Talk:Runeseeker (5e Class)

general

Hello i only recently started playing d&d and i am now a level 2 runeseeker and am the main striker for my group. our dm is going to have us get up to level 40 and i can get to level 20 in two classes one of wich will be runeseeker i was wondering if anyone had suggestions for another class i could get to 20 with or two i could get to 10 with

• Oh! Great! Someone is using my class, let me know how it goes and if it's decently balanced. Getting up to level 40 in d&d 5e can make the game pretty broken, but as long as your DM feels like it I guess why not. Since levels over 20 are not a thing in 5e, it's unexplored territory. Now, since spell level probably still has the usual limits I wouldn't advice to get 20 levels of wizard, because your spellcasting would get capped at 20 anyway. Your best option after 20 levels of runeseeker could be 10wizard-10rogue, this way you get to level 20 spellcaster level and you get some nice power ups for fighting, without getting non-stackable extra attacks. Also you would get into two classes that still require Int. Similarly you could simply go for 20 levels of Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster. Another interesting option could be the Warlock, however since it requires Cha it could create problems because of MAD (Multiple Attribute Dependency). Ranger or Paladin might be nice, but they have the same problem of the Warlock, and the same non-stackable extra attack of the fighting classes.

--Hermetist (talk) 01:27, 9 October 2015 (MDT)

The mad is taken care of I am starting with 2 20s a 21 and nothing lower than 10( dm says reroll so bonus is at leats plus one) So far i do not seem any weaker than the other classes and not to much stronger it is very balanaced (at least at level 2) i am the main striker?damage dealer for my group and the spell choicees compliment this greatly with ice knife, and hellish rebuke i can dominate almost any enenmy

• You literally can NOT have more than 20 by the rules in d&d 5e. Your DM seems to be uncapping everything, literally risking to get into the same exact issues that made 3.5 the messy edition that it was. It's nice to know that the class is playing pretty balanced though. Can I know about your weapon and your race and background? Stuff like that, I'm just curious really, to know what kind of dude came out of a runeseeker that I didn't think of myself. Anyway, 3 main stats still make you fall into MAD when playing multiclasses that cast with new mental stats, if for example you have str20 con20 int20 (which seems optimal), why wasting attribute growths in getting 20 Cha to cast as a warlock, when you can simply get feats and multiclass into something that doesn't require Cha or Wis? No in the first session i was unconscious twice because his monsters are just a little op but it was not due to rune seeker because all of our party did on guy had an ac of 20 unless you break his armor that has 50 hp

I am a Firemane lion folk from the homebrew races with a noble background my family was murderd by a powerful wizard so i went out to find enough power to destroy him and found that i had a knack for runic power my runic weapon is a long sword because i can wield it one hand and use the higher damage plus have a sheild in my other hand What about battlemaster homebrewclass just make the weapon mastery the same as your runic weapon

• That battlemaster sounds like a good option yeah, it's hard to take into account all of the homebrew that flies around the internet. Your character seems simple and fun. Nice one. It seems good to get into mind runes for some reason, maybe soul if you plan on making him more of a crafter guy. I find fun to use longswords with dex characters using the lightweight rune, but I'm guessing you are probably going to go for firepower enchanting runes. If you like longswords for versatility you might be interested in the shapelessness rune as well.

--Hermetist (talk) 17:55, 9 October 2015 (MDT)

Yes i was planning on the soul runes an my first rune is going to be the shapelessness rune Warlock would be fine i have a 17 charisma and it is my lowest score i have 20 str 20 dex 18 con 20 int 18 wis and 17 cha

• That is statistically absurd and it's pretty much why I prefer arrays to rolling abilities. Are all of the other members of the group this overpowered? It's nearly ridiculous this way. But yeah, this character can literally multiclass anything. If you go warlock, you can follow pretty much the same guides for the paladin-warlock that are around online.

--Hermetist (talk) 11:06, 10 October 2015 (MDT)

Yes the rest of the party is at least as good with the abilities if not better

• At this point the game basically plays better by simply giving a +5 to everything and ignoring the existence of abilities altogether. But ehy, as long as you guys like your weird overpowered rerolling system, nothing stops you from enjoying it. I just personally think that 5e is better with lower numbers from 8 to 18 and 20 being a thing that you see very rarely, especially at low levels.

--Hermetist (talk) 05:25, 11 October 2015 (MDT)

Now that that the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide has been released are you planning on including spells from that book that Runeseekers can use?

• I have no time whatsoever to dedicate to the runeseeker anymore, and it already needed quite a few big changes months ago, so I will not do it myself. I wouldn't be particularly against anyone adding to the list in the wiki a choice of most of the sorcerer spells with some wizard stuff and very few warlock choices (if any). Generally speaking Runeseekers should have mostly damage spells (usually evocation, conjuration, necromancy), some transmutation spells and abjuration spells mostly to help with physical fighting, then a little bit of other schools mostly for out of combat utility (illusion, enchantment, divination). As long as this sort of general advice is followed and that some symbol is added to the spell to specify that it comes from that handbook (and that in general the grammar, spelling and formatting is correct), I would gladly let someone else do the job of buying the book and getting the spells from that book into the Runeseeker list.

--Hermetist (talk) 03:47, 27 October 2015 (MDT)

issues

• i was wondering if you could switch the runic weapon like if you found a better weapon could you transfer all your runes to it and give it all the powers of your old weapon (you would have to destroy the original weapon in doing though) this would make sense beacause otherwise you have to start with the weapon you want as your runic weapon and some weapons cannot be attained through starting equipment like a common magic weapon

• Well, to be honest I don't really want that to happen, because one of the main design concepts of the RuneSeeker is to have a bonded weapon without a constant change of mind from the weakest to the strongest weapon like Blade Warlock and Eldritch Knight do. On the bright side, all of the powers a runic weapon gets make it equivalent to a weapon of the rarity you are supposed to find at around that level. If you find a magic weapon that you want to use even though you already have the runic weapon there are a few ways you can go at it: you can simply switch from one to the other if that weapon is ranged and your runic weapon is not, you can dual wield them if they are both one handed melee weapons, you can just simply not care about it and keep using your runic weapon instead. Your runic weapon is one and only and is an integral part of your character, a GM should focus on letting a RuneSeeker find defensive equipment, runestones and other magical items, instead of giving them a constant stream of magical weapon, since that's already provided from the class features themselves.

--Hermetist (talk) 01:47, 1 October 2015 (MDT)

• Removed Basic Runes since they make the RuneSeeker overpowered, they are completely unnecessary and they slightly enhance the complexity of the design for no reason. They were also completely unbalanced between each other. I would add that a rune written on a weapon to let a character have another runic weapon makes no sense whatsoever, enchanting runes should give powers to the weapon they are inscribed on, they are not feats for the character. And it's not balanced at all, since it doubles up the power of all enchanting runes. I would say that if you desperately want a runeseeker with two runic weapons, that should be part of a new archetype, not a just a rune. And certainly not a "basic rune". A runeseeker archetype able to inscribe runes on another weapon and on defensive equipment and other items could be an interesting one.

--Hermetist (talk) 01:47, 1 October 2015 (MDT)

That would be an interesting archetype or you could add this to the soul rune archetype beacause they are supposedely mastersmiths this would make sense beacause nothing else in this archetype has to do with adding versatility to your runes. also does the blood rune archtype seem just a little unbalanced with more skills than the other two also therer are three levels which are empty

• Skincarved Runes is only a ribbon feature, it doesn't really provide much. Blood Bounty and Blood Magic work in tandem and they are less strong than other starting features by the other two archetypes. The other archetypes (especially the mind runes) are built upon few features that become way stronger when leveling up. Blood Runes is built on many weaker features instead. In fifth edition some levels in casting classes are meant to be empty, especially if spells are already leveling up anyway at that level. You don't want to over-run players with too many features and spells. Look at the classes in the handbook, especially paladin and ranger, and see where they have "empty" levels. This is very similar.

--Hermetist (talk) 07:52, 1 October 2015 (MDT)

• Adding features and powers to the class will overpower it. Adding features and powers to an archetype will overpower that archetype. If you want a runeseeker with certain powers and capabilities, please consider creating an entirely new runeseeker archetype instead. I have removed the added power of Master Artisan since it was badly explained and it would create terrible imbalance. When creating the runeseeker I was thinking of adding an archetype able to embed runes in armor and maybe one other weapon called "Secret of the Aegis Runes", but I ultimately scrapped it. I wouldn't mind seeing something similar created and added to the wiki.

--Hermetist (talk) 01:42, 2 October 2015 (MDT)

• Please stop trying to add that the runic weapon "becomes an artifact with the fourth enchanting rune". There is no fourth enchanting rune, and even if there was, artifacts are not weapons go check the Dungeon Master's Guide.

--Hermetist (talk) 04:08, 4 October 2015 (MDT)

I've temporarily (1 month) blocked anonymous users from editing the page. Marasmusine (talk) 04:59, 4 October 2015 (MDT)

• Thank you so much, this was starting to get stressful.

--Hermetist (talk) 06:02, 4 October 2015 (MDT)

Multiple runic weapons?

ive been interested in this class but ive noticed some interesting things involving multiple weapons. You first allow, at 4th level, the ability to ignore your Ability Score Increase for empowering a new runic weapon. Yet, at level 11 for Enhanced Runic Weapon runes, you can also inscribe one rune in lieu of placing it on your original weapon. Also, with the Soul Runes archetype, it allows you to inscribe the warning rune. Do you inscribe this in one weapon or in both weapons?

-An interested DND player

That feature Split Runes was added in that nonsensical way by someone else, and even though I tried to delete it, it apparently came back to haunt me. This wiki has been doing this to me quite a lot and it's transforming this class into a nightmarish mess. Lately I've not been receiving emails when such changes have been made and this is driving me completely crazy. If you want a decent version of the class you can find a pdf in this dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bx32kbb8brzja7z/5e%20Runeseeker%200.8.pdf?dl=0 The soul runes should not grant the Warning Rune. The 11th level of Enhanced Runic Weapon is the only effect that I added personally to the wiki and not to the pdf to satisfy the player that apparently wanted to be able to have runes split between two runic weapons even before actually having runes to split. Technically with my initial design you should not be allowed to have two runic weapons, but simply if you want to dual wield you can have one runic weapon and one normal weapon or a magical weapon that you found somewhere (as usual). If you find anything else that makes no sense please let me know, they've been changing the class so much I can't find absurdities in the mess anymore. --Hermetist (talk) 00:56, 1 December 2015 (MST)

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Hey Hermetist, was just looking through the class you made, noticed some one has decided to completely break the balance of your class by making your runes incredibly over powered and making it so you get runes from level 2 on wards. I have returned it back to its base form, however I do recommend perhaps locking this page to prevent further changes unless they are discussed with you and or a admin. It seems like a very interesting class with some really nice features, currently one of my players is using it and is enjoying it very much. The level 20th ability may need some revision as it seems rather overpowered it allows for abuse of some spells like protection from good and evil and a few others spells. I suggest perhaps only allow for one spell to become permanent at a time or to perhaps allow for the character to enter a stance in which they become one with their weapon and can preform some nifty abilities. Also some of the runes while quit balanced might need some rewording as per the thunderclap rune defeaning the target automatically or the radiance rune. I leave it to your discretion.

Thanks for your time. --Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 09:13, 29 July 2016 (MDT)

Hey there Vladmere! Thank you so much for noticing and bringing back balance, I have no time to keep track of this page anymore and doing the work myself was starting to get pretty annoying. The issue is that I'm actually pretty new to the whole wiki style of editing and I have no idea how to lock a page. I'll try but if I can't manage to do it I'll have to ask you to explain it to me because I feel pretty dumb when moving around the wiki. I'm so glad you are using it and enjoying it! Let me know if it gives any problem with balance, especially the archetypes are what might end up needing some rework (if I ever get back to work on this). I imagined the 20th level ability was probably broken but I figured if the druid can canon have infinite shapes providing infinite hp, then I can have some fun with the final ability of my class. If you think it really is too much even for a 20th level ability, then you might be right and I should change it or add some limits. About the thunderclap rune I figured deafening was way too situational to really matter much (if it showed too much power in game let me know). Radiance rune has the "once per dawn" limit instead of needing additional rolls, most of the runes are worded in such a way that they avoid the addition of too many rolls for every single attack and they are then rebalanced in other ways (you still need to hit the enemy you are blinding, and the effect is only doable once per day). Again thank you so much for playing the class and for letting me know about these things!

--Hermetist (talk) 09:40, 29 July 2016 (MDT)

Hey Hermetist! thanks for the reply, to respond to a couple of your questions/statements firstly I will say to have a page locked you must ask an admin and give a reason, if they believe that the reason is acceptable they can lock it for you. Secondly while druid wildshape is strong, what makes the rune-seekers stronger is that you can as that is written have permanent spells such as Protection from Evil and Good, Longstrider, Darkvision, Enlarge/Reduce, Magic Weapon and Spider Climb as an example as permanent spells applied to the entire party. While some of these example are not the best, things like magic weapon, protection from evil and good and spider climb can cause considerable stress in combat and would could make it very hard for the DM to balance 20th level encounters. it strictly outclasses the druid whildshape as you can use it on other people and with spells like suggestion you could have someone under your control permanently. I believe either a limit or maybe make them only able to be spells with a target of self would balance this a lot better.

just read through the radiance rune, it appears i miss read what had been written. That is fine as it is. The way the thunder clap rune is written I believe it could be defiantly abused depend on how the characters play with it, perhaps allow for it to be once per short rest and they are deafened for a number of rounds equal to your int mod or strength mod. It is rather hard to balance classes as you first write them up and finding the time as well is rather stressful, i had this with my first class the Soulknife I really need to make some changes to it but cannot find the time lol.

Thanks for your time cheers --Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 09:17, 30 July 2016 (MDT)

Ok, I don't know any admin, so I'll have to take my time to look into the locking thing, thank you for explaining that to me. You have a point there with the runeseeker being able to apply the spells to the whole party, restricting the permanent spells to yourself sounds like a decent fast solution, however it would be a pity if the runeseeker wasn't able to apply runes to objects and weapons, which is pretty much the main flavor of the runeseeker. Another way to balance things out might be treating the feature similarly to the creation of a magic item. Specific example: using the feature with the spell "Magic Weapon" basically creates a +1 weapon, as it is right now it does it for free and requires no money, but if I balanced it out with the magic item creation rules then it would need 20 days of 8 hours work and 500gp. Requiring days of work and gp to spend sounds like a pretty good compromise to be able to cast certain effect permanently, 20th level adventurers don't have that much time to waste (they do have the money though). I might get back to the thunderclap rune, perhaps just making the defeaning last one round will do the trick, I don't want to complicate a situational secondary effect too much. Also notice that runes use magic item balancing style and as such don't have "per rest" effects, but "until next dawn" effects. Good luck with the Soulknife, it sounds like a pretty interesting class! Thank you again! --Hermetist (talk) 07:44, 31 July 2016 (MDT)