Talk:Demon Lord (3.5e Class)

Creation Progress - Still Going On

In case anyone is wondering, i do plan on finishing this class. i just need to finish researching some spells and create some spells. ==Alabastor 16:46, 16 March 2007 (MDT)

Will that also include the epic part, or are you not going to include that? --Green Dragon 16:40, 19 April 2007 (MDT)

Thoughts

ok, i have the spell and skill list complete. ill post when i have time. i want your thoughts, i was thinking about gaining the half-feind template at 20th level (like dragon deciple) and moving the feindish creature template to 10th. i was wondering if you, the veiwer might think this is too broken. all comments are apreciated. ==Alabastor 07:18, 18 April 2007 (MDT)

The Fiendish Template and the Half-Fiend Template both add LA. How do you account for this? --Green Dragon 16:42, 19 April 2007 (MDT)

The same way a Dragon Deciple accounts for it. But what i was thinking is when they get half feind, they drop feindish...the basis being is their becoming stedily more corrupt and feind-like themselves, and this is the result. ==Alabastor 06:23, 20 April 2007 (MDT)

Oh. Anyway, I think it would be more balanced to make it so when they get the Half-Fiend Template they drop the Fiendish Template. Just my thoughts. --Green Dragon 13:28, 22 April 2007 (MDT)

That was the original idea. Didnt make much sence to me to have a "feindish half-feind". kinda like having super male syndrome (look it up). But i figure 20 levels in a base class and its worth it. ==Alabastor 06:28, 23 April 2007 (MDT)

So after all is said and done, what would you give it? ==Alabastor 08:10, 23 April 2007 (MDT)

Do you mean in the way of balance? --Green Dragon 19:35, 23 April 2007 (MDT)

yeah, i still have to do epic progression, but the 20 levels of the class is done. ==Alabastor 08:22, 24 April 2007 (MDT)

I have only looked at this briefly however I think it may be overpowered. Getting the same spells/day as a sorcerer, very good abilities, and a rather good spell list overpower this class. I would recommend making the spells/day worse, maybe even like a Wizard (however that may be underpowered). --Green Dragon 10:31, 24 April 2007 (MDT)

well, what about if i made the spells per day more like a druid? ==Alabastor 06:26, 25 April 2007 (MDT)

It would definiatly make it better, however I think it still may be overpowered... Not sure. --Green Dragon 15:37, 25 April 2007 (MDT)

well, look at it this way...a druid has all those special abilities; animal comanion, wild shape, spells, wild empathy, timeless body, a thousand faces. does all these abilities make a druid overpowered? this class has an extreemly limited spell list (6-7 per level) and im gonna make them be able to cast less spells per day. i think this balances it out....but mabey we should try that balancing table thingy ive seen around here, just to see. ==Alabastor 06:46, 26 April 2007 (MDT)

You are right, it probally is balanced with those spells. Anyway, this is your class and you really should do what you think makes it better. Also, you may want to ask EldritchNumen to rate this and give another input as he deals a lot with Template:Balance. --Green Dragon 11:22, 26 April 2007 (MDT)

I think the druid spell progression on op of the limited spell list is a fair trade-off. --Theophenes 16:14, 1 May 2007 (MDT)

Twas a pain, but the spell progression is complete ==Alabastor 08:14, 2 May 2007 (MDT)

You should make a non arcane version. That cool! --Fishman 6:28, 18 Febuary 2009

Even if this class design now lies seemingly unattended for over two years, it is an interesting one. Even with a load of contradicting or vague information. I shall try to help out a bit ;) Xandania 20:04, 03 September 2011

It's been five years and change since the last update to this page, despite a number of typos and unclear points. I've cleaned it up a bit; hopefully no takes offense. I did my best not to change the intent behind any of the class features or mechanics, but that's not to say I don't think it should be done. Other than the Ritual of Enslavement, not much distinguishes this class from the 3.5 Abyssal Warlock. If someone wanted to add or modify features to make the class more unique, I don't think anyone would mind... Marlowe (talk) 19:48, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Wot, no cantrips?

Just what the header says- no cantrips? Why? MorkaisChosen 09:26, 1 June 2007 (MDT)

Nope, he doesnt get cantrips. He'll have to deal with it. ==Alabastor 06:26, 4 June 2007 (MDT)

design issues

• "A Demon Lord casts Dark spells, which is a sick cross between arcane and divine, but are neither." - That creates a number of new issues.
  • Demon Lords can use neither arcane nor divine scrolls, wands, staves? But they don't get UMD either...
  • Demon Lords don't suffer arcane spell failure chance?

• Siphon Soul (Sp) on a living creature: What's the range? Do you need a touch attack?

• "Soul stones are highly illegal in every civilized country and anyone caught will receive an execution. Because of this, not even the underground will sell them." - That makes assumptions about the game world. I can easily imagine trade in soulstones. Hey, there is nothing people don't trade illegaly in the real world. Just give us a gp price for these things.

• "Demon Lords detest paladins and clerics of good dietys and will try to kill them on site." Well, first of all, there is also evil clerics, the Demon Lord may want these as allies and kill them when it's convenient. Second, walking into a church and starting a murderous rampage can be quite suicidal. If that was true, few Demon Lords ever reach 3rd level. (And there are two typos in that sentence alone.)

• "as a Warmage", "as a Cleric", "as a XX"... You shouldn't use such descriptors in game rules. It can lead to a lot of confusion about what exactly is like the other class and what not. Explicitely write down what the rules are, and leave the "that's just like the Warmage" part for the player to understand.

• Like Warmage and Beguiler, the Demon Lord should get the chance to add an extra spell to his spell list every 4 levels.

I'll rate the class when these points are fixed. --Mkill 04:21, 14 June 2007 (MDT)

better? and i wrote the line that the underground wont sell them because you absolutly cannot buy them. that is part of accepting the class into a campain. a demon lord is supposed to kill innocents for his souls. i hope you understand. ==Alabastor 22:23, 3 July 2007 (MDT)

• Why does the Demon Lord get proficency with all weapons as a caster class when not even a fighter gains such? ==D.M.DemonicPada 19:54, 27 February 2009 (EST)