Talk:Forsaker (3.5e Prestige Class)

Forsaker class well polished for 3.5

== Rating ==

Being a forsaker makes a good edition to a campaign where you can have a lot of magic or dependance on magic. It could be challenging based on the ramifications if the campaign setting is based on a magocracy(is it like being in the modern world without your colledge diploma, or is it like being without you own transportation, or state I.D./birth cirtificate).

Power - 4/5

The Forsaker class it has a lot of benefits to offset not being able to use magic, like having a free +1 inherent bonus every level, means at level 10 you can have a Con of 25 without aid is awe inspiring. It also gives decent recovery options like fast healing, recuperating coma, and X/- DR. It's biggest weakness is its only offensive power, Puncture Damage Reduction, is iffy because Power Attack or Sneak Attack is the only unassisted damage bonus(other than bonuses from ability scores) off the top of my head, I recommend giving Power Attack for free(not everyone is going to have a STR of 13 seeing as this is a defensive class) along with Punch DR or adding your forsaker level to your d20 roll. Even then it seems a bit iffy because silver/10 needs a 20 on a d20 to pierce, and epic/20 requires a 35! Power attack is limiting because epic monsters can have ACs that make using power attack prohibative. It would also be nice if the job could appeal to other non-casting classes like rogues, psions, gadgeteer or certian rangers(jobs that don't always have high STR scores).

You were good in letting forsakers raising and going through gates, some things are just a "neccessary evil" to get by... but maybe you can hint that the DM can give lesser penalties in mitigating circumstances(is using a rod of cancellation okay if you need to destroy an artifact like the sphere of annilation? is it okay to assist a cleric if it means preventing people from being raised as undead?). How can Punch DR deal with incoporeal monsters? Can a forsaker still pray to a god?

The requirements to be a forsaker are also kind of questionable. If a PC's mother was killed by a wizard or town was burned by a dragon, you would then need to have 3 feats, which could means you need to progress as many as eight levels to get the feats needed to unlock the class. That seems to be a long time for something that is deep and personal loss for a PC. Also the feats in question are also iffy(+2 to a saving throw isn't what I'd want to use my feat slot on, Improved Initative, Endurance, Run, Extra Rage, etc. etc.

Wording - 4.5/5

Well organized and the 3.5 version from Masters of the Wilds was well thought out and I've been looking at it for awhile now. It could use a Epic Bonus feat list(not that the class is crippled without it). Good examples: Spellcasting Harrier, Epic Damage Reduction, Penetrate Damage Reduction, Perfect Health, Blinding Speed, Combat Archery, etc.

Standards and Formatting (DnD Guideline)- 5/5

Everything looks well presented. I can't find fault with anything here.

Flavor - 2/5

Some italic text storyline or a better intoduction could help this class fit into a campaign better. How do forsakers get along if they have opposed races(orc barbarian vs. dwarf fighter), or classes(gnome gageeteer vs. goblin psion), or believes(christian who doesn't approve of magic in modern d20 world may have more in common with an athiest than he thinks).

Update: It's probably not a good idea to slap psionics in here. It should be left up to individual DM's how to treat psionics in thier games.

Request from Creator (me)

I just undid several massive edits that I felt ruined the balance of the class and wanted to leave some notes for others who may with to make tweaks. The forsaker class is very unique and some things written on the page may not be appropriate for some campaigns depending on the level of magic used by enemies. As stated near the end of the page, numbers should be adjusted with DM permission if they seem to high or low for the game. As they are, I feel the numbers are good for upper-mid levels of magic. The fact that magic destruction was removed completely with the previous edit baffles me, as I is key to the classes balance and assures that one adheres to the tenets of being a Forsaker. I ask that massive overhauls like that not be made to the main page, and should instead be put in discussion or simply left between you and your DM. Thank you, and also special thanks to whoever reviewed the class :).

Note from Nerman8r

The entry requirements for this class are extremely light. You can take the class at level 2. It's very strong for level 2, I think. Nerman8r (talk) 09:10, 10 December 2013 (MST)

Note from Master Chr Smith

The entry requirements for this class are the same as the original class. I was working on a rebuild and came up with almost the exact thing before I found this page. Good job on reworking and balance. The only thing I would change is to leave skill points as they originally were, this is a combat heavy class not a skill monkey so 2+int mod skill points is sufficient, with the extra stat every level if the player wants more skill points they can spend a couple in intelligence.

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Thanks for the compliment! I agree that 6 skill points was too much and it wasn't that much before. Not sure if I made that change and forgot or if someone else did. Either way I lowered it back to 4. Even though this is a fighting class I still feel like they should have some degree of skills. No option to get skill boosting rings or enchantments along with the emphasis of bettering one's self make me think it should at least have more than the minimum. I still check this page every now and again. Glad to see it might be getting some use!