Talk:Shinigami (5e Class)

Concerns

I understand that this class is currently incomplete, but I figure I'd put some issues this page has at the moment.

• The following features do not have any described effects in-game:
  • Zanpakuto
  • Shikai (also, having the limit be optional probably isn't a good idea)
  • Hell Butterfly (not actually that bad, but should definitely say what forms the message can take)
  • Senkaimon (should state the requirements to where they can take you (i.e. why can't I just teleport to the BBEG's throne room and circumvent the entire campaign?))
  • Bankai
  • Bankai Ability
  • Soul Ignition
    • I understand that many of these should be personalized, but guidelines and/or examples should be present.
• The following features do not list what level they are acquired at, or do so incorrectly:
  • Zanpakuto
  • Spirit Sensitivity
  • Shinigami Archetype
  • Reiryoku
  • Shikai

Generally, many features in this class either have an overwhelming amount of fluff to the point that it isn't fun to read, use "per long rest" wording instead of "can be used X number of times, regaining use at the end of a long rest", and generally just seems to outshine every other class. As a base it already seems significantly better than a Fighter at fighting, Stealth Force Operative makes a player a better Rogue and/or Monk, and Battle Master blows a Fighter out of the water. If I were you, I would take a little bit of inspiration from Soul Reaper (5e Class) in most aspects. --Ref3rence (talk) 10:18, 11 September 2020 (MDT)

The squads probably shouldn't be a feature either. From a Bleach lore standpoint, your squad is based on your natural proficiency, not squad-unique training. From a 5e standpoint, classes should represent a group of abilities that can be applied to most settings, and while things like Zanpakuto/Shikai/Bankai/Hell Butterfly/Senkaimon could exist in about any setting, Soul Society does not. --Ref3rence (talk) 13:07, 11 September 2020 (MDT)

Well, myself and my friends that are working on this class have taken your concerns and worked on them. I actually did not know this discussion section was here until after I was already working on finishing up the last feature for the Hollowfied Shinigami Archetype. While looking through your concerns, I started figuring working out several of the mentioned above things. I worked on:

• Zanpakuto
• Spirit Sensitivity
• Shinigami Archetype
• Reiryoku
• Shikai
• Hell Butterfly
• Senkaimon
• Bankai
• Bankai Ability
• Soul Ignition
• Choose Squad moved down as Optional Campaign Feature and completely eliminated as a Feature of the class

I have also been working on fixing the grammar inside of the actual class itself. As for the Shinigami Archetypes, this is a homebrew class. It is meant that by the time they get the more aggressive abilities that they should be encountering lots of higher level enemies, i.e. Beholders, Mind Flayers, Dragons. My friends and I have worked to balance the Archetypes as much as we can with that in mind. --Wes1996 (talk) 2:03, 14 September 2020 (EST)

I really like the direction this class has taken, but Zanpakuto is still very vague. I'd take a look at the warlock's Pact of the Blade or the Zanpakuto from Soul Reaper (5e Class) for how something like this should generally work. Shikai, Bankai, Bankai Ability, and Soul Ignition could still use examples, but the changes made greatly helped. --Ref3rence (talk) 13:58, 14 September 2020 (MDT)

Zanpakuto is actually rather defined on what it does. It is the primary weapon, you have proficiency with it (if you do not have proficiency with the weapon type normally), and you have to have your Zanpakuto to use the features of the class and the archetypes. As for its form, that is a disccussion between player and DM on what form the weapon takes.

I do not know what you mean by examples of Shikai, Bankai, Bankai Ability, and Soul Ignition. However, I will provide examples of inside of the Bleach universe for reference at the end of each ability. --Wes1996 (talk) 17:33, 14 September 2020 (EST)

What I meant was moreso how they would work in-game. For instance, released Zabimaru grants your Zanpakuto +X ft., which is increased with Hihoi Zabimaru, and Soou Zabimaru (Soul Ignition) allows for one to reduce their Zanpakuto's reach for additional damage. Anyone can find an example on the Bleach wiki, but having a page creator adapt it in-game is much more helpful. Sorry for the confusion. I would suggest 3 or more examples as well, but that's just my rule of thumb for player options. --Ref3rence (talk) 15:31, 14 September 2020 (MDT)

I see what you mean about the in-game example. However, it is a bit hard to fully give examples when the ability is based on the player's ideas and a DM approval system. Thinking about Captain Commander Yamamoto's and Ichigo Kurosaki's abilities, I do not believe a DM would approve them due to how overpowered the Getsuga Tensho can be, especially when upgraded through the Hollow Mask, and how absolutely broken Yamamoto's entire Zanpakuto is.-- Wes1996 (talk) 17:38, 14 September 2020 (EST)

The point is to at least give any players using this class an idea of the types of abilities that can be used, and choices for the less creative ones. There's also nothing saying that abilities like Ryūjin Jakka or Zangetsu have to be exactly as powerful as they are in the manga, and if anything there's a duty that comes with adapting something from another work to nerf things like these (there's a reason none of the saiyan-based classes multiply your physical ability scores by x50 while in Super Saiyan). I would seriously recommend looking at Soul Reaper (5e Class), I know I've been harping on that for a while, but it seriously resolves exactly what you're talking about. --Ref3rence (talk) 16:54, 14 September 2020 (MDT)

I have given examples of gameplay versions. However, considering that Bankai is just for the look that will be there for when you access Bankai Ability later, some of the examples for them are not as good as they could be. Also, I have looked over that class before. While I admit that it is a complete class, I saw the examples that were put at the bottom. I didn't read them because there was a rather large text wall for examples. -- Wes1996 (talk) 21:05, 14 September 2020 (EST)