Talk:Machine Mutant (Dragon Ball Supplement)

I got caught wildly off guard by this. I had just finished an entire page filled with traits and features after about an hour and a half, and when I tried submitting it, this post took priority and wiped out all of my work. Happy to see others are invested in GT and this race in general though lmao. I'll attempt to recreate what I can. I had originally planned on making the Neo Machine Mutant a subrace, but I've started to realize they're so vastly different from the normal Machine Mutant that decided to just create the Neo Machine Mutant itself. There's really nothing that carries over other than Liquefaction. Jotting this down while my old work is still fresh in my mind, these are the things I had as traits:

Regeneration (I took and reworded the Majin's version since they're ultimately very similar), I gave them a lack of aging effect and the ability to breathe in space, I also gave them the ability to learn Liquefaction without meeting the prerequisites while having it be a fundamental technique (might change that). After I finish readding my traits, I'm going to go to the Martial Artist section and create a new version of Possession centered around the Neo Machine Mutant variant.

Yo!.. sorry about that, but in my case, the page was clean, without any thing.... but hey! atleast we know how to go on it. about Neo Machines and normal Machines, they can work like Sub-Races, while in base they will have same abilitys, related to technology (like having a Ray Gun attached to them, have advantage to interact with other machines and such), while Neo-Machines would have more Baby/Kamin/Orin related features.

About the Neo-Machine Possession, i already once did it something akin to it. here:

Tuffle Parasite

Cost: 12 ki points

As an action, a creature you can touch must attempt a Wisdom saving trow. If it fails, it has the Hallucinating condition. At the start of its next turn, the creature must attempt an Intelligence Saving trow, ignoring the effects of Hallucinating. If they fail, they are still Hullucinating. At the start of their next turn, they must attempt a Charisma saving trow. On failure, it is completely controlled by you.

The creature becomes an obedient servant to you and will follow your commands as an absolute truth, but can still question actions that would bring injury or negative effects to itself. Creatures you have controlled with this Technique are counted as Charmed when you are not parasitising them.

You can parasitise the body of one of the creatures you control while it is in this state. During parasitisation, you can use the creature's physical stats instead of your own for rolls and have access to all of its features. You can only parasitise one creature at a time, as soon as you decide to parasitise another, you automatically leave the one you were originally parasitising.

While parasitising a creature, you become a single being with characteristics reminiscent of both participants.

---Midalos (talk) 18:32, 8 November 2024 (MST)

I like the base of the idea. I'll most likely rework it and try to balance it with Absorption so the two aren't to off in power, but with how Absorption works it could take me awhile to make sure one doesn't fully overpower the other. I appreciate the help with this. Don't worry too much about the erasure, I've managed to re-add most of my old ideas. I think the issue just stems from me submitting mine around the same time (or right before?) yours.

Yeah i think it's something like this. About the Parasite, i think its very balanced as while absorption you gain a bonus to your scores and can have multiples at the same time, the Parasite is more about the ideia of getting one creature as your "main" body to use it (just as Baby used Vegeta's Body near to 100% of his time after parasiting Vegeta) and maybe have small group of creatures under your command. (Anyway, if ya want to talk about the setting, call me on Discord: elldasm.w)

For the time being I'm going to reset the page to read as Neo-Machine Mutant in other places since I'm still learning how formatting works, and I'm not sure how to change the name itself to just Neo Machine Mutant. The reason for this is that I have 0 plans to create any other kind of Machine Mutant, but I don't want to request deletion if it's not necessary or cause more hassle for anyone else. For now, I've reworked everything to revolve exclusively around Neo Machine Mutants, so I'm going to begin working on abilities in the Martial Artist class. Spooks2222 (talk) 19:23, 8 November 2024 (MST)

Thank you for adding Regeneration. It had completely slipped my mind when I was adding the traits. I went back and reworded Tuffleization and the Tuffle Parasite on the Martial Artist page. Pretty proud of how everything turned out. I'll run some balance tests over the next week or so and see how the class scales.

my only concern at the moment is the part about hybridising a demon and having the potara bonuses (because I don't remember heroes very well, I'll have to rewatch it) and the way the parasite ability is written, it seems that you can create a parasite in a creature, using another creature that's already been parasitised.

What can be added to avoid confusion, is that you can leave a parasitised creature and it is now in the possession effect of the class itself, until you return to it and having a limit being the already placed of parasitised creatures that you can leave and enter at any time.

Also, no problem bruv, i just love the setting and want to get this to it's best.

From what I remember, when Baby possessed Janemba and Hatchiyack he fused with them in a more permanent fashion. That's the main reason I went with Potara fusion, but it might be much more fair to have it as a permanent Metamoran Fusion Dance. I do also agree it could be busted to have two Tuffles, both with their host body combined with their own, fusing together to create a Potara level fusion. So to mitigate that, I think I'll reduce it to Metamoran fusion so the numbers stay MUCH lower. It won't entirely solve the issue, but ultimately the only way this could be abused is if the Game Master running the session allows two players to abuse it. Otherwise it should be safe for normal play. Spooks2222 (talk) 20:15, 8 November 2024 (MST)

Tuffle Changes

I noticed the stuff I had added was changed again in the Martial Artist tab. I'm not too sure what issues you have with Demons permanently fusing with Tuffles. Demons are strong, but with the way that I intentionally built the ability, it would be very hard to exploit. You'd have issues with Saiyans much sooner than you'd have issues with Demons, because Saiyans can reach naturally MUCH higher numbers due to their abilities. Compare a Tuffleized Legendary Saiyan, or even just a normal Saiyan with no tuffle abilities to a Demon Fusion, the Saiyan will win 9 times out of 10 due to their wider variety of options and boosts earlier and late game. I don't think there's any reason to remove it. It's "canon" (as canon as anything in DBH can be), and it isn't as busted as I think you might be interpreting it, especially after you lowered the fusion's power to that of the metamo ring. That part I actually liked, because it feels more natural. I started this as somewhat of a passion project since I'm a big fan of GT, but every time I come back to continue working on things or make sure they're balanced, I'm finding the stuff I added altered or entirely removed. I still would like feedback, but I'd also appreciate being able to not worry too much about changes being made before I can even test how strong they are. Spooks2222 (talk) 17:45, 9 November 2024 (MST)

Edit: I don't want to sacrifice accuracy for "balance" when we've already hit a fantastic sweet spot with what is and isn't strong. You can create any two characters to test it and see that they don't stack up to the same level as some other races even with their benefits. Neo Machine Mutants already don't have that many features, I don't want to cut even more of it when there's nothing that truly makes it busted without the DM forcefully giving their players every tool to make it busted. I wouldn't change Potara earrings to be weaker just because they have the potential to be OP just because a Majin player might absorb a ton of people, then fuse with a Bio-Android that's absorbed a ton of people. It's possible to break anything. Let's just leave it up to the DMs to decide what works for their campaigns. Spooks2222 (talk) 18:00, 9 November 2024 (MST)

Don't Worry about me going crazy on your work, cuz i really like them, it's just i maybe... spend too much time reading this class and setting, so i notice a lot of possible combos and/or ways to "exploit" to rules, they usually end being nothing crazy to worry....anyway, i really love GT and Heroes (As a Raditz enjoyer, SSJ3 Raditz vs Turles was peak), so i see all your work with good eyes and really like them, really good job bruv! ----Midalos (talk) 18:25, 9 November 2024 (MST)

I appreciate it. I know it doesn't come from a bad place. I actually really like how you reworded the Tuffleization to show the Fusion benefits below it, when beforehand I only wrote it to just say "This is the same as Metamoran Fusion." One project that I do want to work on next is maybe adding the Shenron race from GT, but that might be awhile away since I have to do a lot more in-depth research on how they function. Thanks for the support Spooks2222 (talk) 18:41, 9 November 2024 (MST)

About the Dragon Race, i... don't think we have info about it to make a race of it (atleast, not like Saiyans, frost demons or namekian), but maybe we should focus into the Alien Race, as this race would allow to make most of the less explored races (Jiren, Beerus, Bojack and 100% of the GT Aliens races).

I see the Alien Race more like a "Build Your Own" type, as it only has "1" feature that allows you pick more racial features and the more you level up, they get stronger (just like humans and cerealians have features that increase it's power with time), like the Rubber Head Alien that was used in place like before, but as i said, having features that evolve with time. ----Midalos (talk) 18:49, 9 November 2024 (MST)

The alien race would be about the same in terms of info at that point. My general idea with the Dragon race was that you'd be able to pick between a few subraces similar to how the Shadow Dragons are themed around pollution, fire, earth, and whatever Syn Shernon is. Then I'd add forms which increase your power based on however many number of Dragon Balls you had at the time, and with each one you collect you can gain new features from the other subraces along with strict stat buffs. Main issues with this would be "Can they be any dragon balls?" "Does the type influence the level of power you gain?" stuff like that. Circling back though, I do think the general alien race could use a rework. I don't think I'd be able to do it myself honestly. I feel like it's incredibly customizable, and I don't think I could ever account for all the options you could create. I think interpreting original Dragon Ball works is way easier for my current skill level in 5th edition homebrew. Spooks2222 (talk) 19:17, 9 November 2024 (MST)