Talk:Saiyan Fighter, 2nd Variant (5e Class)

Placement

I really like this page, the changes you’ve made to the original put it far and above, but I do have some problems. Ki Peak, Retaliatory Strike, and Trained Fighter were intended to be replacements for the Super Saiyan forms, such as for a non-saiyan or those who prefer not to achieve SS3, as happens often in the series. Giving both makes the class just slightly too powerful. I also wish to add a Future Trunks-like subclass, and, while I understand that wiki pages are community driven rather than individually owned, would still prefer a documented go-ahead. -Ref3rence (talk) 06:21, 26 September 2019 (MDT)

most of the changes I'm fine with,however i need to revert the changes to part of eraser cannon and masenko,the legend doesn't get any other better featured for long ranged ki attacks,and masenko is like that as its just a weaker version of the ki beam.

Fair enough, I hadn’t taken that into account. -Ref3rence (talk) 17:27, 26 September 2019 (MDT)

I’ve been playing this class for one of my campaigns and have found a couple of balance issues.

• Three saving throw proficiencies is far too powerful.
• Ki blasts seem signigifantly more powerful than unarmed strikes due to their larger die and the fact that they have range. The easiest answer would be to make them cost ki, but that seems inaccurate to the series.

I look foreword to resolving these issues. -Ref3rence (talk) 06:34, 1 October 2019 (MDT)

the balance to ki blasts,is you only get one until level 5,and you need to roll to even hit them,its effectively a crossbow attack

also the three saving throws are to reflect the saiyans racial abilities as much as they are the class,its only similar to taking that one feat without the extra asi increase

I am confused. It sounds like what you’re saying is that you can only use ki Blast once until 5th level and that you don’t have to roll to hit with unarmed strikes, both of which are very clearly not the case. Regardless, it still deals far more damage than unarmed strikes, so why would I ever bother using them? As for your second point, I believe you are talking about Resilient. (1) You’re assuming the DM has already allowed feats, and (2) nothing is restricting you from taking that feat, so you could potentially be proficient in 4 saving throws. The main way I could see remedying this is to replace an ASI. -Ref3rence (talk) 09:48, 1 October 2019 (MDT)

im not saying that,ki blast uses an action,unarmed strikes can be used with both martial arts and flurry of blows,its just adding in another way to attack something,you can either roll to hit something with a ki blast within 30+ feet,or you can punch something multiple times using your action and bonus action,so i dont see the problem

also this is all homebrew anyway why the hell am i balancing this against what a certain DM would want? and on the allowed feats/having an extra save,i just felt it fit saiyan fighter more to have a dexterity save as well,thats it

Thank you for clarifying, I now understand. As for your second point, however, I can not disagree more. The main point of homebrew is for it to be seamlessly inserted balance-wise into the base game, and feats are a variant rule. It’s not a matter of “what a certain DM would want”, it’s a matter of the standards of the wiki. -Ref3rence (talk) 16:50, 1 October 2019 (MDT)

On a different note, I may change damage types in Legend to Acid instead of necrotic, because LSS isn’t necessarily evil, it just degrades the user’s mind. -Ref3rence (talk) 07:12, 2 October 2019 (MDT)

ok,i see what your saying about the third saving throw,ill revert it then,on the subject of necrotic,that damage type isnt actually evil either,it fits legend a lot better then acid honestly,its still an energy based attack and not acidic

Evil Saiyan was intended to be based off of Cunber from DB Heroes rather than Turles. I also may rework SS2 and replace the +2 to Dex with something less underwhelming. -Ref3rence (talk) 08:14, 7 October 2019 (MDT)

ive never heard of him at all honestly,and maybe yeah, give it something that makes it feel like its worth the cost

I’ve tried incorporating the third save proficiency that we talked about earlier, because I did want that to make it in somehow. I’ve also switched around Dexterity and Constitution as it seemed more fitting given Evasion. -Ref3rence (talk) 06:40, 8 October 2019 (MDT)

I’m also considering adding Battle Armor as an option in the equipment listing, but figured I’d ask you about it first. -Ref3rence (talk) 09:59, 8 October 2019 (MDT)

battle armor would be fine,and yeah the evasion change makes since

Spirit Bomb

I’ve been considering nerfing spirit bomb for a while, specifically the 100ft radius of effect. Given that the spirit bomb already has a safe maximum of 220 ft, not even taking into account succeeding the Wisdom saving throw, the 100 ft. additional area of effect makes it borderline unusable, as you are basically TPKing your own party. I propose reducing the explosion radius to 10 ft.

i would be fine with lowering the blast radius from the edge to ten feet,but only if the damage increases to compensate

False Super Saiyan

The newest addition to this class is really good, but I have a few issues. First and foremost, it doesn’t mention how you get your ability scores back. If it were me I would add something along the lines of “at the end of which, any ability score decreases are undone” to the end of the final downside. Second, it doesn’t mention how you leave this form, save for at the end of combat. While this isn’t dangerous in its own right, given how many ways someone’s Con score can be decreased, locking them in until the end of combat could very easily kill a player. -Ref3rence (talk) 09:32, 15 December 2019 (MST)

its meant to be an all or tpk kind of ability and i added a long rest recovery feature

Charging

I don’t see how the charging rules I added are “too much math”. As is, charging is not explained. Furthermore, the new rules are as simple as “your ‘charge count’ increases by 1 on initiative count 20” which is pretty simple. The whole half charge ruling was already implicated, it was just only used in the galick gun. -Ref3rence (talk) 05:32, 24 February 2020 (MST)

Protection

Thanks for the protection green dragon,hope i can still edit it though-Hypnoshadow

Super Saiyan

Im going to be running this class in a campaign with friends but I'm confused on what is meant with "Your unarmed strikes deal +1 damage die for every base existing die."

Could you be able to explain it a bit more?

its doubling the base die,say you dealt 2d4 damage in base form,super is 4d4,when it says base die it means your base damage