Talk:Rider (5e Class)

Revised

Finally, and hopefully, done with the brainstorming revision of the Rider from dragons to beasts. There might still be some problems here and there but all in all, it is complete. Thinking of making another one of this but more focused on taming monstrosities instead of beasts, might make that as an archetype for this or a whole new class. But anyway, some feedback would be appreciated. Really wanna know if it's too strong, too weak, too unbalanced or did I do a nice job and it has good balance and nice skills as it levels up. Thanks again! -- Bounty13 (talk) 20:58, 29 February 2016 (MST)

Too powerful

First off, a little beside the points, but I think I'd prefer this to be an Ranger archetype rather than a class in itself since it stylistically has many similarities. I also have problems seeing the "beast-bond" part of the class played up much. You bond to a critter on level 1 (quite a powerful critter at level 1 as well), but that's pretty much it for most of the Rider archetypes.

Please read this as my critique; use it or ignore it as you wish.

On to the actual points: Two tool proficiencies and three skills is too much. Thats as much skill versatility as the Rogue, the games skillmeister, and you back this up with a very powerful class that has good defenses, very good too hit, the second most attacks in the game and The extra damage from the weapon is sort-of similar to the Monks Martial arts damage, but much much better. Not only does it deal elemental damage, but it also increases to the point where it deals more extra damage per attack than the monks entire damage for the attack. And with the second Extra Attack ability you attack as many times per round as a Monk does, but without having to spend your bonus action to do so.

The Might-power seems like an unnecessary addon, and I also fail to see how it relates to the class. Also, the cumulation of defensive bonuses isn't something that happens a lot in the system. Shouldn't it be linked to the character being connected to his beast in some way? My suggestion would be to be able to use your reaction to give disadvantage to an attack roll against you as long as a bonded beast is adjacent to the attacking enemy, and do that once per long or shortrest, modeled after the Protection fighting-stance.

The Bestial Combat ability is very powerful. Very, very powerful. Especially since you've already upped the damage with the blade-powers. If you played this and I was your DM I'd kill your beasties round one of every single battle. And then on level 20 you go ahead and make the beast immortal. The only upside is that you have no way of actually controlling the bonded beast within the class, other than granting it an extra attack as a bonus action if you are a Beast Knight, meaning that for most battles the beast will simply run off I guess.

Bladerunner:

Proficiency bonus to defense is the best part of this path. Other than that it simply removes or reduces possible penalties the base class has in some situations. Other than that I think this is slightly boring (not adding anything new to do, but removing a possible hardship) I don't have much to say here.

Mystic Rider:

The Mystic Rider path is like an Eldritch Knight, except much more powerful.
I'd argue that the base abilities of the class, without the path, are at least as powerful as those of a Fighter and probably more. And at that lets see how the Mystic Rider path compares to the Eldritch Knight path of the Fighter:
You get An extra skill profciency (Arcana), advantage on that skill AND advantage on intelligence saving throws. Granted, Intelligence saves are a rare bunch mostly something that has to do with illusions. So the Mystic Rider is for some reason protected against illusions.
You get more cantrips with the Mystic Rider.
You get a bigger spell selection as a Mystic Rider; you get to choose from the same schools as the Eldritch Knight but also Transmutation and conjuration.
You get some really good cleric spells added for good measure where the Eldritch Knight gets to spend one of his known spells on a different school wizard spell.
You get an ability that allows you to cast your highest level spells three extra times per short rest.
AND you get to cast 9th level spells even though you are not a full caster.

Beast Knight:

Compares very much to the Rangers Beastmaster path, but in many ways more powerful.
The powers of the beast differ somewhat.
The Ranger gets to add his proficiency bonus to various of the beasts abilities, and can increase his hp. But the raider can change beasts way easier than the Ranger AND can bond to better beasts than the Ranger. So even though the Ranger can get a wolfie and improve him slightly the Raider can bond to a T-Rex.
The Ranger can us his Attack action to allow his beastie to attack. The Raider uses a Bonus Action for much the same thing. Also, I get the impression that you think the beast is attacking and moving on its own accord. At least it's never mentioned how the beast is supposed to be controlled other than that the Raider communicates with the beast telepathically. Your beast attacks with a +5 to hit, advantage on the roll, has lots of immuniteies, a special fear abilty, is immortal and gets bonuses to attack, damage and savingthrows much like the Rangers pet, but with the noticable adifference that the Rangers bonuses makes its Falcon a bit tougher while your Pterranodon already could fight Dragons before you gave it your bonuses.

All in all I think the class is too powerful, and tries to do to much.
I would remove the Bonded Blade power set completely from the Rider class and rather work it into a Barbarian Path. Obviously the damage of the sword has to be toned down a little. And note that even the Barbarian doesn't have three attacks per round as a standard; that's the Fighters thing. Alternatively the Bonded Blade can be worked into a Fighter path, but again the damage has to be way toned down. Like, possibly all extra damage removed, or reduced to for example +1, and instead change the type of damage, and add some abilities to the blade.

I think the Mystic Rider is very similar to an Arcane Ranger Beast Master, but just much more powerful: Deals more damage on your own, better pets and arguably better spells even though you're supposed to only be 1/3rd spellcaster against the Rangers 1/2 (you get 9th level spells!) I'm not sure I'd do anything about this except Say your Ranger chooses spells differently, uses intelligence and summons a little pet (1/4 CR) instead of having a favored enemy. Maybe get a new ability for the Pet on level 6 (like telepathy and sense-borrowing) and a second pet at level 14.

The Beast Knight-part is the only part that I think could be worthy of a new class, but you have to tone down the Riders part in it all. Make it about the beast, and give the rider abilities that complement the beast. Think what his role should be in the party. Right now he's a heavy striker that has a pal that can also be a striker, depending on how you think you should control the beast.--Wickedragon (talk) 15:45, 23 May 2016 (MDT)

I think you should focus this class into one that literally rides (ie is mounted on) their summoned beast. To that end, it would be cool if you limited it to only one beast at a time, and start with a CR 1/2 or lower. Then let the said beast grow with you via ASIs or something similar. That way you can flavour the subclasses as different kinds of mounted combatants (magic casting, tough, coordinated, etc). You did name the class "rider" after all. As for flavour, you could paint it like the paladin spell Find Steed in that it's a spirit you've bonded with that can take a certain shape. That way the ability to resurrect the creature if it dies makes more sense.

Gotcha thanks for the critique, my friend. I was thinking that it was rather powerful so thank you for pointing out the things that made it so. --Bounty13 (talk) 05:07, 18 June 2016 (MDT)