Talk:Tokyo Ghoul (5e Class)

I would like anyone to ask before they edit, unless it's a small typo they change. Any balancing issues please mention Balanced(talk) 20:32, 5 November 2017 (MST)

gonna rewrite the whole Kakuja thing to make it easier to understand in the future Balanced (talk) 22:57, 8 November 2017 (MST)

I like the class but two major things pop out to me for balance. Having resistance to almost all non magical damage would be strong as a lvl 20 ability, so getting that at such a low level IMO renders this class unuseable alone. Very few monsters have any kind of magical attack, especially the ones you’d be fighting for most of the game with single digit cr. I think you either need to completely replace the feature or rework it so you maybe gain one of the three, or you use RC cells to use it for every bit of damage you negate. Not entirely sure. Also I believe the transformation should have a duration, unless I am just missing one. Probably around one minute. If I don’t get some kind of response by July I’ll make those changes. I also think you may want to bump up the crit negation cost by 1 or 2 but that one is more just opinion. Balanced

Ayan(talk) --71.186.237.96 16:12, 19 June 2019 (MDT)

6/4/2024 Rewrite

With the large number of rough, though not necessarily bad, edits to this page recently, I figured I'd return to this page and sand out some of the roughness this page has always had. Below is a list of changes I made and their justifications:

• Throughout: a lot of newer features lacked capitalization, some used "level X" wording instead of "Xth level" (and some pre-existing early features lacked it at all) or used third person instead of second person.
• Hunger: previous starvation description could easily be read as flavor text, replaced with going berserk. Flavor text of wearing a mask isn't a necessary part of the feature, so it was removed.
• RC Cells: reworded to use the same mechanical phrasing as a monk's Ki points. "Eating a small amount a human flesh" was both needlessly restrictive to traditional settings (why only humans?) and vague, changed to 1 lb. of humanoid flesh. A Medium+ humanoid would definitely be worth way more than two small amounts, and absolutely more than 2 lbs., so the section was removed for redundancy.
• Spider Movement: moved to after RC Cells in accordance with the table. 5e uses walking speed, not ground speed. Removed "without keeping its hands free", as this seems to be a holdover from Spider Climb, which only states so as it is an exception. 1st level ghouls do not have a Kagune, so mentions of it were moved to the Kagune feature.
• Regeneration: standardizing how many hit points are regained, since 2nd level ghouls don't have a Kagune. As far as I can tell, only Rinkaku Kagune are stated to have any special regeneration, so it was incorporated into the Rinkaku subclass.
• Thick Skin: reworded to use the same mechanical phrasing as a barbarian's unarmored defense, reverting name to Unarmored Defense as that is what 5e calls this kind of feature.
• Monstrous Bite: reworded to use the same mechanical phrasing as a Volo's Guide lizardfolk player. Beyond that, this feature's wording is kind of an enigma to me. "your teeth are considered a natural weapon in this proficiency" what proficiency (is this stating you have proficiency in your natural weapons, which is a part of 5e's core rules)? Original wording dealt damage of no type without an attack or saving throw. Being able to "chew and break almost any material" is vague to the point of flavor text, and shouldn't the damage you deal represent this? "you can attempt a try hard to try to hold on to something or someone with your teeth" is word salad.
• Kagune: reworded to use the 5e Class Preload's subclass wording. The system of percentages Kagune had were needlessly complicated, and 5e typically only halves or doubles, so instead Kagune cost RC Cells to extend, making breaking one costly instead of timely. Consequently, Kagune no longer cost RC Cells to maintain, which I consider superior than only being able to use it for 2.5 rounds. Also simplifying Chimera rules using multisubclassing. Subclasses received a massive overhaul, since any player making 8 attacks every turn massively slows down gameplay.
• Even Thicker Skin: renaming to Thick Skin. A flat AC bonus from a feature grants the possibility to break bounded AC (1st level fighter + 3rd level ghoul can easily get 23 AC). Instead, this feature grants damage reduction, which is more accurate to what we see without being excessively powerful like full resistance or immunity.
• Extreme Recovery: this class already has a mechanical representation for ghoul regeneration, so this feature should build off of it instead of introducing completely separate mechanics. Moved to 6th level to remove an errant ASI (unless we're going full fighter, ASIs should only be every 4 levels).
• Inhuman Strength: improperly stated the effects of the Powerful Build feature and did so twice. It was also kinda weak for an 11th level feature.
• Extra Attack: cutting down into a typical 5e extra attack alongside Kagune changes.
• Deadly Strikes: jumping straight from critting on a 20 to 18-20 is a big jump, so I'm splitting it across 2 features.
• Deceptive: wholly replaced with a Kagune feature. Not only would Kagune feel a little limited as a subclass with only 3 (somewhat overpacked) features, but Deceptive demands that you roleplay one specific way and mechanically binds how the DM can roleplay NCPs.
• Incognito: like Deceptive, this feature demands that your character is trying to hide (if you wanna play a sneaky ghoul, multiclass into rogue a little).
• Die Hard: like Monstrous Bite, how this feature is meant to play exactly is kind of an enigma to me. Features typically regain use at the end of a long rest, not "every 48 hours". What is the "-5" in "when you drop to 0 hit points down to -5" in reference to (if hit points, 5e doesn't do negative hit points)? I have no idea what "your kagune for 48 hours will be considered to level 5" is trying to say. In "you can use the regeneration skill", Regeneration is a feature (skills are what you make skill checks with). "for the cost in RC is doubled and you will only be able to heal yourself up to 15 hit points but only if you have not already used the other skill of this trait and when you return with at least 1 hit point you gain 1 point of fatigue" is entirely word salad with only the vaguest implication of 5e's mechanics.