Talk:Giff, Variant (5e Race)

What do you think about the changes I have made Azzdan (talk) 08:52, 23 February 2019 (MST)

I feel giving innate proficiency in a firearm while stretch is doable, however ignoring the loading property is pretty questionable. The languages section need to be fully written out as well and the issue with Charge still isn't fixed. —ConcealedLight (talk) 13:05, 23 February 2019 (MST)

changed the language section and the loading property to 3rd level gained. the charge feature is straight from the tome of foe entry so I don't see how to fix an official power of the race, and it doesn't seem right to make it a leveled power like the loading property(also from the book) Azzdan (talk) 08:07, 16 June 2019 (MDT) also remove the hoop thing as their is no mention of it in anything a have read on the giff Azzdan (talk) 08:14, 16 June 2019 (MDT)

the hold breath has never been a power for the race I don't think we should add stuff not in any source material. ac is not in the 5th entry but is in 2nd so i guess ok with that being added not sure why you change the charge ability to a bouns action it should be an attack like it is in the monster manuel Azzdan (talk) 14:18, 16 June 2019 (MDT)

Head.first Charge. The giff can try to knock a creature over; if the giff moves at least 20 feet in a straight line that ends within 5 feet of a Large or smaller creature, that creature must succeed on a DC 14 Strength saving throw or take 7 (2d6) bludgeoning damage and be knocked prone this is exactly with is in the tome of foes entry pg 204 Azzdan (talk)

the 2nd ed version said The giff can charge using the head butt, inflicting 2-12 points of damage on his foe so I changed it back to doing dmg and it being its own attack Azzdan (talk) 14:31, 16 June 2019 (MDT)

Monster traits should often not be directly implanted into racial traits as they are designed for monsters, not players. The monstrous player races section of Volo's Guide to Monsters proves this as well as gives examples where races don't identically reflect what is in their monstrous counterparts. For example, the monster bugbear doesn't receive an increased reach but its race does. Thus I find your recent revision to be inappropriate in regard to ensuring the comparative balance and the spirit of collaboration. Please don't revert this edit but do give suggestions if you believe something more appropriate comes to mind. —ConcealedLight (talk) 16:30, 16 June 2019 (MDT)

I disagree with the hold breath ability it should not be added no where is this a listed thing for the race in any cannon material. The charge should do damage I don't like the bonus action bit but can live with that. the Damage should stay in it is true to the race 2nd and 5th editions. the pc stats in 2nd edition (complete spacefarer handbook) could as do dmg with its head butt it is part of the flavor of the giff I was just using the power they gave in the book to keep it simple and similar if we are changing it, the change should be just be a headbutt attack that does dmg I also looked at the giff race(free sample) on the dungeon master guild page and its version also did damage.Azzdan (talk) 17:03, 16 June 2019 (MDT)

how about this for the charge ability headfirst charge: when you take the dash action you can choose to make a headbutt attack fof 7(2d6) that if successful the target must succeed on a strength saving throw(dc=8+your proficiency bonus + your strength bouns) or be knocked prone Azzdan (talk) 21:17, 16 June 2019 (MDT)

Firstly Giff isn't a first party language, it seems odd to insist on such a questionable trait based on a stat block but then include the Giff as a language when the 5e stat block does not have Giff as a language.

Secondly, 5th edition has different standards for racial traits, it is redundant if another edition or another homebrew race does it the same way. Next, the purposed amendment is worded poorly in that it doesn't define what a headbutt attack is. All other natural weapon traits do so (lizardfolk: hungry jaws + bite). In addition, it is easily abusable on classes that can Dash as a bonus action. For example, a rogue could bonus action headbutt without actually moving, knock the creature prone and then get a sneak attack off as they are now prone. At level one dealing 1d8+4d6+DEX averaging at 22 damage assuming a +3, which is ridiculous. Finally, the current version works the same way the official first-party's charge trait as seen on the centaur in GGtR. As such I don't believe your preposed trait is a suitable addition to the page. —ConcealedLight (talk) 05:05, 17 June 2019 (MDT)

sorry about the language keep forgetting the 5th ed killed so many racial languages. ok then how about we just give it a natural headbutt attack 7(2d6) and be done with this charge thing all together. ok I don't have GGtr book yet so I cant reference that oneAzzdan (talk) 06:14, 17 June 2019 (MDT)

Headbutt. Your forehead is a natural weapon, which you can use to make unarmed strikes. If you hit with it, you deal bludgeoning damage equal to 2d6 + your Strength modifier. Azzdan (talk) 06:19, 17 June 2019 (MDT)

That wouldn't work as now a monks unarmed strike damage is 2d6 which is better than a level 20 monks 1d10. —ConcealedLight (talk) 10:20, 17 June 2019 (MDT)

I have an idea we go back to the power as written in the book just make require a long or short rest before you can do it agian.Azzdan (talk) 20:17, 17 June 2019 (MDT) any objections to that going once Azzdan (talk) 15:11, 19 June 2019 (MDT)

Head.first Charge. The giff can try to knock a creature over; if the giff moves at least 20 feet in a straight line that ends within 5 feet of a Large or smaller creature, that creature must succeed on a strength saving throw(DC=8+your proficiency bonus + your strength bonus) or take 7 (2d6) bludgeoning damage and be knocked prone. This power can't be used again until the PC completes a short or long rest.Azzdan (talk) 15:15, 19 June 2019 (MDT)

I don't think it is particularly beneficially. As I said before the trait should mimic the first parties Charge racial ability and the page is fine as it is. —ConcealedLight (talk) 04:36, 20 June 2019 (MDT)

Have the ggtr now updated entry to be closer to what was in that book Azzdan (talk) 06:44, 20 June 2019 (MDT)

That wording only works for the centuar in its context and doesn't work here. As stated previously. I've reverted your edit. —ConcealedLight (talk) 07:38, 20 June 2019 (MDT)

Now it will work as it is almost exactly the same as the centaur ability just 20 ft instead of 30 and I made the head butt do less damage on par with the centaur so it matches a published pc race to the letter and still allows the headbutt attack to do damage which is the point in the first place Azzdan (talk) 08:39, 20 June 2019 (MDT)

You wording was off so I adjusted it but that'll do it. —ConcealedLight (talk) 09:36, 20 June 2019 (MDT)