Talk:Shadow Assassin (5e Class)

Congrats

To Whomever created this class I Think this is the best Assassin ive seen Bannanameds (talk) 18:49, 26 December 2016 (MST)

It's a bit... rough... here's some feedback.

• Unclear why this has fewer hit points than a wizard, but is expected to fill in for a fighter role.
• Hidden Strike is just the rogue's Sneak Attack. You need to call them the same thing so that they don't stack when you multiclass (or otherwise make this clear)
• Dead levels at 7th, 15th, 18th.
• Shadow blade:
  • "100 grams of incense" -> give us a GP value, not a weight (and D&D doesn't use metric anyway).
  • Why bother with the spell slot, this looks like something you would do in your downtime anyway.
  • If I use this on, say, a shortsword, and my Charisma is 18, does it now deal 4 necrotic damage instead of 1d6 + Sr mod? If that's the case, what happens on a critical hit, as there's no dice involved?
  • Mentions disarming as though it's a core action, but it's an optional rule
  • What does "cast spells through the weapon" mean? Does it substitute for the "free hand" for Somatic components, or some other meaning?
  • I can enchant the blade with "any spell", surely that can't be right? (I'll give it meteor swarm; or something with a 10 minute casting time, now it's just a bonus action and an action)
  • What does "pierces any armour" mean?
• Dark Velocity. This isn't like 3.5e where you can have a broad crit range. 19-20 is rare, 18-20 is exceptional. 17-20 should have some limitation to it (or drop it at 20th level instead), especially with the quadruple damage.
• Formatting needs fixing. Look at header sizes, sub-headers, try paragraphs (at, say, Hidden Strike and Shadow Blade). Move the shadow blade improvements to separate class features (so that you don't have a whole bunch of different features bundled up and "hidden" in one feature, this makes it easier to visualize feature spread)
• Slayer
  • works on a "person". In spell names, this means a humanoid (charm person, etc), is this the case here, or it it supposed to work on any creature?
  • Can the attack roll be any attack roll (e.g. a spell attack from a different class)?
  • Does it have to hit first? (You might end up with situations where slayer kills the target, leaving an unresolved attack.
  • This is like a much better version of the 9th level spell, power word kill. I recommend bringing it back to just the effects described in that spell.
• Destructive Aura isn't described.
• As I like to sign off my feedback lists: That's for starters. Marasmusine (talk) 01:48, 27 December 2016 (MST)

Fix

Going off what my associate said above Im going to edit the class accoordingly. Bannanameds (talk) 16:40, 27 December 2016 (MST)

Hopefully this satisfies Maramusine while staying true to the origional creators ideas.Bannanameds (talk) 18:20, 27 December 2016 (MST)

No, I'm afraid it's still off.

• What is an "assassin suit armor"
• What is a "hidden blade"? Is it Hidden Blade (5e Equipment)? It's a martial weapon, so why list it as a separate proficiency?
• They can start with an arcane focus, but do not have a focus feature for their spellcasting.
• For Shadow Step you could just add misty step to the spell list (since it uses up a spell slot anyway), with a special note.
• Death spray doesn't give a range and doesn't say how long the poison lasts.
• Shadow blade is just, ugh, I'll have to come back to it later. "For 5 minutes, the blade automatically succeeds attack rolls it makes" lol what.
• Extra attack needs writing out in full.
• Shadow attack. Hit with what? spell attacks? melee? ranged?. "per long rest".
• Many levels have multiple strong features and new spell slots. This is very overpowered.
• Wording and grammar needs improving throughout. It's painful to read.
• "Once a day" needs to change to a long rest recharge.
• Vision adds extra die rolls to every attack against you, which is poor for combat flow.
• Classes should have some mix of combat, exploration and interaction. Marasmusine (talk) 14:56, 21 February 2017 (MST)

Thanks for the feedback

Ooops....

I didn't see the errors :( The name hidden strike was chosen because I wanted something special but I shall rename in sneak attack. The hit points were a really bad idea- will a d8 fulfil the 'more hit points'? I was worried about them being to powerful so I make the a bit(read: too) squishy. I live in the UK so I really don't get Imperial, but I definitely will include a gp cost. The spell slot idea was to add a more magical, arcane feel to it.

Thanks for the info and the critical comments( I mean it :)

Keep on rolling!

(I am new to d&d and at the humble age of 11 so more feedback will really help)

Hello, here's more feedback.

• Move Death Spray to underneath Spellcasting, so that it's established what the spell save DC is.
• Death Spray doesn't say what "the opponent" is (a creature you can see? what range?) or how long the target is poisoned for.
• The wording for enchanting the shadow blade is ambiguous, and presumably you want it to use up a spell slot as though you were casting it. "5 minutes" isn't a duration used in 5e: try 1 minute (assumed to be the length of one combat)
• There are still features on levels where you gain new spell slot levels. Can't be helped at 5th level, since extra attack is standard at 5th; but you've added another feature on top of that.
• I think I'm just repeating what I wrote in February!
• You know, for the humble age of 11, this isn't too bad and I like your enthusiasm. Would you like me to rewrite the class. Perhaps seeing the changes will help you improve your future writing? Marasmusine (talk) 16:21, 28 August 2017 (MDT)

Comment

The slayer feature was better as you can cast power word kill at level 17(any full caster), but slayer comes at level 20.

A Big Concern for This Class

First off I would like to say that this class is very interesting and has lots of potential. However it is wildly unbalanced. The bold ones are major issues in my personal opinion I already removed the cantrips from spellcasting because half casters don't start with any.

-Assassinate is a very good skill however since they get it level one this is a HUGE advantage when using any stealth.

-They get sneak attack level one as well. As it also is the full scaling for it.

-Imperial vision is given at level 4, negating any magical darkness. When dark vision is still a viable option, but not unbalanced.

-Second Wind is for tanks. This gives this class very high sustain for how squishy it is said to be. It already has a teleport (Shadow Step) with a 1st level spell slot, and uncanny dodge later on and even evasion.

-Free casts of Darkness isn't as bad as the other issues. But on top of already having imperial vision and the Darkness spell it's a bit of a problem. It also doesn't state which level it is cast at.

-Dark Velocity is way to powerful. Doubling you movement outright is far past any classes mobility. The second option makes far more sense as it is limited and isn't used every turn.

-Immunity to divination is tricky. I would suggest making it only up to a certain level that the immunity is in effect.

-Dark Blade is a unique feature for this class and it is very cool to use. Charging the blade is a problem. Advantage on attacks. Yes. Instantly hitting attacks for 25 rounds. No.

We need to work on this class but I love the enthusiasm into making it. --Mr.IcedTea (talk) 08:05, 23 February 2018 (MST)

You are correct IcedTea, the class is its current state needs a lot of work to be usable. For now, I changed the proficiencies, description, and Sneak Attack scaling around and will have a look at the rest of the class soon.--Blobby383b (talk) 08:47, 23 February 2018 (MST)

This is my favorite community in existence. But i had time to think about it and i have thought of solutions we can do to make the class have the feel of a fighter-rouge.

-Its a combination of fighter rouge but having 3 classes mixed together. I feel making it a third caster rather than a half is a small nudge it needs to lose a tiny bit of its power, but it can still keep its free casts of the Darkness Spell.

-Absolutely change the Shadow blades Charge system. I'd give it advantage of a min one a day while ignoring only resistance. Having it ingnore damage reduction is kinda overpowered, it basicly could ignore the damage reduction of adamantite walls and similar damage reductions that normal seige weapons can't even beat.

-Imperial vision ins't a huge problem. I feel like it should be 30 feet rather than 60, as any characters dark vision is completely negated by it.

-Second wind was supposed to go off the fighters hit die. Plus since this class has uncanny dodge and evation, there is no need for this skill. But I feel making it 1d8 + 1/2 your Shadow Assassin Level, is better.

-Dark velocity should probably change to only make your Shadow Step better. Being able to chose between an average of 60 move speed per turn over a teleport that can be used a limited number of times is to unbalanced.

-Make all the DC checks for the classes abilities as 8 + Charisma Mod. + Proficiency.

-Slayer is also a problem I forgot to mention. Tripling your damage (On top of it instantly hitting through Shadow Blade) Is just flat out broken. I would do something like make the attack deal full sneak attack damage once a day. While still giving a point of exhaustion. Its still good, cause it fits with the assassins theme of instantly killing the target, but it's not busted.

I haven't made any of these changes and i would be happe to discuss what we could use or what needs changing.

--Mr.IcedTea (talk) 08:59, 23 February 2018 (MST)

I was thinking of making it more of a rouge/shadow caster but a rouge/fighter with a bit of spellcasting sounds good as well. I will be making the necessary adjustments to most of the lower level feature, feel free to help fix the higher level features with your suggestions. We will then go from there.--Blobby383b (talk) 11:57, 23 February 2018 (MST)

Second Wind -> Action Surge

An IP had swapped Second Wind for Action Surge. I have reverted it, but we can discuss the change here. Personally, I don't think either are appropriate, but if we had to pick one, Action Surge does seem more appropriate. Second Wind is the kind of feature a front-line fighter would need, not a "flanker". Marasmusine (talk) 06:44, 28 April 2018 (MDT)

Second Wind was designed to make the class so they can more reliably be a front liner to activate sneak attack(the class doesn't have a ton of spell slots for Shadow Step) and because Action Surge makes the class better than the rouge in terms of damage output at 1st or 2nd level.--Blobby383b (talk) 09:06, 28 April 2018 (MDT)

Better Sneak Attack than a Rogue, and Spellcasting, and Extra Attack

It's fine to have a class that excels in a few areas (the Bard class does this well) but if you have a full scaling sneak attack that far surpasses the maximum sneak attack --excluding the Inquisitive Rogue-- and doesn't even need advantage it seems a tad broken outright. Pairing it with the Shadow Step ability greatly increases this ability. And the level 17 Shadow blade, even more. I'd recommend limiting the sneak attack to something much lower considering you also have the Extra Attack feature which adds more potential damage per turn, and with the potential of dual wielding, I shudder the thought.

You also have a spell table without school limitations which adds a lot of versatility in various situations. You gain multiple instances of Second Wind unlike a fighter, allowing this class to have a large amount of survivability. I'm unsure why an assassin would need the Great Weapon Fighter fighting style or the Protection fighting style given it doesn't really benefit them or thematically make sense.

PunnyDM12 (talk) 16:05, 19 November 2018 (MST)

shadow stalker? 3/21/2019

" As long as you remain in darkness, or until you make an attack or cast a spell,"

my reading of this leads me to believe that i will remain invisible as long as i do not cast a spell regardless of if i am in darkness or not

Archetypes

Someone tried to used this class and directed me to it here. There's several things in it that feel really cherry picked from the fighter and not in a good way. But those have already been discussed above from what I can tell from my skim. The major issue I've run into is that not only are the archetypes at the end of the class poorly worded, it's in a difficult to read font. And then last but certainly not least, the class doesn't actually use the archetypes it has listed. No connection sentences, no shot on the table, nothing.--Gr7mm Bobb (talk) 12:36, 24 May 2019 (MDT)

It seems like anons did a number on this class while I was gone. With my recent edits, the class should be reverted back to its previous version in terms of balance while keeping the few quality edits made to the class in the meantime. If I missed something or made a mistake, feel free to correct it.--Blobby383b (talk) 12:03, 18 August 2019 (MDT)