Talk:The Game (3.5e Flaw)

Winning 'The Game'

If the point of the game is for everybody in The Multiverse to start playing, then when everybody is playing the game wouldn't everybody win?--Vrail 16:48, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

There is no way to win the game. The game will never end. Are you familiar with this joke's origins? --Badger16:56, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

No, I'm not familiar with its origins, however you did not answer my question, you just avoided it by reiterating what was on the page. Please answer my question. The fact that it can never be won, but it has a completable objective is a paradox. :)--Vrail 17:02, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I think that point should probably be removed, or reworded. The objective is to not lose the game (however, that's impossible since the game never ends, you're bound to think of it sooner or later). Here is the wikipedia article on the topic. In most variations of the game everyone is playing the game already (whether or not they know about it). --Badger 17:39, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, that's just the POINT of the game, not how you WIN it. There IS no way to WIN it, but there is a way (albeit a very long, very arduous way) to accomplish the POINT. Make sense?

No, not really, whats the difference between the point and the objective (i.e how to win)? Anyways, either way this could confuse players looking at the page, whether it's meant like that or not, so rewording it I would agree is a good idea. :)--Vrail 23:13, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Winning something and establishing the objective of something are different things entirely. And, do you have any idea how HARD it would be to get everyone in the multiverse to start playing once you start throwing in alternate cosmologies? First, you have to take care of the umpteen-billion intelligent creatures on the Material Plane, and then the massive amounts of petitioners and outsiders on the other planes, and the elementals, and the deities in this cosmology alone, which is essentially 10^100 times the number of the intelligent creatures on the material plane. Now, multiply this by whatever number of alternate cosmologies you would use and add in the fact that every day there are over one thousand children born on the material planes and the other planes develop new outsiders, along with the factors of awakened/incarnated constructs, awakened plants and animals, and people with multiple personalities. Now, multiply this by whatever number of alternate cosmologies you would use, and you have... a veritable infinity. As such, you almost cannot get everyone in the multiverse to start playing the game, as you cannot conquer infinity. Really, this is a greek-mythology worthy punishment rather than an achievable objective, since there's an infinite wave of new people just getting popped out as the world goes on. The idea of this game is not to lose and to cause as many people as you can to start playing it. -- PokeDM

Two things. One being, when you begin teaching it to people, tell them to teach it to as many people as they can. You will soon get a number multiplying exponentially, over the period of a single decade of exponential expansion per day your veritable infinity could be covered twice over. Now take into the account that every parent will teach their children the game, and your done. You can also design some sort of epic spell of mass suggestion to supplement this number greatly. Therefore this objective is theoretically completable.

Second, that does not address at all what I said, I said that this could be confusing to others as it was to me and should be reworded. Please make sure you respond to what I actually say if your going to make a response. :)--Vrail 01:07, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Vrail, you may be the only person on the internet that's never heard of The Game. Let me try (and fail) to get a working metaphor here:

• The point of basketball is to score as many points as you can.
  • The point of The Game is to make as many people play as you can.
• In basketball, you want to allow as few points as possible.
  • In The Game, you want to "lose" the game as few times as possible.
• A basketball game ends when the time runs out, and a winner is determined.
  • The Game ends when the time runs out, and a winner is determined.
• A basketball game lasts 4 12 minute quarters. (NBA rules here. USA! USA!)
  • The Game lasts forever

Does that help at all? --Badger 01:08, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Lol, that does help somewhat, thanks. Obviously your metaphor worked better than you thought. :)--Vrail 01:11, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

And I wrote that whole shtick for nothing...

Lol, not for nothing, it was an interesting read. :D--Vrail 01:23, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

I added another aspect of the metaphor, I think that should clear up any last confusions. --Badger 01:24, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

←Reverted indentation to one colon

What happens when time ends? The game according to your metaphor ends when time ends, so therefore when time ends the game is over and according to your metaphor a winner is determined.--Vrail 01:49, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

You're back in the game, until you lose again, and then you wait ten rounds, and then you're back in, and the cycle repeats.

I would assume so, however my point is that if the game ends when time ends, and therefore a winner is determined, you can win the game and that rule is untrue.--Vrail 20:42, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, if you live to armageddon. With this, the time ends at the end of time. Also known as when Wizards of the Coast goes out of business and you quit playing D&D. So, the character technically "won", but it's pointless, since the whole thing's over. Also, one thing about the Game is that it goes on forever.

Except the flaw says that it can't be won, only lost. So this must be changed, because as you have just admitted it can be won, at the end of time.--Vrail 19:43, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

I think you are thinking about this too hard. Once you've played the Game you'll understand. JazzMan 19:54, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm, play a game that you can only loose and is counted as a flaw in DnD... Seems kinda defeatist to start playing it doesn't it? :P--Vrail 19:55, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Let us know. You are now playing the game. --Badger 20:31, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

How did that happen? Can I quite?--Vrail 20:55, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Nope, once you start, you're playing for good. -- PokeDM

you guys have it all wrong. its a common missconseption that you "can only lose the game." thats just not true. the point to the game and the only known way to end the game is to make the chathoic pope admit that he in fact lost the game. lo theday when that comes. just saying.

There is no catholicism in D&D. Your argument is invalid. 69.247.138.127 14:53, 18 August 2010 (MDT)