Talk:The Wisdomancer (3.5e Optimized Character Build)

Wis to AC

Swordsages only get Wis to AC in light armor (not in no armor) while monks only get Wis to AC in no armor (not in light armor) so you can't really get wis to AC twice that way, unfortunately. --Ghostwheel 12:28, 12 August 2009 (MDT)

Though you could get a double wis bonus to AC by taking ninja levels and then get the mnk/nnja multiclassing feat from complete scoundrel, or atleast then stack. --DizzyHobo

Ninja says specifically that it doesn't stack with the monk wis bonus to AC. --Ghostwheel 12:33, 12 August 2009 (MDT)

Ofcoarse, but there is a feat in Complete scoundrel that makes them stack.--DizzyHobo

Ascetic Stalker? Read it again, it only makes the levels stack for Ki Pool and unarmed damage+ki strike. --Ghostwheel 12:58, 12 August 2009 (MDT)

Stats Breakdown

Not really looking too optimized atm--sure, you get wis to lots of stuff, but just that on its own doesn't really make an optimized build. Could you make a breakdown of stats and damage by, say, level 10, so we can see how well it fulfills the damage-dealer role? (Doesn't seem to have any way of forcing enemies to target it, so doesn't really work well as a defender-type.) --Ghostwheel 12:32, 12 August 2009 (MDT)

Alrighty, let's look at what we have here now that the stats are up; we want at the minimum 25 DPR when attacks are weighted against an AC of 25.

So let's break it down; Wis = 18 (Base) + 2 (level) + 2 (Exalted) = 22

Attack: 9 (BAB) + 6 (Shiba Protector) + 6 (Intuitive Attack) + 2 (Exalted) = +23/+17

Damage: 5.5 (1d10 Average) + 6 (Shiba Protector) + 2 (Exalted) + 1 (Sanctified Martial Strike) - 1 (Strength) = 13.5 Damage

DPR = 13.5 * (19/20) + 13.5 * (14/20) = 12.825 + 9.45 = 22.275

Unfortunately, not quite yet up to par, since the minimum an unoptimized build focusing on damage should be doing around 25 DPR, twice that for more optimized builds that focus on damage. --Ghostwheel 15:41, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

Hey all

I reread the Sword Sage, you guys were right. I changed him around a little bit. He's quite a bit more optimized now compared to a normal Monk or Paladin. However, the Character Really comes into his own when he gets the big boosts to his Wisdom.

If you've done it right, you'll have 30 wisdom, 24 Con, and the rest don't even matter.

You can take Superior Unarmed Strike to max out your fisty-punch damage, and Improved Natural Attack to boost it to 4d8.

So when it comes down to it, you're looking at (Without Spells, And without Smite Evil)

+43/+43/+43/+38/+33/+28
4d8+15

Alrighty, let's check it out at level 20:

Wisdom: 18 (Base) + 5 (Level) + 8 (Exalted) = 31 (+10)

Attack: 19 (BAB) + 10 (Shiba Protector) + 10 (Intuitive Attack) + 5 (Exalted) - 2 (Flurry) = +42/+42/+37/+32/+28

Damage: 18 (4d8 Base unarmed) + 10 (Shiba Protector) + 5 (Unarmed Damage) + 1 (Sanctified) - 1 (Strength) = 33

DPR: 33 + 33 + 33 * 18/20 + 33 * 13/20 + 33 * 8/20 = 33 + 33 + 29.7 + 21.45 + 13.2 = 130.35

Much better at this level, looks like it finally comes into its own--though any type of DR based on a material rather than alignment will quickly reduce this build's damage by a sizable amount, something which you might want to add in the limitations of this build. Another big limitation is anything with flight or good mobility.

Remember that Ascetic Knight doesn't stack levels for flurry, and I'd remove that this build is versatile, since it basically just works on flurrying virtually every round. --Ghostwheel 15:49, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

All those levels of Paladin

The base for this build is Paladin 2 / Monk 1 / Shiba Protector 1, right? Or if we don't care about wis to saves, we could even ditch Paladin 2, but we'll forget about that for a moment. Why not take Psychic Warrior (or Ardent) instead of all those levels of Paladin, or enter the Warmind PrC along with Tashalatora (Secrets of Sarlona) to make those levels stack with the monk ones for unarmed strike damage, AC bonus, and flurry? Psionic powers and interesting class features are far tastier than the dead levels that the Paladin is full of. --Ghostwheel 15:56, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

Argent fist

Have you though of taking levels in Argent fist from Faiths of Eberron?

Well to put it bluntly

This build was meant to optimize a near Pure Paladin/Monk Build. There are a plethora of prestige classes that would suffice to improve upon the build. The Argent Fist is a very good example of this. I meant for this build to be something that one could slip past the DM. It's easy enough to build off of the first few levels of this build using more books. But A DM is more likely to accept a character with a few feats out of one book and a class from another than a 5x Multi-Classer with feats from six different books.

Except as it is, this build is on the very lowest end of what would be "optimized", DR killing its damage completely. Someone can always replace everything with Paladin if they wanted to, but as a build you should try to assume that most things are allowed--after all, you're using material from both a 3rd party source (Dragon Compendium) and a 3.0 book (Oriental Adventures). Someone can always replace everything with Paladin, but as a build you should assume that things are allowed IMO. --Ghostwheel 21:15, 13 August 2009 (MDT)

Without being a anthropomorphic bat, you are not a wisdomancer. :P

Combat Expertise

Need 13 Int to qualify for that. --Ghostwheel 00:43, 3 September 2009 (MDT)

Combat Expertise is still counted as a lvl 1 feat and as well as a monk 1 feat --Temennigru

Missing Exalted Deeds

You missed out on all but one of the exalted deeds that vow of poverty gives you. Perhaps you should suggest some that are relevant to the build (Stunning fist would be a good choice) --Temennigru

Templates

The Saint template (BoED:185) gives you Wis-to-AC, as well as +2 Wis, +2 Con and +4 Cha, scaling DR, fast healing and tons of other stuff at the low cost of LA+2. Perhaps you should incorporate it into the build. --Temennigru