Talk:Dexterity Barbarian (5e Optimized Character Build)

Don't understand this bit of text: "Defensive Duelist raises AC against one attack but cannot be used with Rage". Nothing in the description of Rage or Defensive Duelist suggests that. The closest I can think of is that defensive duelist requires that you be wielding a finesse weapon that you are proficient with, and many of Rage's benefits require you to be making a STR based attack. However, nothing prevents you from making a STR based attack *with* a finesse weapon, or merely wielding a finesse weapon in your off-hand and not even attacking with it (e.g. Sea-based Storm Herald Barbarians, when raging, might save their bonus action for hurling lightning bolts at opponents, but still enjoy the defensive bonus from Defensive Duelist.) --Cbsmith (talk) 23:46, 19 May 2019 (MDT)

Not sure how there is any confusion about how this works. The text is very clear: "The ability modifier used for a melee weapon attack is Strength, and the ability modifier used for a ranged weapon attack is Dexterity. Weapons that have the finesse or thrown property break this rule." Combine that with the text from p.147, it's clear as day: melee weapons with the thrown property use STR, unless they are also finesse, in which case they can use either DEX or STR. There's even a specific tweet from the man himself on this matter. The thrown property trumps the rule about ranged weapon attacks using DEX. --Cbsmith (talk) 23:58, 19 May 2019 (MDT)

Dude. No they don't. A ranged attack uses DEX in all cases. This is a recurring ruling coming from WotC staff. Cut it out. --Kydo (talk) 18:12, 1 January 2016 (MST)

When describing the thrown property (PHB p. 147), it's specifically said you use whichever ability you would normally use for a melee attack:

"For example, if you throw a handaxe, you use your Strength, but if you throw a dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the dagger has the finesse property." --83.80.237.64 01:56, 10 February 2016 (MST)

PHB p.194, under Modifiers to the Roll, in Ability Modifiers: "[Melee weapons use strength, ranged weapons use dexterity.] Weapons that have the finesse or thrown property break this rule." I am inclined to favor this rule over the other, as it is more consistent with both D&D standards from previous editions, and the rulings coming from Mearls and others online. --Kydo (talk) 02:18, 11 February 2016 (MST)

I don't understand the issue. The PHB p. 147 tells us a thrown handaxe uses Strength. PHB p. 194 reminds us of this. Marasmusine (talk) 02:38, 11 February 2016 (MST)

Same with a javelin. A thrown javelin uses Strength. Marasmusine (talk) 02:40, 11 February 2016 (MST)

Aside from being contrary to tradition, and contrary to rulings like "if you're throwing an item, dexterity is used to determine accuracy.", it also makes no sense mechanically. Dexterity represents flexibility, coordination, precision, and agility. Strength is just raw power. Additionally, by the RaW, if it says "or thrown", that would imply even in the absence of other traits. --Kydo (talk) 11:44, 11 February 2016 (MST)

I'm not sure what you mean by "contrary to tradition".

• AD&D 1st edition: Only Strength could give you attack and damage roll bonuses.
• AD&D 2nd edition, PHB, p. 99: "Attack roll and damage modifiers for Strength are always used when an attack is made with a hurled weapon. Here the power of the character's arm is a significant factor in the effectiveness of the attack."
• 3rd edition: SRD:Thrown Weapon, "The wielder applies his or her Strength modifier to damage dealt by thrown weapons."
• 4th edition distinguishes between "heavy thrown" and "light thrown" weapons. Javelins and handaxes are heavy thrown, and use your Strength modifier (dagger is the only light thrown weapon)
• 5th edition, as explained above, uses Strength for thrown non-finesse weapons. You even quoted the PHB yourself (at 02:18 above) explicitly saying that the thrown property is the exception to the rule of Dexterity for ranged. Marasmusine (talk) 14:02, 11 February 2016 (MST)

There's no contradiction in the rules, OP is being stubborn because it will force him/her to change the build. The general rule of thumb is melee attacks use STR, ranged use DEX. Thrown weapons break this rule, so p. 194 just point this out. The fact the designers specifically gave the handaxe example in p. 147 means the design intent is for handaxes to use STR, exactly as written in the rules. As for the flavor, the idea is that stronger people can throw an axe with greater momentum and force so it can penetrate armor, while throwing a finesse weapon like a dagger is less about brute force and more about hitting the weak spots of an armored foe.--83.80.237.64 05:37, 5 March 2016 (MST)

I was being stubborn because it means that something I always took as a given was actually a misinterpretation made by one of my group over 10 years ago, and nobody at our table ever thought to look it up- probably because it never came up as a problem. In any case, this needs revision. --Kydo (talk) 20:13, 23 June 2016 (MDT)

This is a core rules only build. Nothing outside of the PHB, DMG, or MM is allowed. Most importantly, unpublished material, such as Unearthed Arcana, is completely off-limits. (By published, I mean sold for money by the original development team through legitimate distributors in the form of a physical product.) This is intended to be playable as an adventurers league character in any season. --Kydo (talk) 22:49, 9 February 2016 (MST)