Talk:Spider, Monstrous Specific (3.5e Template)

Cool Concept

I like the concept, but there are definitely a few chinks in the armor. The first thing is that Strong Poison is too powerful. It is hard to find anything give higher than +2 to a DC, so +5 is rather large (just look at the poison DC of a huge spider). Really I'd make the DC increase by 2, but also increase the die type by one category (d3 to d4, d10 to d12, etc).

With the strong webs I'd do the same thing except keep the HP increase at +4. They also don't have Damage Reduction -- they have hardness (which is effectively the same thing except for objects).

What does "Spit Gum" do? What about "Walk on Water" (which is more obvious)? "Light Blindness"?

I would reduce the net throwing to 4/day because otherwise there isn't much of a disadvantage to using it (there is always more to spare). That will like it up better with web spinning.

I don't see why a Dragline spider would be a better jumper than hunters. But the only one with dragline I see is also a hunter. Does it get a +22 to jump checks? I'd seperate the jump check bonus and make a trait called "Jumper" with a +10 to jump checks.

Maybe give the water walker a water version of tremorsense?

What is the advantage to a funnel web? These are "trap-door spiders" correct? I'd have it have some sort of trap to it that will have people slip and get entangled in some sort of sheet web at the opening of the funnel. Then the spider can attack from inside and come out later to munch the victim.

I will look at balancing individual spiders later :)

--Aarnott 12:47, 18 July 2007 (MDT)

Thanks. I have sorted those things. No, the funnel web spider is not a trapdoor spider but a different genera altogether (the italic names on the table are genera). The funnel web is now camoflaged (so people don't see it) and is adheisive in the same way a web is. That might sort it. A jumping spider is better at jumping because the genera is adapted to be better at jumping. Fun Fact: Jumping spiders can jump up to 14 times their body loength, but the D&D rules don't allow them to do so, but a very high level rogue (epic) could theoredically jump 70ft with one jump. Where is the sense in that? Sam Kay 14:28, 18 July 2007 (MDT)

With 3.0 rules and a few errors on interpretation from the DM (regarding doublings and stacking of effects), I figured out a way to have a Thriri-Kreen (MM II) jump somewhere around 600 feet per jump :) at level 8 (I think it was). Somewhere in the rules it said something about not being able to jump farther than your move speed though. Back on topic... How exactly does a funnel work? I was imagining a pit in the ground on an angle that the spider sits in. When the victim walks by the pit, the spider strikes (which still inside the pit for protection). Is that right? You can always make jumping spiders unaffected by their height and/or movement speed (so that they could jump insanely far). Jumpers really could have higher than a +10 bonus to jumps as well. Right now, my suggestions are focusing on making the abilities themselves balanced in general (without balancing the spiders). If jumpers get less abilities, +30 to jumps wouldn't be so out of line. Keep in mind they also get a +4 for every 10ft. past 30 ft. they have as a move speed. So on average, a 50ft. moving spider could jump 68 feet with a running start. You could even allow them to jump 2x their check result or more (the cheetah can move 10x it's move speed for a charge). Being able to jump really well is hardly imbalanced. --Aarnott 13:28, 19 July 2007 (MDT)

Oops... I got the name of the web I was refering to mixed up with the funnel web (which, in my defence, is simular). It is realy called a purse web (I have corrected it now). I think a funnel web would just come under trap door. But the purse web is confusing if you have not seen a diagram of it (it doesn't help that I got the names wrong), so I will add a diagram to make things easier. Speaking of spiders, do you think the Spider Rider is ready, then? I am not sure. Thanks for your help! Sam Kay 07:58, 20 July 2007 (MDT)

I'll do a solid look-over of the Spider Rider later today. You seem to be interested in spiders -- I actually have a picture of one that I took on my honeymoon a week ago on the Bruce Peninsula (Southern Canada). I'm pretty sure after reading the stats here it was some sort of hunting spider, because we saw it along a rocky trail near the shoreline. It was really fast and had good camouflage with the surrounding rock (which was really sweet). --Aarnott 08:09, 20 July 2007 (MDT)

Thanks! Yes, I am interested in spiders, since I was 2 or 3.I have just addded the immage, I hope it helps. Sam Kay 08:49, 20 July 2007 (MDT)

LOL! Love the picture. I feel bad for the poor adventurer dude. So the tops of the purse webs are camouflaged so that unsuspecting prey walks on top of them? Does a spider typically sting its prey above or try to draw them inside the purse? --Aarnott 09:30, 20 July 2007 (MDT)

Yeah, the top is camoflaged with small stone, plants etc, and whe the "poor adventurer dude" steps on top, then the spider bites through the web, and then draws them through (repairing the break in the web one the prey is subdued). If the spider is threatened, then it flees into it's burrow. Sam Kay 10:09, 20 July 2007 (MDT)

Balance

So, are there any balance issues with any spider species? --Sam Kay 09:59, 16 August 2007 (MDT)

Not that I can see as of yet -- I'll do a more in depth look in about a week or so... Once school starts that is (classes can be boring). --Aarnott 22:56, 6 September 2007 (MDT)

Thanks! Looking forwards to it! --Sam Kay 08:24, 7 September 2007 (MDT)

Sorry it took so long (school ended up being tough). The first thing to note about any transformation on a creature is to sum up what everything is worth. Is +2 Strength worth more than -10 ft speed, etc. I would like to propose a points system for rating each ability and stat bonus.

• Base monstrous spiders lose throwing nets, spinning webs, and poison. Throwing nets is strong (+2), Poison is strong (+2), spinning webs is decent because it is conditional (+1). So we have about 5 "points" to work with (in my crazy ways). Note that hunters lose throwing nets, but gain 10ft. of speed (+2).
• Strength +2 adds +1 to hit and +1 to damage. Not all that great for the larger spiders, but really good for the smaller ones. (+1). +4 Strength would also be (+2). -2 Strength is really (-1).
• -10 ft. is not nearly as bad to lose as -2 strength, and it isn't as bad to lose as +10ft is a s good to gain. (-1)
• Lycosidae has +1 abilities. Doesn't really warrant a +2. (+1)
• Aquatic -- conditional. (+1)
• Trap door is really powerful with a DC 30 spot check. (+2)
• Light Blindness (-1)
• Purse Web -- similar to a trap door (+2)
• Net Casting (+2) as base spiders
• Walk on Water -- Jesus, but conditional (+0.5)
• Spit Gum -- web spell as a free action? (+2)
• Poison (+2)
• Strong Poison... Hrm. This one is hard between +1 and +2.
• Camouflage (+1 for DC 15), (+2 for higher)
• Dragline (+0.5) -- not really combat specific
• Hunter (+2.5) -- +10 move plus some
• Web (+1)
• Strong Web (+1)
• Pounce (+2) -- powerful

I would suggest you look these over to agree/disagree with me before we start balancing. --Aarnott 11:26, 13 December 2007 (MST)

I think I agree with you. --Sam Kay 12:31, 13 December 2007 (MST)

That makes Lycosidae 5.5, si? Is that ballanced? How much leeway do we have? --Sam Kay 12:40, 13 December 2007 (MST)

I actually was rating all of them by hand (and going to post the table), but I realized you could just reference this page and do it quickly yourself. Also had an edit conflict so I'm just going to post the conclusions I got from rating them. A lot of the hunters are unclear -- do they get 10ft. move plus 10ft. from hunter? I think spiders that are +4 or less should have a CR of 1 lower for spiders large or bigger (they are really just as tough below that). I think that spiders that are +6 or greater should have a CR of +1. That will allow you to not change them (since you thought out what the spider would be like), but still have them balanced. --Aarnott 14:36, 13 December 2007 (MST)

I have had a look through and tried to balance them out (I want them all within 0.5 of normal balance so a Spider Rider could have any of them without being overbalanced), but there where some that I could not sort out without removing important abilities. I have tried to weaken "hunter" to make it either 1.5 or 1. And I recalculated Lycosidae, and it was something like 10. What do you suggest I try? --Sam Kay 08:23, 14 December 2007 (MST)

Lack of spider rules

Sorry about the lack of rules for some spider species: I could not find out what type of spider they where. If anyone knows about spiders without rules, please let me know. --Sam Kay 05:23, 30 August 2007 (MDT)

I will be glad to help, however I do not understand what do you mean "without rules". --Green Dragon 17:58, 6 September 2007 (MDT)

Notice how some rows have "-" in Str, "-" in speed and "-" in special rules (like Pararchaeidae)? Those don't have rules, because I could not find enough about them... I put a question in wikipedia on wikiproject spiders, but no replies yet :(. --Sam Kay 08:27, 7 September 2007 (MDT)

Oh -- I thought the dashes were due to there being no bonus or penalty. --Aarnott 09:21, 7 September 2007 (MDT)

That is what they are for, but ones with nothing in all of their boxes (see Pararchaeidae) have a lack of rules... --Sam Kay 07:02, 8 September 2007 (MDT)

I don't see an option for a tarantula with the ability to throw Urticating hairs, there is also no way to represent a Bolas spider which does not make a web, but swings around a thread of silk with a sticky blob on the end like a, well bola. Those are the only two i know of that are missing. 03:40, 28 November 2015(MDT)

Spider Rider

Why do I get a feeling this will make SPider Riders more dangerous...ShadowyFigure 12:54, 8 February 2008 (MST)

Lack of Stephen Colbert's Spider?!?!

Where is america's favorite Spider[1]

7th row down. Cyrtaucheniidae. they are grouped in families, not individual species. --Sam Kay 07:07, 24 March 2009 (MDT)

K ty must've over looked it. :) D.M.DemonicPanda