Talk:Mystic Warden (3.5e Class)

hey guys creator of the class here please do not make any edits to the page but i welcome advice for the class and variants are also welcome thank you for your time and have a nice day --AmericanSephiroth (talk) 21:19, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Please sign your posts with four tildes. Gekkouga (talk) 12:16, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

oh sorry i didn't know how to do this my bad --AmericanSephiroth (talk) 21:19, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Can I request that this page be prevented from being edited or touched by anyone but me? this is the creator of the page speaking --AmericanSephiroth (talk) 19:49, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Technically yes, ideally no. When you submit things to this wiki, you release it under a license that allows others to modify it. As it says on every edit page : "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here.". Marasmusine (talk) 16:04, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

well this is fine by me see i originally made that request when i felt another user would mess with my pages i had felt perhaps they may deface the page because i had gotten into an argument with them my bad--AmericanSephiroth (talk) 21:27, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Also again for the record i don't care if anyone wants to make adjustments to the class in their own campaign or anything and one of the easier ways to tone this class down is just remove it's spell casting if that is too much but please do that as a variant if you would be so kind the class is meant to be modular so removing something will not cause it to collapse in game but this was the original vision of the class straight from the creator's(me) mouth "the class is designed to be a boss slayer while being slow and easy to hit with very little options for retreat this class is meant to be a diversion of the enemies attention and take one hell of a beating this class has massive restrictions on how it can be played and is at later levels meant to be a guardian angel for the party a true immovable wall and is designed to counter "rocket-tag" play styles where the first hit wins because i personally find that boring if anyone has any advice to improve this class WITHOUT compromising this vision i would love to hear it"--AmericanSephiroth (talk) 23:29, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

for example of what this class is designed for here is an except from another class i helped build the only real difference being is this class i designed basically all of the other one i had much less of a hand in this is quoted from [[1]]

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""""How much more difficult? How does CR change? This will help us work out how balanced the class is against the new CRs

Do all the players have to be a demon brawler for this campaign, then? Or can they be other classes? Are the other classes also suitably overpowered?

If CR 10 is now the equivalent of CR 1, say, why not just leave CR as it is and have players start at level 10?

Or you could make a balanced class as a baseline, then give all the players a suite of features to help them cope with the campaign. Marasmusine (talk) 14:01, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Ok I see your point and i will answer these as best i can

1, how much more difficult? on average most encounters in the campaign it was designed for (mine originally) have between 2-6 cr more than normal and many of the enemies have inflated stats, numbers, or both

2, no not everyone has to be a demon brawler for the campaign they can be other classes and usually are on some level of equality power wise and if they are not i tend to give magic items and xp/stat points out like candy anyways if 1 player seems to be pulling ahead of the rest of the party and all of the current classes in said campaign are on this wiki and most didn't or don't have balance disclaimers

3, While that is possible many of the bosses and things i throw at the party would likely have massive crs that would be hard to pin down i make all of my own boss encounters by hand and use pre-made stuff for other encounters i'll give an example at the bottom

4, I honestly have tried and that is why i have done so much extra work with this and it is honestly hard to make a balanced class considering how lopsided the balance already is in 3.5e in favor of casters so i wished to attempt to create a melee combatant that could actually deal with problems other than just saying let the wizard/sorcerer deal with it all by like level 20. also i do give the party lots of bonus feature or at least try to but half the party wanted less things to keep track of and my friend who i made this for didn't want a mountain of things to keep tabs on since he said magic users had too much work to handle for his taste so this class distills that into a powerful but easier to use form especially considering magic caster's could say polymorph themselves into like a goddamned elder wyrm or something

Example of last boss players fought in my campaign

Havoc Construct(tbh i never actually gave it a name consider this a place holder): has roughly 5-6k hp (on average it uses d100s for hp rolls), 175 strength (bases all it's attacks off this including its magical damage attacks), inflicts fort dc 45+ curses with each attack, average damage is in triple digits, has several unique attacks, can summon allies, has dr 55, takes 25% less damage from all sources unless it's a crit (it has an exposed weak spot), immune to ranged (read as bows,crossbows,guns) attacks unless they are both called shots and critical hits (is unique construct), will immediately get a turn and counter attack whoever uses magical damage on it, immune to rust/disintegration/instant death, also regenerates 35hp per action (for both it and any player) unless you destroy a hidden object in it's room

this was the shorter version i could make an actual page for it but i didn't want to throw an extra template on here to make this page huge so do you see now my original point there is basically no normal class or party that has a realistic chance against this monster and i'll admit i have a weakness for kaiju battles like this so i hope this clears everything up--AmericanSephiroth (talk) 21:21, 7 June 2017 (UTC)""""

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hopefully this gets the point across

Same points that I brought up at the other class: You haven't provided a framework for the nature of the campaign; you can use the existing mechanic of Level Adjustment.

Furthermore, I don't see the justification for using a nonstandard save progression. What is the rationale for Fort and Will to start 1 point less than normal Strong progression at 1st level, but end up 1 point greater at 20th level? Marasmusine (talk) 09:59, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Ok i think i can try to level with you on this. 1st what Exactly are you asking for as a framework? because what i can tell you about the campaign without boring you with minutia is the idea of my campaigns is everyone is stronger than normal (monsters are far more so with the exception of a few npcs) and when i tried to socket normal classes into the campaign they did not fit very well with the story-line and were as a whole struggling to accomplish anything without me force feeding it to them as GM so i decided to turn to homebrew classes and since i personally could not find one i liked for a campaign i was playing in and i also needed to find one for another player who was being a bit difficult with me i created this class it is a modular (that means features can be removed without bricking the class) class that is meant to be played like a very strict paladin with a few "kryptonite" features to balance it out in fact once read through it has some rather serious weaknesses and was overall designed by me to bypass some things i felt were annoying in dnd 3.5 (the tendency towards "rocket tag" in later battles and also very early on, the fact that other than clerics whom i have a personal distaste for no class really possesses any DECENT healing capability and certainly no self sustaining capability, ill admit paladins came to mind but i will never play LG it gets waaaay to cheesy for me most of the time) and remember i said this before, this class is designed as a boss killer for a campaign with boss enemies that will very often smear the party across the floor if ill prepared. this class is designed for combating singular, large, and very tough foes but is designed to be very feast or famine feeling, and at later levels is meant to be an "idiot wrangler" to help keep the party in line and act as a guardian angel to let other's have the glory this is why it doesn't gain much more in raw power but gains more defensive options to tank for everyone this class with it's painful speed and since most of it's abilities are designed to be used with another ability active means it is designed to be surrounded and swarmed and survive that.ok i got a little off topic there i hope i laid out everything clearly about this class and the circumstances which birthed it. also to your second point i will avoid using a level adjustment at all costs because that means in most campaigns it is unusable in any form because most campaigns stop at 20 so i may as well not have even made abilities for all the levels past a certain point especially since most of this class can essentially just be modified to suit the users needs

about the save progression though does there really need to be a justification for a slightly different save progression? i just felt it would make the character feel different without massively impacting most games and i really didn't think that it would matter much since we are on a wiki where i'm fairly certain there is literally a damned batman class (even if there isn't there are some ripped straight from dark souls and final fantasy) so i think perhaps you may be nitpicking at this point but i honestly don't have any desire to offend--AmericanSephiroth (talk) 16:56, 14 June 2017 (UTC)