Talk:Hermetic Mage (5e Class)

I asked very nicely for no one to edit this class...now I need to return it to what it was before...thank you

This page should include the "(5e Class)" identifier. SirSprinkles (talk) 12:23, 17 December 2016 (MST)

Hello, fellow wikian! I just stumbled upon your page, and the concept is very interesting, I should tell you. I am a big fan of fantasy genre in general, and from what I see, clearly hermetic magic is underrated - which is why I kinda like what you did here. However, here are some comments and suggestions I'd like to share with you:

• Proficiencies. I think it's all neatly prepared, save for one thing: There is no defined "scribing tools" in 5th edition. From what I see, the supplies given in either the scholar's pack or explorer's pack will be enough to substitute it.

• Equipment. One simple question: Why no component pouch? From what I see, it's not that hermetic mage can cast a spell without material component.

• Hermetic Casting. Okay, I'd like to make some questions on this, including the cantrips known and other features related to spellcasting.

First of all, why so many cantrips? Note that cantrips are, at best, little better than other effects from nonmagical methods, and definitely limited than 1st-level spells. I'm afraid to say this, but knowing 15 cantrips are not as much as strong or useful as knowing two or three 5th-level spells, or even one 9th-level spell by the time you gain that much cantrips. This makes hermetic mage very weak at higher levels, and even compared to sorcerers, a 1st-level hermetic mage is less versatile (see below).

I acknowledge that the concept of hermetic mage's spellcasting is "less spells, more uses", but maybe a bit too little. Note that pretty much every spellcasting classes gain two 1st-level spells at 1st level, and I counted that ranger is the class with least spells available, but at least they gain eleven spells by 20th level. This, combined with the excessive amount of cantrips provided, makes hermetic mage terribly restricted. I suggest you may take warlocks for reference, for they go with the similar concept ("little spells, even less spell slots, but recharges every short rest").

You may consult your DMG for using point-based spellcasting system. I strongly recommend this, because I agree when the official document stated that spell level does not directly reflects how greater a higher-level spell is than lower-level spells - as in, a 2nd-level spell is not twice as stronger or useful than a 1st-level spell. Plus, note that Spell Point Variant rules suggested in DMG restricts using spells of 6th level and higher, because 6th-level spells are too strong to just spammed away. That's one of the reason warlock's Mystic Arcanum is highly restricted, by the way.

You need to provide the spell list, or at least which class's spell list from the hermetic mage takes spell. I see that archetypes grant you a list of spells, but from what I see' they are all extra spells, not a list of basic spells you can choose from. Plus, it would be helpful if you add something like: When you gain a level in this class, you can choose one spell you know and replace with another spell. This helps you build a flexible character.

• Parma Magica. You acknowledge that counterspell is a 3rd-level spell, right? In general, it is not recommended to allow a spell that is higher than the level they can cast. Even full-level spellcasters, like cleric and wizard can cast a 3rd-level spell from 5th level - From what I see, this feature is highly unbalanced, even if it's once per short rest. Also, counterspell is very strong spell by itself. I suggest moving this feature to 5th level or higher.

• Magic Sigil. Removing verbal and somatic component? In 3.5rd you had to pick two feats, one for each components, and in 5th edition you must be a sorcerer and even then you have to spend 1 sorcery point for the effect. Even if you have a giveaway trait that makes it hard for you to cast a spell without being noticed, the benefit is too strong enough. Note that many pseudo-spellcasting features, such as monk's Way of Four Elements archetype, removes material components instead of verbal/somatic.

• Familiar. The current Familiar feature is not specified enough that it is basically a bait for abusing. For instance: How can my familiar cast a spell while it can't speak, do the chant, or even provide a material component on its own? (Spellcasting feature from Bronze Cord. Personally, I am against enabling spellcasting for familiars.) What if I am hit by a feeblemind spell and have my Intelligence down to 1? Does my familiar lose hit points? (Hit point bonus from Silver Cord. Besides, your familiar gains a whopping 100 hit points when you reach 20th level, that's just overpowered.) I suggest you take the ranger's Ranger's Companion feature if you'd like a better stat for your familiar.

• Arcane Regeneration. I thought this would be better as a capstone feature (20th-level feature), with increased spell point restoration.

• Spell Modifiers. Hermetic mage does not have sorcery point to fuel Metamagic options. Do I use my spell point to fuel my Metamagic option? If then, you need to specify that. Also, is the twice-per-long-rest restriction for all Metamagic options, or each of them?

• Awakened Gift. Note that Expertise is not a defined term in 5th edition, it is just a name of a feature for bard and rogue. You have to write down the full text. I've seen many classes and archetypes that attempted to get away with "you gain Expertise in skills", but I'm against that. Besides, that's not how the official texts are written.

• Arcane Boon. There are many poorly-worded features here, so here we go:

Platinum Cord. You can just use the phrase "your familiar's statistics equals to the chosen creature's statistics in its stat block."

Vancian Magic. These spells are not included in the Spells Known, right? Then you must specify that as well.

Stripped Spells. See sorcerer's Quickened Spell Metamagic option for wordings. What if the spell has a casting time of 1 minute or longer? Plus, note that reactions must be used at a specific conditions, and this option by itself provides none of it.

Hardy Caster. Overpowered, flat. This is like giving addtional spell slots for free.

War Caster. I can target anything with the second spell? No "you must target the same target" or anything? Extra 5 points are maybe a bit too big: See sorcerer's Twinned Spell and Quickened Spell Metamagic option for reference. Especially Quickened Spell, since it costs only one sorcery point to cast an action-cost spell as a bonus action, with no restrictions or anything.

• Archmage. Basically warlock's Mystic Arcanum. Personally, I think this is a bit too weak for a 20th-level feature.

• Hermetic House: Bjornaer. A very interesting concept, I should say. I love it, actually.

Heartbeast. I can speak while in the heartbeast form? Without vocal cord or anything? I suggest "telepathy" would do, but I'm not sure if telepathy counts as a verbal components. Oh, and feats are purely optional in 5th edition, so you really should not refer to any of them.

Beastial Focus. Not... bad... I think.

'Lifeblood. "Number of hours equal to your long rest" basically means "8 hours." If you're thinking of elves' Trance feature: It just allows them spend 4 hours of their long rests doing whatever they need. Elves still need 8 hours to finish a long rest.

Arcane Blood. I don't see any level indication, but judging by the sequence and table, this is 14th-level feature, right? At-will casting is nice and all, but isn't it a bit too weak for it? Oh, and can I cast the invisibility spell at anything, or should I cast it on myself?

• Hermetic House: Bonisagus. Oh dear...

Mercurian Magic. Currently, this means you can cast a 1st-level spell for free. Consider how absurdly strong that could be in non-combat situations. Hint: A round is 6 seconds.

Ritual Casting. From which class's spell list? Besides, this is just a weakened version of Ritual Caster feat. From what I see, I can't cast a hermetic spell I know as a ritual (it's not specified, so basically it means no), why not enabling it?

Strengthened Ward. Chances are, a determined munchkin would learn the shield spell in advance, get to 10th-level, and pick whatever spell he/she wants. Too easy to abuse. Besides, gaining a +2 bonus in AC is still weak, considering that the shield spell takes a reaction and you have only one reaction per round anyway.

Magic Seals. So when you lose concentration, you lose all magic seals, right? How long does a magic seal last? Currently, it lasts pretty much forever - meaning that you can take a long rest and prepare a whole bunch of spells prepared, up to your level. See Infuse Magic feature of Artificer class from Unearthed Arcana article for reference.

• Creamon. Hmm, not sure with this one, but still...

Enigma. Again, Expertise is not a defined term.

Mental Sanity. Not bad, but again, just writing "see warlock's Pact of the Chain" is lazy. You need to specify which creature your familiar can be.

Strange Magic. Okay, full stop. The benefit of cantrip is it does not cost anything to cast. This feature defies the basics of cantrips. Forget all the bonus you gain, it's still too strong for 1 spell point, and you are even more vulnerable without spell points.

Mystical Secret. You mean Otherworldly Patron, not Pact, right? (Pact refers to Pact Boon feature, which has no spell list whatsoever.)

• Ex Miscellania.

Hermetic Variation, 1 and 2. Feat is purely optional. You may make a variant feature that can be used when feats are included in the play, but as a rule of thumb, you do not refer to it.

Hermetic Variation 2. Five skills, tools, or weapons? Seriously? Note that even bard and rogue does not have that much skill choice, and they're the local skill monkey. Additionally, when you say "you gain all 1st-level feature from any class", does that includes Spellcasting?

• Flambeau. This archetype is pretty well-written compared to others, but still...

Adaptive Perdition. A clever feature, I must say. Very exquisitely well written.

Careful Destruction. Basically sorcerer's Careful Spell Metamagic option, but completely protects the target(s) instead of auto-succeeding saving throws. (Careful Spell still deals half damage to the targets.) I'm not sure if the spell point cost is adaquete or a bit low.

Blood Magic. Spending Hit Dice is discouraged (which I learned in a hard way) and besides, adding five times Hit Dice is just absurdly strong.

• Guernicus. A purely roleplaying-based archetype, intersting! I've never seen such archetype, and I think this is a very clever attempt. However:

Calm Leadership. This is a 6th-level feature, right? An area-of-effect immunity to two common conditions is downright strong.

Booming Voice. Haha, I should admit, this is a clever feature! Loved it!

Mastercraft. I'm not sure if the "double the normal amount" can be left for DM's discretion, or should be added to the feature.

• Jerbiton. Interesting, but still:

Chaos Magic. This feature seems to be the bread-and-butter for this archetype, but I think this is a bit too strong. By 6th level when you learn this feature, this means you can cast the highest-level spell you can cast for free, albeit at a chance of 50 percent.

Jack of All Trades. Again, just saying "see bard's feature" is lazy. Also, "you cannot roll lower than 5 on a skill check" must be specified, as rogue's Reliable Talent feature.

Caster's Intrigue. But you have the Spells Known restriction! This feature downright defies the very column of the class table and makes everything complicated. Plus, you must specify how much does "learning" a spell from a scroll or spellbook cost. Again, saying "see wizard's spellbook" is lazy.

• Mercere. So you basically learn many spells. One thing to be clear: Hermetic mage has Spells Known restriction, right? One or two spells are not bad, many classes do that as well, but a total of, what, thirteen spells added to the spell list you can just cast?

• Merinita. Fey-themed archetype, I see.

Faerie Magic. Actually quite enjoyable and interesting. However, the increasing number of spells may be too complicated already. Again, if you have the Spells Known column, you must at least follow it.

Fey Charms. Am I also a fey in addition to humanoid, or am I just a fey and not humanoid anymore? I suggest the former, because the latter makes everything complicated - for starters, you are not stopped by the hold person spell anymore, which is too strong. Plus, this feature has so many effects that are pretty much strong enough for being a single feature each.

• Tremere. Some features are downright broken.

Focused Magic. Note that even sorcerer's Quickened Spell Metamagic option cannot ignore the "one-spell-per-turn" rule. Just ignoring it as a passive feature is downright broken.

Supreme Accuracy. This is more of a higher-level feature than a 6th-level feature. It's that strong.

Wary Caster. See sorcerer's Careful Spell Metamagic option to see how broken this is. Heck, Careful Spell costs 1 sorcery point and even that still does not completely ignore damage.

Complete Control. Two concentration? There is a reason the concept of one concentration at a time is introduced in 5th edition. Concentration spells are typically very powerful, to the point that more than one at a time is easily a balance-breaking attempt.

• Tytalus. Roguish spellcaster, very interesting. However:

Intrigue. Again, "see rogue's feature" is lazy. You must specify what is thieves' cant.

Silent Magic. But Parma Magica feature already removes verbal component, right? Besides, sounds are essential to some spells. Take thunderwave, for instance. No sound means no thunder damage. I begin to wonder what would happen if I cast the power word kill spell - does it fail, because no one can hear the power word?

Shadowcasting. This might be useful to abuse. Besides, you already bypass cover (and half cover, presumably), why need to use this anyway?

• Verditus. Artificer, anyone?

Artifice. Note that crafting magic items and potions are optional rules provided in DMG. Your DM can rule it out, and in that case, this feature is pretty much less useful that it is supposed to be. And again, Expertise is... you know.

Runecrafting. Does the check required only once, or once for each day? Why not Arcana?

Golemancy. I highly recommend you to see manual of golems for creating golems. A week is too short for creating a creature with a CR of at least 9, even if it could be permanently hostile toward you.

Phew! That was long. In short: Many features need better wordings, and I see some balancing issues here and there. I suggest you consult your DMG for many features, there are surprisingly many tools and wordings you can use to reinforce your class. I must say that I am deeply interested in your work, nonetheless, this would make an awesome class. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 17:18, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback, I hope you will continue to provide suggestions as i Improve/modify this class!! --216.56.242.26 17:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

I am trying to keep this one of the more balanced classes here...please dont take long rest abilities and make them at-will. They were designed that way for a reason. If you have a question about my design choices feel free to drop the question here on the talk page Hades996 (talk)

Subclass features

They should probably mention at what level they are gained in the feature itself for clarity, rather than just in the hermetic house feature.