Talk:Time Mage (3.5e Class)

You'd be better off with a wizard

This class does nothing that a wizard doesn't already do better. As far as power goes it's pretty bad. It doesn't say what sort of action Distort is but I'm guessing it's standard, in which case it totally sucks. Surgo 18:29, 15 September 2008 (MDT)

OK, how do you think that I can improve it? -Sarrow 18:32, 15 September 2008 (MDT)

I honestly think this is a Warlock (DnD Class) (will be up in about 3 minutes) with the Time sphere and Time-related powers instead of fiend-related powers. But for more specific advice: you need to look at the list of monsters that the Time Mage will be fighting at every level, from 1 to 20. Then you need to ask "what is my class doing that will allow him to fight these monsters?" Surgo 18:37, 15 September 2008 (MDT)

Should I give it more uses of its abilities, what? -Sarrow 18:39, 15 September 2008 (MDT)

You have to ask yourself if the abilities are enough for the Time Mage to be competitive with the monsters of its CR. Currently the answer is pretty much always 'no'. That means their abilities need to be more hardcore. Surgo 18:41, 15 September 2008 (MDT)

So what can I do to improve the abilities? You say that it is not strong enough, but you so far have just said that it is not strong enough, nothing about how to improve it. -Sarrow 18:43, 15 September 2008 (MDT)

Look at the monsters that the Time Mage has to fight at every level of play. The Time Mage should be able to beat about 50% of them by himself, and lose to about 50% of them by himself (which is approximately what the Rogue does). The abilities need to reflect that. No, it's not easy; that's part of the reason writing good classes is hard. Surgo 18:46, 15 September 2008 (MDT)

OK, so I added some more offensive abilities to the choices for the Time Mastery ability. I am going to increase the duration of most of the time mages abilities. If there is something else you think that I can do please inform me. -Sarrow 15:45, 16 September 2008 (MDT)

Dex based?

I jsut want to know why you chose DEX as a primary Stat for this class from what i have read this is a Warlock based class which is a caster so if you ask me a mental stat would be better for the fell INT to show study into time space controll CHA to show the inurt controll over time and space in the charaters body WIS can also be used but that also dose not fell right if you ask me about a Warlock style class. -thed9984 16:33, 21 January 2009 (CST

Well I guess the first reason was the connection of Dexterity and the idea speed, agility, and the quickness of a creature. I chose it because Dex is movement, this is shown with the Max Dex bonus and spell failure of armor due to the restriction of movement.

I also felt that it would be a nice little mix up from the norm, a spell caster is usually viewed as weak and fragile, compared to other classes due to the lack of HP and usual low physical stats but is strong mentally and viewed as smart, with this I created a spell caster who’s spells are not based on study, faith, or innate talent, but rather on the ability to cast their spells with the manipulation of their body with movement and gestures based on dexterity.

I guess you could say that a Time Mage uses their own movement and manipulation of their body to cast their spells rather than their mind. About the Warlock based statement, I didn't really base it off of the Warlock, but more of the idea of a caster without the spells.

If you would rather use a different stat, then be my guest and use that instead. -Sarrow 15:15, 22 January 2009 (MST)

from a players viewpoint

The Time Mage is a really cool Class, and it takes a really good DM to make it work right. So far I love the Dex bonus because as I was making my character I wanted a character who would move fast enough it would appear as though he was manipulating time without having to make a bunch of in house rules to really do it. The Time Mage provides great equality as far as power and weakness. It's strengths balance its weaknesses very well, the time regression works great for getting out of a sticky situation and the teleport simply adds to the already great speed.

I have a level 7 Time Mage currently, and although he only has 13 hit points ( he has a minus 2 mod on con ) he is more than capable of getting out of sticky situations by predicting what will happen and being sure to get out of the way. This class is purely support with a few offensive capabilities purely for long range, nothing suggests otherwise and so no one should really try to make it into a close combat kind of class.

Thank you for this statement, I am glad that someone likes the class. I currently have a player in my campaign that is playing the class and is enjoying it herself. -Sarrow 13:56, 11 February 2009 (MST)

I've enjoyed the thought of having a character manipulate time in more ways than the PH has ever really accommodated for. Now that I'm finally playing one the possibilities are endless! I particularly enjoy using my character as a spy to retrieve information and simply using the Run Feat i can multiply my distance and move 200 feet per round! It's a wonderful thing that you put the speed bonuses in there because they fit perfectly along with making the class a Dex based character. Overall I really enjoy using your class, the only suggestion I have is that since he really isn't a mage and just uses spell like abilities maybe the hit die should be increased. A level 7 character with 13 hp is kinda weak even for a person in the background.

Yeah, one of the reasons for this is balancing but I am sure that increasing it to a d6 wouldn't hurt it to bad.-Sarrow 22:00, 11 February 2009 (MST)

Quotes of a Time Mage

This may not be "constructive" but I've noticed on other classes they have quotes from characters of the class and as a Time Mage I figured I'd lay some down for you.

"It's ok, go on, I've got time."

"Oh shit.<pops backwards in time> DUCK!"

"This might take some time."

Kronomas Trixvindellious Grey Elven Time Mage

I always liked one used by our group's Time Mage: "I'll do it yesterday." - Reyomneztak

Usage Limitation

If I'm reading it right, you have no listed usage limitation on distort. Given the time mage's relative lack of offensive abilities, I might suggest a 1d4 round refractory period, like a dragon's breath weapon. -- Jota 12:36, 22 February 2009 (MST)

It is modeled after the Warlock's Eldritch Blast from Complete Arcane. The Warlock can use it any number of times without limitation. -Sarrow 23:13, 22 February 2009 (MST)

Even so, I think it would be best to state that in the ability descriptor, for clarity's sake. -- Jota 21:50, 23 February 2009 (MST)

O.K. will do, I pretty much just copied it how the Warlock's Eldritch Blast was writen so I didn't think to much about that. -Sarrow 14:10, 24 February 2009 (MST)

Rating

Power - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because I like the class but a couple of the abilities seem overpowered. The amount of times per day that some abilities like haste are usable with even a decent Charisma score is scary. Perhaps removing the Charisma component would work. Also I think some of the Time Mastery Powers need a minimum level requirement. My main example is that you have allowed the use of a 9th level Psionic power at level 3, which just seems outright broken. I know it has an xp component, but still. --193.61.234.13 02:34, 12 March 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it is all worded well grammatically. --193.61.234.13 02:34, 12 March 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because the first part is well done, but there is no Epic Progression. --193.61.234.13 02:34, 12 March 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because I really like the idea behind the class. As a player I'm going to suggest it in my next game. But as a DM I prefer High Fantasy as opposed to sci-fi. --193.61.234.13 02:34, 12 March 2009 (MDT)

Although it does not state a level requirement, which I may just do, it does state that it can be used so many times per day based on your level.

Example: Time Regression (Ps): The time mage can use the Time Regression power 1/day for every eight class levels. His/her manifester level equals his/her class level.

You can use it once a day per eight class levels, I intended this to mean that if you are below 8th level you can use it 0/day, you can still take it at a lower level, just not use it untill you are 8th level, and then only 1/day.

Time Stop

For a lvl 20 character a single Ability score of 34 (18 base, +5 fourth lvl increases, +5 Magic Tome, +6 Enhancement item) for a +12 modifier is easily doable. Assuming I read it right, at lvl 20 a Time Mage can use Time Stop for 14-20 rounds at a time, and can do it 13 times/day. Does that not seem a little overpowered. Now true they may not be able to do much (assuming they can't use Distort to harm people), but if they pull a big Use Magic Device modifier, thats a hell of a lot of buffing/debuffing/healing time. Of course it's your class to do with as you wish, but I personally was considering playing one and I know my DM will block once he sees this ability. --Tarrasque 16:24 17 March 2009 (MDT)

I never really though about that. But the amount of time that the time mage can use the ability is not that much stronger than the sorcerers, with a 34 Cha, ability to use it, 7d4+7 rounds (using all 7 spell slots for this spell) for a total of 14-35 rounds total. Now the number of times per day, that is a little high.

How about this, you can use time stop a total number of rounds equal to 10 + your Dex mod a day, these can be used spread out during the day as you see fit, sorta like the paladins lay on hands works. Activating this ability is a swift action.

If this doesn't work, do you have any suggestions for limiting this ability but not limiting to much to the point of useless. -Sarrow 14:02, 17 March 2009 (MDT)

That seems reasonable. I'll put it forward to my DM and see what he thinks. --Tarrasque 16:24 17 March 2009 (MDT)

Well good luck, I hope that you enjoy playing the class. -Sarrow 11:18, 18 March 2009 (MDT)

Completely Broken Ability

I started to look through the class again now that it's been improved, and I noticed "Stop". This ability is completely broken because it doesn't offer a save; as it is now you can put one opponent down out of an entire combat with no save allowed. At level 6. Argh! Surgo 21:12, 21 April 2009 (MDT)

That may seem broken. But it requires a touch attack to hit first and when the creature is stopped it is invulnerable to damage as the Time Stop spell which this feature is derived from, just a more focused version.

“

While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends.

”

This means that when stopped you really can't do anything to them and they cant do anything to you. You can't even remove or destroy the targets equipment.

“

You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession.

”

-Sarrow 12:17, 22 April 2009 (MDT)

It doesn't even matter if you can't affect them with spells or attacks, the point is that you just completely took one guy out of the entire combat with no save. It's part of the standard divide and conquer strategy of D&D only, unlike the rest of the Divide and Conquer abilities, there's no save for this one. Surgo 13:00, 22 April 2009 (MDT)

OK, well they are not out of the combat. When the effect ends they act as normal again. I really don't see how this is broken. It requires you to make a touch attack, which means you have to touch them, then hit their touch AC, then they are frozen in place for a couple of rounds, on average no more than 1 min. I really don't see how this would need a save. If you could give me a reason for needing a save besides saying that it does need it then I will give it a save, which would mean that if you are to use this ability and hit and then they make their save, you have completely wasted a turn, a use of the ability, and are now in melee while not being a melee strong class. -Sarrow 14:39, 22 April 2009 (MDT)

A minute is 10 rounds. How long does your average combat last again? Yeah, they're out of the combat. As far as adding a save, I'd suggest making it usable at a range if a save is allowed as to not make the ability suck. Surgo 14:42, 22 April 2009 (MDT)

Well based on my experiences and what wizards has stated from test play, is that the average creature has a life span of 5 rounds, and if there are more than 2 creatures in the combat then that would be more than a minute.

I don't know how long your average combat last but mine as a DM and a player of over 10 years has lasted over 1 min more often then not. But that of course could be contributed to well thought out NPCs and events that take place, so as to not end the combat instantly. I have played in games where the combat lasts 2-3 sessions of 4-5 hours each in real life and close to a half hour in game.

You can use it at a range, there is a Time Mastery ability for that titled Distant Time. As for this ability sucking, I really don't understand you, one minute you say that it is way overpowered then you say that it sucks. Which is it? It can't suck and be way overpowered, sucking implies that it is no good or not worth having/taking. -Sarrow 14:38, 23 April 2009 (MDT)

What I meant was if you give it a save, but leave it otherwise as-is, it's going to suck (as opposed to being way too good, as it is right now). If you end up giving it a save, it should be usable at a range from when you first get it, to keep it worthwhile. Also, when I say "how long does the average combat last" I meant "how long does the average combat last in this edition of Dungeons & Dragons", which has certainly not been out for over 10 years. (3.0 came out in 2003, which is 6 years ago, and 3.5 (probably about the same combat length, but different abilities) came out in 2005, which is 4 years ago.) Surgo 14:40, 23 April 2009 (MDT)

What? 3ed came out in 2000, almost 10 years ago, and 3.5ed came out in 2003. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%26D#Wizards_of_the_Coast) OK, well anyways, I think I am done debating and will change it as well as Slow to have a range of 30 ft. and require a save. -Sarrow 14:50, 23 April 2009 (MDT)

Wow, I can't read. Good catch, you're totally right -- it's been 9 years and 6 years, respectively. Surgo 14:53, 23 April 2009 (MDT)

It's all good. I do really appreciate your opinion, I just don't care for it when people state that they want change, but don't say how or why. After giving it a little thought and looking at a different perspective, the change might be better. Although my players that have used it have never had a problem with it. -Sarrow 14:57, 23 April 2009 (MDT)

Regen Hello there, I'm somewhat new to this wiki-thing so bear with me. I've got a question to either the auther of this class or someone who's played it before, as I'm DMing a campaign with a player with this class, and whould like some assistance.

First off, I have a question about the Regen abailty of the Time Mage. When cast, you give a charater (on advrage, assumeing a +5 Mod, fairly obtainable by level 8-10) Fast Healing 5 for 13 rounds, witch is then useable 6 times per day. That's a advrage of 65 hp healed per casting, and 390 points of possible healing per day. The closest thing I can find that compares to this is the Vigor spell from Complete Divine, witch heals 2 per round. Cure Critical Wounds (a cleric spell of around the same level) heals on advrage, 28, assumeing a 10th level caster.

In my campain, I have a Time Mage, and I have ruled that, he may still use his Regen..but as a out of combat tool only (somewhat like 4e's healing surge system, but lacting a full rest of spells for the mage in the party and other dailys. My problem comes from the fact that, since the party is approching 10th level, one of the players (the Favored Soul) left the game..and was replaced by someone else playing a Fighter..who has no intrest in healing. Now, there only sourse of In-combat healing are potions...witch they have now been spending the majority of there money on.

My question to you all is: Is Regen as overpowered as I'm seeing it? And if it isn't, would it be a adiquite replacement for a healer-type charater? --Roqua 09:03, 31 March 2012 (MDT)

Mage?

A time MAGE would be a mage class that specializes in time, such as the base class being wizard or Sorcery. This would imply they would require the appropriate CHA or INT. In which case Perhaps a bonus to time related spells and/or spell list augmented with the "specials" listed simply as bonus freebies to their spell lists. Distort looks like it is at least in part patterned after magic missile using time distortion instead of force. Unless this is perhaps intended as a Prestige class then a prime requirement to have a "mage" prestige class would be to have arcane casting ability. I think this needs clarification as to the source of power, arcane, psionic, or perhaps time lord(innate ability, bloodline as in racial advancement) and then cleaned up based on the clarification of source and countering effects. (Honorlord (talk) 09:52, 15 February 2014 (MST))

Rating

Power - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because when used correctly as a scout or backup until higher levels the Time Mage can easily outrun and outmaneuver opponents while dealing massive damage from a distance with their distort ability. --173.245.55.92 21:48, 9 August 2012 (MDT)

Wording - 2/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because much of the wiki is still in development and the class has been around quite a while, some abilities leave much to be decided by the GM. --173.245.55.92 21:48, 9 August 2012 (MDT)

Formatting - 2.5/5 I give this class a 2.5 out of 5 because several abilities are simply copied and pasted from other classes, and there is little to help with epic level characters. --173.245.55.92 21:48, 9 August 2012 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because if used correctly this character can influence an entire campaign, my own character became a God, the God of time no less, it all comes down to how you play your character and how creative your players are. --173.245.55.92 21:48, 9 August 2012 (MDT)