Talk:Soul Merchants (5e Race)

In order to justify why this is a race and not a subclass, class or prestige class, let me lay out my rationale for this race. Please point out any misjudgments with my reasoning. I am using Marasmusine's meter to justify my decision making.

• Ability Score increase (as per normal)

• Size - small (no change)

• Speed - 30ft (no change)

• Powerful build (+0.5) This doesn't seem controversial

• Giving Alms - 1 use of a first level spell per day (+0.5)

• Soul Trade + Soul Debt (+1.0) Alright, this is where it gets complicated. So... here we go. This is based on the ranking of the dragonborn's breath weapon as being worth 1.0 points. The breath weapon is usable once between each long or short rest. If it were usable each long rest instead, we could safely double its effect, meaning it did 4d6 damage at first level. This is the same as burning hands cast as second level spell. Ergo, the dragonborn's breath weapon achieves the same effect as being able to cast a spell of 2nd level. At second level we should be able to safely summon (in the same manner as conjure minor elementals) a creature of CR 1/2. Therefore, using these spells as a template, we can posit that a soul merchant can summon (with concentration) a creature of CR 1/2 or less (a shadow) for a duration of one hour. Of course, this ability doesn't scale like the dragonborn's ability- which is why I've allowed its duration to be extended. Technically speaking, since you have to convince a creature to hold the soul trade item for one minute and then wait for it to drop to 0 hit points, this ability is worse than the dragonborn's ability, which can be used at will. Of course you could give it to your own party members, but you then have to wait for them to die in order to benefit from it. This is all part of the creature's roleplaying, of course, so we won't knock off any points from the ability to do it.

• Essence coins (+0.5) The ability to 'freeze' the concentration of a spell is pretty uncharted territory, but the race gets it only at 5th level, so I think it's safe to put it at 0.5

• Merchant's Eye (+1.0) This gives advantage on a lot of abilities, but they're in pretty specific situations, so I put them at 1.0

• Semi-Undead Nature (no change) Because the race is still also a humanoid, this presumably doesn't make much difference.

• Languages (+0.5) One extra language is worth an extra +0.5

So, in total, the race is worth 4.0 points, which is fine, unless I've made some kind of mistake.

WHY THIS IS A RACE: Why a race and not a class? Naturally, I considered this. Mostly, however, it's a flavour thing. Soul merchants didn't start as a series of trait ideas, they started as an idea for a fantastical species- a group of shrouded merchants who buy and sell souls and hunt undead in order to maintain the 'soul standard'- their system of currency. I hope you'll agree that the description of the race is comprehensive. I wanted to create a race that stuck with this idea as closely as possible (Indeed, I had to jettison some ideas along the way), so I created and tried to balance the following race. As I spent a considerable amount of time writing all that flavour, I'm a little reluctant to cut it all and transfer the abilities to a class or subclass.

I hope that all makes sense. Thanks for your time!

How is having the ability to make shadows and maintain multiple shadows worth 1 point on Mara's Meter and how is the ability to generate gold from such a practise worth 0.5? This is a racial trait... Once again, this is more appropriate as a subclass/class/prestige class. Fluff and flavor can be reworked as is appropriate, for example, Oath of Conquest paladins descriptor is almost entirely about the Hell Knights of the Nine Hells. —ConcealedLight (talk) 12:26, 18 February 2019 (MST)

Hopefully fixed both of the problems that you named. Now you can't make money from the spirits (in fact you lose 2 gp per spirit) because the the soul trade item shatters after its owner's death. You also can't concentrate on more than one shadow at once, or concentrate on a shadow while you own a shadow statue. Now that you put it like that, a subclass does make sense. The problem with making the merchants a subclass is that I've also created a cleric subclass which soul merchants excel as. I hope I'm not coming across as combative- I really appreciate your suggestions and help.

Abit stubborn about wanting to keep it a race but no more than most, you're alright. As for the changes yes that does somewhat deal with those two mechanical issues. Though there are still a few more like how you're meant to concentrate on this trait and go 8-6 hours a day unconscious as well as how that impacts spellcasters with concentration spells. Going back to the race/class issue, I'm assuming you mean the Debt Domain subclass which reading through it, it could definetly be adjusted to take the racial traits which are outlined here. —ConcealedLight (talk) 10:06, 19 February 2019 (MST)

Think I've fixed the problem of concentration- you can only concentrate on it for one hour bursts- I've removed the 24 hour concentration limit at 3rd level. I've tentatively removed the template, pending review from you. Incidentally, thanks for your help on Wormhearted Ones and Scion of the Old Ones.

Ah, those pages. Yeah, ideally templates should remain while discussion is still taking place of which I still believe intergration with the Debt Domain would be most appropriate. —ConcealedLight (talk) 04:02, 22 February 2019 (MST)

Sorry, not familiar with wiki protocol. Sure I can't convince you to keep it as a race?

It's alright. Unless it was reworked to be so I don't think so as I don't think there is really an eloquent way to do it as a race. —ConcealedLight (talk) 05:02, 22 February 2019 (MST)

Give me a little time, I'll try and fix it.

Take as much as you need, the page won't go anywhere. —ConcealedLight (talk) 05:42, 22 February 2019 (MST)

I've simplified and stripped back the abilities. There were a few flavour sacrifices made, but all in all I -think- it works now. Thoughts?

Yeah, they were good edits. I removed the hit point reduction immunity as that's a class feature and after thinking over the soul debt trait I reworked it to use the find familiar spell. Should be comparatively balanced now to other races. —ConcealedLight (talk) 07:14, 24 February 2019 (MST)