Talk:Hallownest Inhabitant (5e Race)

I don't believe first level flying speed is inherently unbalanced. Aarakocra, Aven (from PS: A), Sirens (from PS: I), and Tiefling Variants all gain or have the potential to gain flying speeds at 1st level. And an Aarakocra has 50 feet! PunnyDM12 (talk) 11:16, 12 February 2019 (MST)

See the 5e_Race_Design_Guide#Flying_Races on why this isn't appropriate. —ConcealedLight (talk) 05:41, 14 February 2019 (MST)

I've already read that. And since your a fan of the Misicus Meter, I've taken the liberty of charting out this race; never does it exceed a 5 (unless my math is somehow horribly off). On the Marasmusine Meter things are a little different. Even due to its vagueness, this race usually scores around a 4.5, but two subraces exceed this number: Mantis Folk, and Weaver Folk. I'm well aware these are suggestive tables, not set in stone, but they are a somewhat decent place to get an idea of balance. Given the base race only receives 1 true feature (Pale King's Blessing) having a flying speed that already possesses restrictions and maybe one or two other features shouldn't send this race through the roof. The Genie race you worked on with the Air subrace gains a flying speed at 1st level with no armor penalties or wingspan penalties. Sure a height penalty is imposed, but it's 60ft. which still allows you to bypass many things. The Demigod race you worked on has a Tempest variant that allows casting the fly spell at 1st level. The Flumph race gains an unrestricted flying speed. Granted it does have drawbacks, but those drawbacks are not particularly hard to counter or common to occur. I may impose stricter armor penalties to the Beetle Folk variant given they aren't necessarily a prominent flying race, but the flying isn't particularly a serious problem for this race. PunnyDM12 (talk) 09:03, 14 February 2019 (MST)

You have not addressed any of the issues presented in the guide but instead, have opted to make several pointed comments about myself and my contributions, all of which are not related to improving the page and can be considered uncivil conduct. Please avoid doing so in the future.

To get back on topic, I believe the height cap feature I had previously added not only addresses the issues with flying speed but is also thematically appropriate given insects in real life and those abilities presented in Hollow Knights don't take you very far off the ground or don't do so for very long. Thus it seems like the most eloquent solution for the improvement of the page in both facets. —ConcealedLight (talk) 09:40, 14 February 2019 (MST)

I had no intention of offending you. My apologies. I was drawing comparisons between races you've had input into (as you would be familiar with them yourself) and this page. In other words, "why should this race have flying restrictions while others don't?" In terms of flavor, I could see where you're coming from, but real insects are tiny -more likely smaller than tiny actually- and it could be extrapolated that the creatures in Hollow Knight may be approximately the size of people in that universe at least by drawing comparisons to the fauna though it's not explicitly stated. I have opted to scale them to the size of normal playable races because if they were tiny, the race would be nonfunctional. Given the assumed larger size, opting to have no flying height restriction and granting armor restrictions instead -some of which might are a tad more severe than most flying races- could arguably be considered appropriate in terms of theme and balance. As for flying in the actual video game, I would have to disagree slightly. Although the Knight has no natural flying speed and can only "fly" through two means, the enemies and other inhabitants have no restriction on how high they are capable of flying, no matter the size. Squits and hive guardians alike can chase you to endless heights if they choose to, which is why I had opted not to give them a maximum height for flying because it comes naturally to them unlike The Knight. PunnyDM12 (talk) 15:28, 14 February 2019 (MST)

After a few hours of thought, I believe a 40ft. maximum could be a happy medium given the race's general size and concern for an unrestricted flying speed, but I will change the armor restriction for a couple of subraces. What say you? PunnyDM12 (talk) 21:41, 14 February 2019 (MST)

Thank you. I haven't played the game myself so I only have an outsiders perspective on it. 40 feet seems rather arbitrary, I chose 15 feet because it is easier to word it, creatures with reach weapons can still hit you, and obstacles that rely on their height are almost always going to be taller than 15 feet, at least in AL adventurers, also the many wall spells in the game can't be circumvented(wall of thorns) but that is more of a side point. —ConcealedLight (talk) 06:03, 15 February 2019 (MST)

That's a fair point. By reducing the height cap, would the subraces need any other racial features do you reckon, or would it be the final balancing factor? PunnyDM12 (talk) 08:12, 15 February 2019 (MST)

Should be fine as they've got Pale King's Blessing (which is one of the most sought after benefits imo). Though I'd probs add some more references into the page which you can see how to do on 5e Race Design Guide#Referencing.—ConcealedLight (talk) 10:25, 15 February 2019 (MST)