Talk:Shadowdancer, Tome (3.5e Prestige Class)

Dayum

I'm debating the abilities. I don't have any objection to the various shadow-themed mobility abilities. It's a Shadowdancer, after all. And Shadow Strike and the Mirrorshard Blade get a pass, given the damage. One question: I take it as given that a Shadowdancer can Sneak Attack with a Mirrorshard, but can he do it with a Shadow Strike? It's what the Shadowdancer should be. I like! I'll rate sometime when I've got the leisure to be thorough. --Genowhirl 19:28, 6 April 2009 (MDT)

Yes, you can sneak attack with your Shadow Strike. Surgo 19:35, 6 April 2009 (MDT)

Thank you, Surgo. --Genowhirl 19:42, 6 April 2009 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because while the abilities might look overpowered at first, they are in fact very balanced and allow the class to be both flavorful and mechanically powerful without overshadowing other classes. The only things that concern me are Greater Teleport at will, Shadow Walk at will, and that Phantasmal Image fools even True Seeing. If these were changed, I'd probably give it a 5/5. However, these are not the core characteristics of the class, which is well-balanced. --Ghostwheel 03:42, 21 July 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the abilities are worded well and are understandable at first glance. --Ghostwheel 03:42, 21 July 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the page appears to be formatted correctly. --Ghostwheel 03:42, 21 July 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the class has great flavor, and is what the DMG Shadowdancer should have been. --Ghostwheel 03:42, 21 July 2009 (MDT)

Do Want / Rating

The Shadowdancer in the 3.5e DMG always seemed rather lacking to me, and I personally can't wait to beg my DM to let me give this one a shot.

Power: 4/5 Personally I would swap "Shadow Slide" with either "Darkness" or "Hide in Plain Sight" That seems like it would be a better gradient, but having not had the chance to play one yet, I can only speculate.

I put it at first level because the Shadowdancer is expected to be able to teleport through shadows, that's why the class exists. If it wasn't at first level, that would be massively disappointing to everyone. It's not a big deal anyway, because you can only teleport 35' at the first level of the class (and it's a standard action at that). Thanks for the positive commentary! Surgo 20:58, 24 July 2009 (MDT)

Wording: 5/5 It's always easier to convince a DM to allow Homebrew with clear, concise wording. And this Prestige class doesn't disappoint.

Formatting: 5/5 Clear layout that follows the guidelines, can't complain.

Flavor: 5/5 After playing 6 levels of SRD Shadowdancer I can tell you, this is exactly what I wanted to play. The flavor text in the article itself could use some more imagination, but better simple and clear than long-winded and confusing. I can't wait to play

--Badger 20:43, 24 July 2009 (MDT)

Changes

Don't know the wiki policy, do I keep or change the original author? I'd personally want to keep it, since I think Surgo deserves the credit for making it.

Also, I'm not going to be making any big changes (saw the adopter of the Artificer did so) since I think the class is good as-is. If I do, I might change the above things that I saw balance problems with--perhaps make the abilities 3/day instead of at will, or something like that, but wanted to discuss it before I did so. --Ghostwheel 01:49, 26 August 2009 (MDT)

If you want to make mechanical changes, make a variant please. Surgo 12:42, 30 August 2009 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 1/5 I give this class a 1 out of 5 because it is unbalanced and much too powerful. I suggest removing many of the skills or putting more limitations on them. --132.241.16.92 19:02, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Wording - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because succinct and understandable. --132.241.16.92 19:02, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Formatting - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because the author matches formatting adequately. --132.241.16.92 19:02, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Flavor - 1/5 I give this class a 1 out of 5 because its name does not seem to reflect the skills. I would consider this a shadow assassin or shadow master. --132.241.16.92 19:02, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because the class seems over powered, the at will abilities improve too quickly, were they made into 1/2/3 times per day as the class levels, the balance would be restored. The mirrorblade is nicely made, but the final ability to always attack flatfooted makes every attack a sneak attack. Try making this a lavel 8 or 10 minimum entry class to avoid making the rogue unstoppible by level 10 --50.33.221.112 19:05, 10 December 2012 (MST)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because abilities are well described, without having too many holes or RAW arguments.

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it follows all formatting guidelines.

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a5 out of 5 because it may fit well with any campaign, makes for a combat ready rogue class --50.33.221.112 19:05, 10 December 2012 (MST)

Changes and game balance suggestions

This is a very flavor rich class, but I think it has to be tweaked only a little bit to be balanced. I've play tested this with a few friends for about 5 sessions and we came up with a few tweaks.

Starting from the top down Shadow Strike is very very powerful. Essentially being a single target fireball as a standard attack action there needs to either be a daily use and damage cap (3/day 1d6/level max 15d6), or a severely reduced damage cap (1d6 per 1/2 Shadowdancer level).

Shadow Friends should be gained at an earlier level. Seeing how the requirements are a level 5 rogue and 8 levels of this class to gain unseen servant, a level 1 utility spell.

You may want to consider switching hide in plain sight and uncanny dodge. And move improved shadow slide up one level.

Bonus feats aren't really necessary, but if you want to keep them I suggest that they alternate with sneak attack.

I'm going to say a lot about Mirrorshard Blade. The only problem that I have is the Reflective Offense ability. It'd be great to deny an opponents dex bonus, but it makes sneak attack way too easy. I suggest instead that it partially ignores armor instead of causing an opponent to be flatfooted. If not drop the ability altogether.

And the reason why I say partial is because a character with Mirrorshard Blade would otherwise be on equal footing with another character with an enchanted weapon. To compare it I'll give an example at level 15. Given the rules of the blade it will have a +5 enhancement bonus, ghost touch equivalent (+1 bonus), some kind of blindness (a level 2 wizard spell, but not quite), a weak mirror image (technically less than a level 2 wizard spell), and the ability to reflect rays (which is pretty cool but not likely to be applicable to many scenarios).

Given that by level 15 a character of any class can very well have a +5 enhancement weapon, it will likely have better abilities (or at least stronger abilities). What makes this fine is that the blade requires a piece of a mirror that, if any GM was a jerk, can be shattered by a level 4 wizard at any time. With ignoring armor this may push it over the edge with a brilliant energy effect (+4 bonus), so that much should be considered, especially because there is no cap to the enhancement bonus (+10 at level 30 is par for the course but no further abilities can be enchanted anyway).

Everything that involves movement is, for the most part, fine because it is the utilities to the Shadowdancer and most don't effect others. The base attack and saves are standard as many prestige rogues have it. And the last bit of balancing I can think of is perhaps changing the requirements to enter the prestige class to Hide(10 ranks), Move Silently (10 ranks) +4d6 SA (so a minimum of level 7 rogue) and drop the perform check as that doesn't really play into the abilities.