Talk:Hunter of Artemis (5e Class)
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What are the anti-5e mechanics that the edit is referring to?
- To clarify, what I call an "anti-5e mechanic" is a mechanic that was deliberately designed out of 5th edition.
- I'll go through with a bit more detail in my following post. Marasmusine (talk) 10:48, 9 April 2019 (MDT)
- Two common saves instead of one common and one uncommon.
- "wolf companion" as equipment is not explained.
- "you lose all of your features and drop to level 1" - I'm sure you can think of a better way of doing this.
- "Spellcasting" and "Preparing and casting spells" needs unifying. It also doesn't say what spells are known or how spells are gained.
- The scaling of the quantity of "hunter dice" is strange as it adds together two level-scaled numbers. It ranges from 2 at 1st level to 16 at 20th level. It makes me wonder why it's not just dice = level (like ki points or sorcerer points), or scaled like a fighter's superiority dice.
- Speed attack consumes hunter dice but also has a number of uses between rests, which is inelegant. It's also inadvisable to grant extra actions in this way. A fighter/hunter with 3 extra attacks, rolling a 4 for speed attack, can make 16 attacks. That's crazy even at 1 use per rest.
- Stay Determined, here's where the round-counting is. 5e doesn't have things like "1d4 rounds later" in its philosophy of reducing bookkeeping. Instead you would make a die roll each turn to determine if a duration ends (like a monster's recharge, or a duration spell's saving throws).
- Surge. Again, you need to look at the quantity of hunter dice. A fighter might get one or two action surges between long rests, while the hunter gets up to 16 extra attacks between rests.
- I'm not sure why the hunter dice are called "hunter dice" since they don't specify any kind of dice.
- More to come. Marasmusine (talk) 11:02, 9 April 2019 (MDT)
- Wilderness Resistance should specify which damage resistances can be taken. It would be inappropriate for them to take damage resistance to bludgeoning, slashing, piercing, psychic, force or radiant damage.
- Clear-Minded mentions "roll the Hunter die" but again, we don't know what a hunter die is or how the result is applied.
- "This feature requires a long rest to recharge." -> "You regain the use of this feature when you finish a long rest."
- Mental prowess. If it's mental prowess, why are we adding Dexterity modifier?
- Lieutenant of Artemis. Is that critical range for all attacks, including spells? If so, that's really powerful.
- Need to cut it short here, will add more later. Marasmusine (talk) 11:08, 9 April 2019 (MDT)
I already fixed a few of these issues before you replied, mainly the round counting bit and the extra actions (I included the fact it is like the haste spell). Also, it does and always has stated that a hunter die is a d6.
- I can't see where it says a hunter die is a d6. So I tried searching the page, and the only d6 mentioned is under "Healing Knowledge." I also still do not know what the relevance of the die is with respect to the "hunter skill" you gain at 2nd level, since you "expend" it but not roll it. Marasmusine (talk) 12:02, 9 April 2019 (MDT)
- Superior Hunter should probably say something more like "You can use your bonus action to make an attack with a shortbow or longbow as a bonus action. You can draw the weapon as part of this action. "
- For the "deflect arrows" feature I suggest a mechanic similar to, well, Deflect Missiles. This way there's a distinction between deflecting a tiny dart or a massive ballista bolt. Marasmusine (talk) 12:09, 9 April 2019 (MDT)
- Also look out for missing actions, ranges, etc. For example, with Healing Knowledge, we don't know if this uses an action or takes 1 minute, and it doesn't say where the other creature needs to be (within 5 feet? And presumably you need to able to see the target.). Marasmusine (talk) 12:20, 9 April 2019 (MDT)
You seem to skim over some of the details you criticize. I was going to edit the hunter die, the healing knowledge, and your earlier complaint on it not saying what spells they can learn, and on all of those 3 instances, I came across the answer, already there. In the order I brought them up: d6, it says bonus action, and ranger spells
I have also addressed some of your other issues with the class and wish to know if it's now better.
- The d6 is appearing as of the edit at 18:23, so I got confused why you said "it does and always has stated" this. I still don't know what the relevance of it is with respect the features for which you expend one. None of them (as far as I can tell) roll the die or use its result.
- "You can use this ability once for every long rest." needs to read "You can use this ability again when you finish a long rest." Otherwise you could interpret it as "well, I've taken 10 long rests, so I can use it 10 times."
- As for the ranger spells, you need to say which ranger spells they know at 1st level, and how they learn new spells, and how it works with their spell slots. You could just simply copy the SRD text for the 5e SRD:Ranger for this. As it is written now, they can cast any ranger spell, and regardless of its level. Marasmusine (talk) 14:56, 9 April 2019 (MDT)
For those last two, I believe it is assumed that the users of this class have common sense.=
- Many of the comments above have been changed or at least edited in some way, whether that be from myself or Marasmusine.
Changes from Last Discussion
- There is now a common and uncommon save, this was considered to be Str and Dex before, but with the path of the class, Str and Wis might be an option due to the features linking towards more of a god, rather than a person's speed, or Dexterity.
- When a Hunter loss their features, it has been adjusted to be more like turning into a Ranger of the same level, simply without the natural explorer and so on.
- Spellcasting has been adjusted to be more along the lines of a paladin in Ranger's clothes. Where spells can be prepared, and a spell list formed, with the majority being Ranger, but with a few changes.
- Hunter's Die has had a complete change where the options rely more on what is actually is, and all of that free action, or gaining too many attacks has been changed, however they are still up to being adjusted for more flavor.
- Wilderness Resistance has been changed to the element types, including Necrotic and such.
- Later level features had been changed by Marasmusine (talk) 12:20, 9 April 2019 (MDT)
- A non animal option had been added into the starting equipment
- Fighting style added in, along with an adjustment of some of the levels for features.
- Rewording and balancing for the subclasses, and later levels where they could be misunderstood