Talk:Kamui (4e Race)

- just edited the race for balance. changelog is:

   -weakened the bonuses gained from synchronization
   -increased level requirements for some bonuses
   -clarified how the status of the Kamui as "clothing people" affects their ability to use normal weapons and armor.
   -changed wording on some powers to make them make more sense

The bonuses are still too high. Attack bonuses do not scale to level like this. Allowing someone to have two standard actions a turn every turn is problematic, particularly if the kamui still gets a standard action to attack with. Allow me to offer this:

Symbiotic Link	Kamui Racial Power
You find a target, and attempt to fuse your will and power with its, a move which can leave you both stronger than ever or gasping for life
Encounter
Standard Action	Melee touch
Target: One ally
Effect: You combine with the target. You occupy the same space as the target, and move with the target when it moves. This state lasts until you or the target ends it as a minor action, or until the end of the encounter. When the combination ends you move to an empty square adjacent to the target. While you are combined, you cannot independently move. You can use the symbiotic attack power. Your target gains a +1 bonus to AC, and if your target is hit by an attack you can choose to take half of the damage instead of your target.

Symbiotic Attack	Kamui Racial Power
{{{flavor}}}
At-Will
Standard Action	Personal
Target: The ally you have combined with.
Effect: The target makes a basic attack. If the attack hits, it deals an extra 2 damage. Level 11: 4 damage. Level 21: 6 damage.

Marasmusine (talk) 03:15, 19 February 2014 (MST)

Since there's no reply, I've gone ahead and made some changes. Marasmusine (talk) 04:24, 9 March 2014 (MDT)

I added a feat, Cloth Whip (4e Feat). Marasmusine (talk) 04:39, 9 March 2014 (MDT)

redid a ton of the workings, practically a full rewrite on some things. I thank (talk) for some of his contributions, and apologize for not reacting to your suggestions, I was away from a computer for a couple weeks.

What about all the prerequisite/requirement fields I added for the utility powers?

Thread Disguise/Symbiote is still overpowered. Being able to occupy the same square as an ally is already a big deal with respect to tactical combat. If your host is in a flanking position, now you both are. It reduces the chance of blocking terrain preventing multiple characters attacking an enemy. You can teleport another character when you normally would be disallowed (by the way, the host cannot spend a move action on your turn).

On top of this, you have the encounter power. On duration: You can activate it at the start of the encounter, it lasts all encounter, then you can do it again the next encounter, so it's not an encounter power, it's at-will. It grants +2 to all attack rolls, all the time, which is huge, and the +d4 to damage rolls. If you are wearing plate armor, now suddenly your wizard chum is wearing plate armor, so that's a +8 AC bonus. Every round.

On terminology, thread disguise would be "melee touch", and symbiote would be "melee 0". It doesn't clarify that you occupy the same square as your host, and it doesn't say where you go when the effect ends. The term for "asleep, paralyzed, etc)" is Helpless, have a look at the different conditions in the Player's Handbook - there isn't a "paralyzed" condition. Attaching to an unwilling host means a new set of clarifications - can the host attack you, and so on. Marasmusine (talk) 01:39, 10 March 2014 (MDT)

If there's no reply, I'll go ahead and re-do my fixes. Marasmusine (talk) 02:34, 13 March 2014 (MDT)

I attempted to re-add the prerequisite/requirement fields, but they did not show up for some reason. I'm changing the stances back to daily powers, I get why you say that they're OP. I will attempt to clarify better in the descriptions of some of the powers

Thread Disguise is getting rather complicated, there must be a simpler solution. 164.38.32.28 10:12, 13 March 2014 (MDT)

you told me to clarify how things work more clearly, and then complain that they are too complicated? please don't ask for more info and then less.

There are ways of clarifying without complicating, 4e is about elegance and abstraction. Thread Disguise mixes two different situations. Combining with a willing creature is different to combining with an unwilling creature. The latter involves an attack roll, so it's an attack power. Couldn't that initial Strength or Dexterity check actually be the grab roll, then follow the normal rules for grabs for escaping and moving? Then that whole "special" paragraph is uneeded.

One possibility is that you describe just what happens when you combine with a willing ally, and then have the attack-grab-power aspect separately in a feat or utility power.

Symbiote is still granting bonuses that are inappropriate for sustained use. +2 attack and +d4 damage and defense bonuses and transfering damage would be too much even for an encounter power that only lasted one round.

Sorry that I keep getting at this, it's just that you have such cool ideas here and I want to see the mechanics done right. Marasmusine (talk) 03:00, 14 March 2014 (MDT)

Any thoughts? Marasmusine (talk) 07:43, 20 March 2014 (MDT)

I've been brainstorming some ideas for balance, I plan on writing them in soon. the update should come by the end of the day, tell me what you think when i put it up. and as for the idea of having the grab power on enemies as a feat, I would actually love that, but I don't know how to make racial feat pages. If you could design the feat and link it to here in the racial feats section, it would be awesome.

I've rewritten thread disguise and added two feats - Bound Disguise (4e Feat) and Forced Disguise (4e Feat). I've also tried to address what happens when forced movement occurs.

The feats are not appearing in the feat list. I don't know why. The Cloth Whip feat appeared when I first made it, now its gone. I'll look into it. Fixed it. Marasmusine (talk) 02:20, 24 March 2014 (MDT)

Also added Cloth Grab (4e Feat).

For now I have removed the ability to force a grabbed foe to make a basic attack, since that shouldn't be taken lightly, particularly in the case of solo creatures. It could be moved to a feat or utility power. Probably also restrict it to melee. Marasmusine (talk) 03:18, 24 March 2014 (MDT)

We need to look at Thread Manipulation next. At the moment it's vague, a sort of "special effect" that belongs in the description rather than a trait - it requires interpretation to use - for example I understand what you mean by "You cannot make something stronger or more durable than yourself," but "durability" isn't an attribute that things have in 4e D&D. Sunrods, trail rations and ritual books are all mundane items, can I make those? A coiled up 50' rope is a mundane item that fits in your square, but what happens if you uncoil it? Marasmusine (talk) 02:57, 24 March 2014 (MDT)

I get what you mean with the "mundane item" vague-ness... I will attempt to clarify it better. Also, thank you for those feats, they are fantastic additions.