Talk:Mana Creature (5e Race)

Size: I think should be limited by level AND maybe limited from tiny to medium sized only. Or maybe like one size bigger per 5 levels...

Insubstantial: I think you might want to put limits on it like the xray vision kind of limits...cause someone is bound to complain about it.

Changing Form: Again this is bound to get you noticed and commanded to change this to something like one alternate form you can use equal to your wisdom modifier. I would say the form has to be familiar based.

Other than that this is similar to something i have seen recently, except i like this version a little better, mostly.

OK, thank you for your feedback. will change now - Gio

There are still a few problems with the race, but the class is not hopeless

Ability Score Increase. should be reduced to +3 int, +1 wis or +2 int, +1 wis, or just +3 int with the last two options being preferable

Insubstantial. difficult terrain part should be removed because you can fly and not affected by terrain; the fly through obstacles part should be clarified to make a intelligence check of 15 for every round you are moving through a solid object; resistance to physical damage clarified to resistance to non-magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage; you would also have an immunity not resistance against drowning or suffocating unless the race still breaths?

Made of Magic. damage should be upped to 2d6 for the whole effect or should be 1d6 for each effect as in 1d6 to cast a spell without a spell slot, 1d6 to cast a spell without materials, and 1d6 to cast a spell with halve the casting time; unhindered concentration is bad, their are a number of ways to change this, you can maybe concentrate on 2 spells at one time, you can have advantage on concentration checks, or you can change your concentration check to a DC equals 10 or third/fourth the damage you take instead of 1/2, whichever number is higher.

Absorption. 2nd part is broken, maybe clarify whether it absorbs the entire spell or you just gain the levels without ending spell? Any way this is VERY Powerful and probably needs removing entirely

Changing Form. Maybe limit to your int modifier number of times per day also

Spell Trained. Not sure how to feel about this, I am worried if you are a spell caster with up to 9th level spells you could take spells from ranger, paladin, or bard and have lower level spells that what the spell is that you have. Maybe limit to wizards, warlocks, druids, sorcerers only, also to clarify I am not worried about the cantrips part. I am worried about 2 level one spells of any class and the one level two spell of any class, you might want to remove specify that part of spell trained.

Force Claws. You are made of magic your claws should NOT do 1d8 damage, should be changed to 1d4 or removed

Languages. should change supernal to Primordial, infernal, or celestial, supernal is a god only language, Primordial would probably work the best

For height and weight you might want to do ballparks for at least weight in the traits above so people have an idea about what your carry weight is ex. 20-50 lbs.

I will mention it if anything else that comes up that needs addressing --Blobby383b (talk) 19:46, 21 June 2017 (MDT)

As of now the class in very close to being balanced with maybe on 1 or 2 minor tweaks needed for the class to be balanced, for now I will be removing the first part of insubstantial which is (You are a being of magic, and you are insubstantial. You may fly through solid obstacles if you make a Intelligence Check with a DC of 15 for every round you move through solid objects. Upon failure, you are shunted off to the nearest open space and take 1d6 points of force damage per 5 feet traveled.) if I every end up adding it back to the race, but for now it poses too many problems with the items you are carrying, balance of the class, and for basically being overpowered movement out of grapples, being pinned, ect.

With that part removed the race has finally been completed after all traits being nerfed in some sort of way from what was originally available. If you have any questions about this race, just ask me about adding explanations, or anything else you might inquire about.

--Blobby383b (talk) 20:10, 24 June 2017 (MDT)

Hello, sorry, it's me again.

• Type. It seems unlikely that this is Humanoid type (even if they are humanoid in shape). If this is changed (to Monstrosity? see the type descriptions in the MM), it should be considered in the balance.

• "You do not need to breathe" is standard wording that covers drowning and suffocation.
• Did you think about how this race works with class choice? You roll a check every time you pick up a solid object. Lots of extra die rolls can be a problem. Every time a wizard reaches into their spell component pouch, or a ranger draws an arrow, they have to roll to see if they don't get to do that this turn. And on non-combat tasks, you would just roll repeatedly until you pass the check.
• Self-Damage-For-Benefit features need to be really careful.
  • "non-heaing spell" isn't a game definition.
  • you can't predict what might grant a PC immunity to force damage. If this is somehow achieved, the PC can cast unlimited spells.
  • how does "cast a spell with halve the casting time" work? You can't have 0.5 ½ an action.
  • does eschewing the Material component extend to components that have a GP value, or components that are specifically consumed?
  • Rather than missing with the Concentration formula, why not just give them advantage on those checks?
  • Have you considered how many additional spells a typical spellcaster can cast if they are prepared to, say, devote half their HP to this?
• Magic Soul. The party enters a dungeon room with an antimagic field. DM:"Okay, Johnny Mana Creature, you don't get to play the game for a bit."
• Why do they know Draconic?
• "per long rest" should be "You regain the uses of this feature when you finish a long rest."
  • Again with the DC check. You would just repeat this until it succeeds (or you run out of uses).
• Rating: Fly speed (2), resistance to very common damage type (2, 2, 2), doesn't breathe (1), made of magic (unclear as not balanced yet, provisionally 1), changing form (1), extra cantrip (0.5); Total = 11.5 (the goal for a balanced race is 4.5). Marasmusine (talk) 02:33, 25 June 2017 (MDT)

Thank you for the help, I made many of the suggestions you made as well as clarified a number of issues including adding a some description into society into why they can speak draconic. I changed Made of Magic to be able to cast only non-evocation spells excluding regenerate to prevent the use of healing spells and other damage spells that would make Made of Magic overpowered. Also how to I know what flying speed score is according to your race power level, is it always 2 or would reducing the speed back to 20 reduce this to 1? --Blobby383b (talk) 10:58, 25 June 2017 (MDT)

It's worth a lot just being able to go up out of melee reach and pepper foes with ranged attacks. (It has less worth at higher levels, routine flight is expected from 5th level onwards when the fly spell comes into play). I've added a design notes link to the guideline.

Returning to the damage-for-benefit, not all hit-point restoration spells are evocations (5e SRD:Wish springs to mind). Might I suggest having this expend hit dice instead of hit points? That way you don't have to make these exceptions about spell types and damage types. Marasmusine (talk) 13:26, 25 June 2017 (MDT)

I would favour not having any kind of "drain" like this. Maybe just give them some charges to expend. Marasmusine (talk) 13:31, 25 June 2017 (MDT)

A charges idea is great for something as complex as free spells and I could potentially limit it only lower level spells as well. As for the flying, I knew of the fly spell I just didn't know per say how powerful a flying racial trait is. I will at least look into changing Made of Magic to be a charge based trait and will reconsider flight on this race before reevaluating the power of this race. --Blobby383b (talk) 14:18, 25 June 2017 (MDT)

After looking at the flying options closer, I believe having you float 5ft off of the ground would be option that works the best with this race. Also reworked Made of Magic to a charge based system, but I could probably do with rewording it. --Blobby383b (talk) 15:10, 25 June 2017 (MDT)

It's looking better! Marasmusine (talk) 15:46, 25 June 2017 (MDT)

For rating, would the hovering above the ground be worth 1, or something else if it is slow hovering, and also would changing you form with no benefit still be worth 1 point? Also changed made of magic to two because of balance.

Rating: Hover speed (1), doesn't breathe (1), made of magic (2), changing form (1), extra cantrip (0.5); Total = 5.5

Also, I don't know how to thank you enough for helping me through the muck that was this original race, I believe the rating was originally somewhere along the lines of 20-30 based on all the work I had already done and the race was still at 11.5. I hope to finally be done with this race and will continue to work on other pages after this that are hopefully a bit easier.

Yes, I would rate "fly 25 ft. (hover; altitude limit 5 ft.)" as a 1.

One thing to note about made of magic is that it is only of use to spellcasters. Races shouldn't force a player too heavily to take certain classes. I would move made of magic to a subrace, then make another subrace with some other feature. Marasmusine (talk) 10:45, 26 June 2017 (MDT)

That gives me a few more ideas for the class that, that I can look into that are not spell caster only. I will continue to update it and look into a rough idea of a new sub-race, I am thinking along the lines of a free magic or air elemetalish sub-race with made of magic for the original and another sub-race of basically crystalized mana that could have a few unique properties. I will bring up anything else that comes up and will continue to work on this race in the mean time. --Blobby383b (talk) 13:01, 26 June 2017 (MDT)

Changed Mana Creature to two different sub-races, the new sub-race being much simpler in design than the other sub-race. Could use a read through to ensure I didn't leave anything too unbalanced or messed up on wording something. As always, I am happy to work the class. --Blobby383b (talk) 14:07, 26 June 2017 (MDT)