Talk:Shaco (5e Class)

Just a run-through of numbers - When I say CDG I mean the class design guide for this website. Q,E, and W are the first class features you get.

AD - 1 turn burst (these ones might be off a little bit but the second part I'm 90% sure is NOT.

lvl 1 - Two-Shiv Poison every turn dealing 2d6+3(dex)+3(Char) = 13, same as average damage in the class design guide.

lvl 5 - 4d6 from crit from deceive and 2 as 1 and 20 AD from 1 item. So 4d6 + 4 + 3 from Backstab, = 21, 3 less than average on the CDG. This takes both action and bonus action to do and can only be used once every 3 turns or so, so damage kinda rough right now, but it is easier to hit as you have advantage.

lvl 11 - 8d6 from crit deceive+2 as 1 and 40 AD from 3 items. So 8d6+5+5, taking the hail of blade runes gives 4d6 more, 4d4 from sudden impact, so that is 12d6+5+5+4d4. As stated before, this can only be done once every 3 turns ish. Compare against Rogue - seems pretty comparable to me, especially if you take the wild card subclass it is like the exact same damage, but less often here.

lvl 17 - 18d6+4+6+2d4. Compare to rogue - 9d6+2d8+5 (wild card would be ->) 13.5d6+2d8+5.

lvl 20 - 21d6+4+6+2d4. Compare to WC rogue again - 15d6+2d8+5, this is 6d6 less.

Lemme run through the max progressive rhythm cycle you could do for AD

Lvl 5 - 4d6+4+3 (Q, auto), 3d6 (E), something, 4d6+7 (Q, auto), repeat, after 8 turns your damage becomes 4d6+7 every turn, but of course, this WHOLE time you are extremely vulnerable as you cannot move once you do this attack. Compare to CDG - 4d6+8. Compare to CDG - 4 turns of 24 damage - 96. This does 21+10.5+21 = 52.5. About half, this is low.

Lvl 11 - 12d6+10+4d4 (Q,auto), 5d6 (E), Something, 8d6+10+2d4, repeat. Compare to CDG - 4 turns of 40 damage - 160 damage. This does average 62+17.5+48 - 127.5 damage.

Lvl 17 - 18d6+5+6+4d4 (Q,auto), 7d6 (E), something, 12d6+11+2d4, repeat. Compare to CDG - 4 turns of 48 damage - 192. This does 84+24.5+63 = 171.5 damage.

Lvl 20 - 21d6+11+4d4 (Q,auto), 8d6(E), something, 14d6+11+2d4, repeat. Compare to CDG - 4 turns of 53 damage - 212. This does 94.5+28 +70 = 192.5

So the class has much heavier burst than other classes but much lesser damage overtime and far squishier. A risky playstyle all about timing and planning, which I quite like. Your positioning is also very important which such low AC, and the above was assuming you build as much damage as possible and don't take any defense.

AP lvl 1- Same as AD.

lvl 5- Box does 2d4 + 4 w/ range of 5 feet plus frighten

lvl 11 - Box does 3d4 +5 w/ 5 feet frighten plus 1d8 from arcane comet.

lvl 17 - Box does 6d4 +5 w. 5 feet frighten plus 3d8 from arcane comet. This is vs 8d6+20 from the CDG but plus a frighten.

lvl 20 - Box does 7d4+3d8 from arcane comet. MAX is from clone explosion doing 21d4+3d8 once per long rest.

So the balance of AP is really dependent on how much you value a 5 foot range frighten, and how often your boxes can actually get attacks off when their AC is only 19. I really don't know where the balance on AP is at all, frightened seems like it could be kinda nuts but its also hard to trigger and the damage is a little lack luster. Really your main thing is casting a fear every 3 turns which isn't too great.

I think the main improvements that could be made in terms of balance are: Balancing AP, I don't know how valuable the frighten is, it is hard to pull off though, and the damage is lackluster. Also the Class has a ton of mobility available and I'm not sure how that plays out.

Otherwise, things that could be improved are: wording, some of the higher level features are kind of uninteresting. I also don't know if the advantage from backstab is too much but not having advantage on your one big AD attack would feel super bad.