Talk:Sandbender (3.5e Class)

Author's Note

Please do not add or remove sections of my work. Understand it took an exhaustive amount of effort and time to try to create a working, usable class that wasn't too complicated or overpowered with plenty of flavor and clearly described. Deleting so much as a line may cause a lot of damage to the feel and/or understandability of the class and adding new abilities/techniques could reiterate on already covered topics or detract from the original intent of the class. I am all for discussing anything you might like to add to the class but please, unless it's a grammatical mistake, do not edit this class. Just discuss it and I'll consider adding or removing something. Thank you.

P.S. - I AM talking to you 173.245.50.206 whom deleted my entire Sandbenders In The Game section and added new abilities without discussing first. And the rest of you thinking about doing something along the same lines.

Uhnaneemoos 21:25, 26 June 2011 (MDT)

Not Showing up

This class isn't showing up in the homebrew classes table. :( Uhnaneemoos 04:04, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I added the category "Base Class". It shows up now. :) --Badger 05:43, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you so much. Still new to this category stuff. XD Uhnaneemoos 01:02, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Strength

I have found no real means for the use of strngth through techniques... does it get applied somewhere and I just missed it??

Woops, forgot to fix that. Meant to either remove it or have it's modifier added as damage to the techniques either at the start or as a natural technique, or maybe at a certain level.Uhnaneemoos 01:03, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

I've been thinking about making 4 prestige classes for this class, one based on dex, str, int, and cha, each able to do different things. Perhaps then I could clarify the important abilities section if I make those.Uhnaneemoos 03:27, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Hey, i was wondering how well your progressing on this, such as feats based on techniques.

I'm progressing pretty slowly since I have some other projects I'm working on. This is the only class for techniques (unless someone else started one) but I've been brain storming some ideas. Why do you ask? Uhnaneemoos 13:47, 25 September 2010 (MDT)

SAND TECH

I was looking to play for sandbender but 2 things struck me as poorly explained. the first being how exactly moving the attuned sand works. can i only move one cubic foot 15 feet? and i assume 3 cubic feet only 5' each? Because once you get 10 + cubic feet you then need to keep track of each cubic foot in use and where it is on the field and such which seems rather insane. the other concern is sand spikes. a ten foot radius? would that then mean you would need 4 blocks of attuned sand in a line (seeing that a cubic foot can take up one square, which is 5', so 4 squares would be a 10' radius) then you would need to do this in a cirlce, so you would end up using a total of 8 cubic feet? essentialy all our sand at 4th level?

Thank you for taking the time to read my class and plan on trying it out. Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner, been busy at school. Also, thanks for bringing these things to my attention.

The intent of how moving the attuned sand works was for it to be that much distance for each individual cubic foot of attuned sand and has henceforth gotten its updated text. Also, sand spikes was one of my earliest techniques I made and I forgot to update its text when I converted areas of sand to cubic feet of attuned sand. It, too, has updated text.

Sorry for the inconveniences.

Uhnaneemoos 19:37, 21 December 2010 (MST)

wondering a couple things. would it be possible to have 0 level techniques? these would pretty much be techniques that could be used at will. Maybe like Sand hand, because then you could actually fight w/ it? also, as it seems this is based of off Naruto's Gaara, who is a ninja, so could we at least give this class light armor proficiency, and simple weapon proficiency (may be just focusing on dagger and ninja stars)? One more thing. How would attuned sand be effected by spells, such as Stone Shape or Gust of wind? From warriors4ever 16:29, 14 March 2011 (MDT)

One more thing, can attuned sand be hardened, like Gaara's sand-container? warriors4ever 16:29, 14 March 2011 (MDT)

Thanks for the interest.

As far as 0 level techniques go I'd rather not as techniques are the manipulation of the environment through inner energy. A 0 level technique usable at will would imply that that technique requires no inner energy to use and undermines the idea. I made up for this with a plethora of class abilities. If you'd like, you can think of these class abilities to be 0-level techniques.

You bring up some excellent points but try to remember my hope was to create a class based solely on the sand abilities that Gaara had and avoiding completely connecting it to the series by making it a ninja class. But, for the sake of having at least SOME proficiencies I'll be considering some various weapons.

I'll keep in mind such things as Stone Shape and other such spells. Stone Shape will probably render attuned sand useless and gust of wind probably moves it or disperses it.

And lastly, yes, the sand can be hardened like the sand container but that is worked into the techniques. Again, thanks for reading! Uhnaneemoos 15:57, 9 April 2011 (MDT)

so i was reading it and i have a few questions how much can the sand take? like it says it can be destroyed by fire or ligthning or water so is that like any amount of it destroys it? another question can you wrap the sand around body parts and crush them or does it have to be around the whole body? for the living shield does it have a health or does it block only so much cause it says "This new sand will remain invisible until something attempts to harm the sandbender in which case it moves in the way of the incoming attack, blocking it." for the ranged dry hands attack will the absorbed water make the sand useless or is the water transferred to you? --Porkins (talk) 10:55, 27 March 2013 (MDT)

Excellent questions. I see I have a lot of oversights to clean up. I'll update the text but for your sake also answer all of your questions. :)

Sand Vulnerabilities: I've added some details on this on the attuned sand page but in short every 3 fire damage or lightning damage will ruin a cubic foot of attuned sand and it takes half a cubic foot of water to ruin one cubic foot of attuned sand. Those numbers were made a touch hastily so they may be subject to change.

Crushing: DND's all about doing what you want so as long as it's fine with your DM yea feel free too. As to how much damage that would deal I couldn't really say as I don't know any rules for that off the top of my head.

Living Sand: My intent was for that to be flavor text but I can see how in certain situations it might seem confusing (I.E.: reflex saves from a fireball spell) so I'll clarify some by adding in that it is impenetrable by mundane weapons however it has the same vulnerabilities as any of your other attuned sand. Seeing as how the idea of a sandbender is they rely on their sand before anything else they would let that living sand get in the way of a fireball or lightning bolt spell so it would offer its bonuses to reflex only once before being destroyed. I've added in a bit to keep the original power of the natural technique so you can easily replace destroyed living shield by designating some of your other sand to come alive as a free action.

Ranged Dry Hands: That's a good question. The original intent was that the water would be absorbed into the sandbender and have no effect on the attuned sand. I have hence added the appropriate text into the class.

Thanks for the excellent observations! Hope this help and feel free to ask anything else you need. :) Uhnaneemoos (talk) 17:25, 29 March 2013 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it is fairly well balanced and useful however limiting the greater techniques does somewhat depreciate from this class.--76.219.115.8 22:21, 5 February 2011 (MST)

Wording - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because some of the wording and gramatical errors made things somewhat difficult to understand, it would also help if things were made out more clearly such as the mix-ups between dry hands and hands of drought. --76.219.115.8 22:21, 5 February 2011 (MST)

Formatting - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it is very well formatted and can fit into most any campaign, however some of the skills that have tables are long winded and have too much complexity, but i am merely speaking in terms of standard play, but these could stand to be simplified some for people that arent good with numbers. --76.219.115.8 22:21, 5 February 2011 (MST)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the flavor is good and somewhat understated which makes other things pop out yet not too much. --76.219.115.8 22:21, 5 February 2011 (MST)

Why thank you for the compliments! As I re-read this I can see I did have a number of grammatical issues to sort out (which have been unless I missed something yet again) and I fixed the wording as well. I had forgotten to update the text when I switched the names of those features. :P

As far as the long winded techniques go I'm assuming you mean skills like Desert Meteor? I agree they are quite detailed and may be a bit overwhelming to use which is why I made tables for easier calculations but I was just trying to match as realistic a spell as I could. I'll add some TL;DR sections to them for those that just want a quick, easy to use version. If anybody could specifically point out which techniques were too bothersome I'll be sure to modify them. Uhnaneemoos 15:52, 9 April 2011 (MDT)

Rating

Power - <<<4>>>/5 I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<starting out with so few technique points and no weapons but Dry Hands mixed with no proficiencies with any weapons or armor makes survival a little too challenging. Maybe allowing some form of attack with Attuned Sand, like a close swipe or push for melee and a straight line or ray of some kind for ranged.>>> --Soulfire91 17:50, 11 March 2011 (MST)

Wording - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<Great descriptions of the the techniques, their functions and the entire document!>>> --Soulfire91 17:50, 11 March 2011 (MST)

Formatting - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<Easy to understand and straight forward without being boring or too overwhelming.>>> --Soulfire91 17:50, 11 March 2011 (MST)

Flavor - <<<5e>>>/5 I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<Awesome that there is a Naruto character class that is both not broken and/or doesn't suck.>>> --Soulfire91 17:50, 11 March 2011 (MST)

Quite the compliments! Yea, the idea did mostly come from Naruto but I wanted to make sure not to focus on that so that it could be included in most any campaign setting. Thank you for reading and commenting!

As far as early game survival goes I'll be adding in some weapon proficiencies for early on. Also, keep in mind that you get a few bonus technique points from your wisdom modifier and attuned sand can be used offensively to blind opponents at lower levels if you're out of other options (read up on attuned sand if you didn't know this). Lastly, I've been thinking of making a feat that grants bonus technique points if you don't want to be starved for them at lower levels. Uhnaneemoos 15:54, 9 April 2011 (MDT)

After just a bit of low level play-testing I've seen that the single technique point at a lower level IS a bit too low so I've updated both the leveling progression chart here and on the main page for technicians to be a little higher. With the increase it IS quite manageable now at least in my experience. Thanks for pointing it out! Uhnaneemoos 08:38, 28 June 2011 (MDT)

just wanted to say i made this a boss in a quest and he knocked down two tanks, killed three summoned monsters, and left a socerer helpless before finally dying (5 person party) and with only a two level advantage so just wanted to give you props and say i found my new favorite non-SRD class

I'd love a detailed recount of how that happened so I can take it into consideration for power 'cause that sounds very impressive for just be two levels ahead. Also put "~~~~" at the end of your posts so I can see who is talking. :P Uhnaneemoos (talk) 11:28, 28 March 2013 (MDT)

Editing

If you wouldn't mind it much I'd like to help ya in editing and wording. I'm new to this wiki so I believe I must start somewhere, yes?--Raem 21:50, 14 March 2011 (MDT)

Yep, I wouldn't mind. If it's grammatical I don't mind one bit anyone changing. :) Uhnaneemoos 15:53, 9 April 2011 (MDT)

About The Living Sand AC Bonus...

I noticed that it specifies only Touch AC. From what I've seen, not many things use touch attacks aside from some spells and the like, making this a very difficult technique to take when there are others that have more substantial and immediate effects. Is there any way you could change it to standard AC instead?

EDIT: Thanks for the prompt response! Keep up the good work!

Ummmm, I'm checking the history of the editing for the class and there were no edits between June 5th (when you first posted this) and June 8th (when you added the edit) so did you misread it or am I missing something? Although thank you for the compliment! :P Uhnaneemoos 21:25, 26 June 2011 (MDT)

I must've misread it because I didn't see anything like that when I first looked. :p

Ok thank you! Just wanted to make sure nothing funky was going on. :) Uhnaneemoos 08:36, 28 June 2011 (MDT)

About The All Is One Technique...

It doesn't specify how to calculate the damage from the ranged touch attack. How would that work out?

The intent was to deliver the sandbender's dry hands touch attack when used. I've updated the text to be more clear on how to use it. Thank you for bringing that up! :) Uhnaneemoos 08:36, 28 June 2011 (MDT)

Question About The Living Shield...

Do you get the +2 bonus to both Touch and Normal AC every time you take it or is it only the first time? I see that it doesn't say you get the bonus to normal ac in the smaller section below it. Soulfire91 14:09, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for noting that. Updated the text to include normal AC. Uhnaneemoos 17:58, 10 August 2011 (MDT)

A thought occurs to me...

Do you have any plans to make more classes with the Technicians template? I thought it might be interesting to do some other elemental classes.--Soulfire91 15:55, 10 July 2011 (MDT)

Yea, I'm working on some ideas on paper. At the moment I'm distracted with a different style of technician (the Grand Marionettist) but this could easily be used for any elemental style class you could think up. Go ahead and make one of your own if you'd like. Uhnaneemoos 17:52, 10 August 2011 (MDT)

A idea for a new Sandbender Feat

This feat could allow a Sandbender to give up a Natural Technique they currently know in exchange for a new one. However, this feat can only be taken once and if the ability being exchanged cause the Sandbender to lose a Greater Control ability (if they have already taken it), then they lose that ability and do not gain another one until the next level. This feat could also be used to exchange G.C. feats specifically, but again, if it has already been used, this feat may not be selected again.

P.S. : I'm glad that I can contribute to such an awesome class and see my suggestions be taken seriously and even be implemented. --Soulfire91 14:47, 17 August 2011 (MDT)

Thank you for being so interested! I hadn't had a lot of time in quite a while so my homebrew classes have sadly been thrown under the bed. But I'm back now for who knows how long. :) That's an excellent idea for a feat as many times you take a choice and later find out it doesn't work as well as you imagined so I'll add it in once I get around to learning this site again. Uhnaneemoos (talk) 10:56, 28 March 2013 (MDT)

this class seems as if it assumes you will take that feat, because the alternative is that you skip the 5th level techniques, seems like it might be a better situation just to make it mandatory at character creation, make this a class that can only be taken at character creation, and to fix the stuttered progression of the techniques at 1st and 9th level, just add another tier by making a few heavily modified better versions of weaker abilities...i am currently reworking this class to function in a campaign...those are just a few thoughts i had. ive been making classes for years for my campaigns, seldom do i find one i like enough to rework however.--Jintoya (talk) 12:49, 4 January 2020 (MST)

Question regarding the Advanced Natural Techniques feat

It says that I gain Natural Techniques every 2 levels instead of every three. Does that mean I gain N.T.s at lvl 10 and lvl 20?--Soulfire91 23:31, 21 August 2011 (MDT)

Yes indeed it does and you can take that extra Natural Technique before you take your level 10 or 20 Greater Control. I'm also concerned as to the power of that feat being so easy to take so I'd love to hear your opinion on it. Uhnaneemoos (talk) 10:59, 28 March 2013 (MDT)

Epic Sandbender and Possible Deity

Two things I noticed:

• The Epic Table is missing the Base Attack Bonus, Saves, Techniques Known and Technique Points columns.
• The table Ability Modifiers and Bonus Technique Points also only goes to level 20(even thou a smart person should be able to figure it out).

I was also wondering if it would be ok to use this class for a Deity I am planning? It is (name not determined yet), Goddess of the Burning Wastelands. She is a Greater Deity (Divine Rank 16) that rules over the wastelands in warm climates, with Sandbenders, Sand Elementals, Earth Elementals, and desert dwellers as worshipers. She will have the domains Fire, Earth, Sun, and from the Sandstorm book the domains Sand, Thirst, and Summer... Still working on the idea...

--Korminor (talk) 22:56, 5 August 2012 (MDT)

I based those tables off of the base class pages so I'm not sure if they are supposed to go beyond that. I more than happy to elaborate though if I'm supposed to. And yes, please, go ahead and use it for any character or Deity you want to include. You have an excellent idea there! Uhnaneemoos (talk) 11:08, 28 March 2013 (MDT)

Total Attuned Sand

Was looking at the table for total attuned sand a sandbender can have at level 30, witch is 60. However, to trap a Colossal Creature it requires 80 so even the strongest Sandbender can't trap a colossal creature. Was this don intentionally or is there a way for sandbenders to work together to trap larger pray? Also, is their any way for a Sasndbender to increase the amount of attuned sand they can have? Possible Epic Feat?!? I would love to see a epic feat that increases the attuned sand amount from 2 per level to 3 per level.... --Korminor (talk) 11:38, 8 August 2012 (MDT)

Yes that was done intentionally as being able to trap a Colossal sounded a little silly at first but I guess as an epic level character it's not too unreasonable so I'll go ahead and flesh out that feat. Uhnaneemoos (talk) 11:04, 28 March 2013 (MDT)

Sandbender and Armor...

I noticed that the sandbenders Weapon and Armor Proficiency: section, it says they are not proficent in wearing armor. However it does not state what happens if they do wear armor. So using the arcane spellcasters as a base I came up with this... Like spellcasters casting arcane spells, armor interferes with the gestures that a sandbender must make to use their techniques that has a somatic component. Sandbenders face the possibility of techniques failure if they’re wearing armor. A character who casts techniques while wearing armor must make an technique failure roll. The number in the Arcane Spell Failure Chance column on Table: Armor and Shields is the chance that the technique fails and is ruined. If the technique lacks a somatic component, however, it can be used with no chance of technique failure.

I hope you don't mind me adding this in. --Korminor (talk) 20:14, 25 November 2012 (MST)

That is an excellent point however the sandbender isn't an arcane spell caster it's a technician. Thanks for bringing it to my attention though; I'll go add in a section for it to the Technique_Powers_(3.5e Variant Rule) page and add the links in to the text. Uhnaneemoos (talk) 11:16, 28 March 2013 (MDT)

Rating

Balance - 5/5 I give this class a X out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> I give this class a 5 out of 5 because while it deals a crap load of damage, so can mages and psions. the technique system isn't too diferent than the power point system in fact. Wording - 4.5/5 I give this class a X out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> I give this a 4.5 out of 5 because it was easy to comprehend and well organized, but there's always a few typos. Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a X out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> I give this a 4.5 out of 5 because it was easy to follow and well organized Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a X out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is fully developed and well described, it has a lot of variety and room for customization.

Rating

Balance - 4/5 I give this class a X out of 5 because <<<starts off slow, but defiantly picks up power late game>>>

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a X out of 5 because <<<easy to read>>>

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a X out of 5 because <<<cause its awesome and I love playing as the sandbender>>>

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a X out of 5 because <<<cause it just kicks ass>>>

Techniques missing parts or have technical errors.

I noted on some of your Sandbenders techniques that they are missing some lines. Some seem to be missing the Components , Targets , and Saving Throw . I noted since they are not spells that Spell Resistance is not applicable. Also some techniques seem to have errors with Duration. Example is Third Eye (Sand) has a duration of instantaneous when I believe it should be a concentration check to see how long you can maintain the eye. The are just some technical errors that should be addressed.

--Korminor (talk) 17:53, 24 July 2013 (MDT)

Prestige Classes?

A great and well balanced class, very well thought out and polished. But are you planning to add any Sandbender specific prestige classes? If so, what are some of your ideas? Some example classes might be, mixing in tiny blades into the sand or mixing lead pellets to make it heavier. I don't know, but are you planning to add prestige classes?

PCgen

Anyone think this would be worth writing up for PCgen?

PCgen

Anyone think this would be worth writing up for PCgen?