Talk:Damage Reduction (5e Other)

Perhaps I missed something in the PHB, but since when is your proficiency bonus added to damage? Kormoran (talk) 12:13, 17 July 2016 (MDT)

I'm fairly sure it is. That's how everyone around here seems to play it. The PHB does say that it's added to the attack in general, but it doesn't seem to specify the attack roll. The section on proficiency itself doesn't list damage though. On the other hand, every 5e table I've played at added proficiency to damage, and I've never noticed a significant balance issue in official adventures, so it seems to have been accounted-for. --Kydo (talk) 16:04, 17 July 2016 (MDT)

If it isn't, that makes DR even more potent than this page implies. The whole point of this page is to emphasize just how dramatic the effect of guaranteed damage reduction can be in a system with such small numbers. --Kydo (talk) 06:59, 18 July 2016 (MDT)

It does specify the attack roll.

PHB p. 195, Attack Rolls.

"To make an attack roll, roll a d20 and add the appropriate modifiers."

The modifiers for attack rolls are:

Ability Modifier and Proficiency Bonus.

PHB p. 196, Damage Rolls.

"You roll the damage die or dice, add any modifiers, ..."

The modifiers for damage rolls are:

For weapon attacks, your Ability modifier (same one used for attack). That's it (other than other bonuses from magic items, class features etc)

You don't add proficiency bonus to damage rolls.

I'm also unclear what this page is proposing. 5e doesn't have 3.5e-style DR, so is this an alternate rule? If so does it replace 5e's generalized damage resistance or replace it? Marasmusine (talk) 08:54, 18 July 2016 (MDT)

It's about what DR would mean for 5e, were it to be implemented or used by any homebrew material. Mostly in response to various blog posts, youtube videos, criticisms of D&D I've read in other game books and magazines, and comments I've heard from people just coming into D&D. Specifically, videogame RPGs have pretty much taught most gamers these days that armor only absorbs impacts, reducing harm done, as opposed to deflecting them outright. (Which is kind of half-true) To these gamers, AC makes no sense outside of being an evasion stat, and they feel D&D is bizarre for having "paper armor"; that is to say, it either works absolutely or fails absolutely. The common response is to try and houserule or homebrew D&D to use DR, (Often under some other name) instead of, or alongside, AC, without consideration for the overall mechanics of the game. D&D uses such small numbers that even a small DR makes a big difference, and its implementation must be more cautious than simply, "Reduce damage by your AC." Likewise, its use in magic equipment, or class/race features must be equally modest. AC itself is probably one of the main reasons D&D has such a high bar of entry- it is completely anachronistic in the modern gaming hobby, but that's ok, the rationale behind it just needs clarification, and the reason is the math. This was originally going to go into the class building guide, but then I realized that damage reduction is an abstract mechanic that could appear pretty much anywhere in the game, so I made it a separate page that could be linked to from that page, or if we encounter content that uses it in an imbalanced way. That's why I put it in other. It's not really a rule, but it's about them, and it's not really a guide, but it is useful as part of one. --Kydo (talk) 09:09, 18 July 2016 (MDT)

I see, so it's a sort of "what if"...

I just want to make an interesting comparison with GURPS.

Before 4th edition, GURPS armor had both a DR value and a value that contributed towards evasion - particularly with rigid armor like plate mail - the rationale being that at some angles a blow is completely deflected.

They dropped this in 4th edition to just DR, the new rationale being that a deflected blow is the same as a blow that didn't penetrate the DR in the first place.

With DR, there are also other sub-systems:

• Armor DR can be rigid or flexible. With flexible armor, a target might still take a small amount of blunt trauma damage from bludgeoning or cutting blows.
• Some damage has an DR divisor; similarly some armors have a "hardness" that counters this divisor.

One of the main criticisms of GURPS is the slowness of its combat! But I love both systems of GURPS and D&D, and I don't have a problem with the you-hit-or-you-don't AC system. Marasmusine (talk) 11:19, 18 July 2016 (MDT)

I've never had the opportunity to play GURPS, sadly. That's some useful information though. I'll correct the chart to match the rules. And then I'll, yet again, closely examine a misinterpretation of the rules, and probably write a variant rule, because I already know it works and is fun. I'm really impressed with how sturdy the 5e rules are. You can misinterpret or mod the game really hard, and it usually holds stable pretty well, compared to older systems I've played! (Palladium games in particular are very touchy, by my memory) --Kydo (talk) 12:31, 18 July 2016 (MDT)

Palladium's suffered from some pretty absurd power creep. Something from an old Rifts book is practically worthless compared to a more powerful (and probably close to equally priced!) piece of equipment. SirSprinkles (talk) 20:26, 8 August 2016 (MDT)

That just seems like Rifts' style though, you know? It's supposed to slowly become insane and outrageous. (Or, at least, that's the impression I got from it) what I was talking about was the more contained settings under the same system. Like, modding the Macross RPG was very difficult. I wound up relying on this one website's homebrew material, because the guy who ran it was so much better at it than me. (Mind you, that was, like, 6 years ago?) --Kydo (talk) 11:41, 9 August 2016 (MDT)

I do have Heroes Unlimited, it's nuts how wonky the combat system is, principally described on a single page and contradictory rules and exceptions situated throughout the book... have to say though it's another book I love, I was able to make it work in that setting. I did have RIFTS but sold it, just didn't do it for me, didn't have the randomness of HU. Marasmusine (talk) 12:07, 9 August 2016 (MDT)

In the groups I play with, our GM's make certain the new players read aloud the sections on Attack and Damage rolls when they first join the group, just so that it is heard by everyone that proficiency bonus is not added to damage. I feel that this discussion on DR is very useful, and 5e has a few instances where there is sort-of DR, like the Heavy Armor Master Feat, basically gives DR3 against non-magical bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing weapon damage. However, since unarmed strikes do not count as weapons, as per the errata from Wizards, that damage would all be taken.--Foxtrotter out! (talk) 22:01, 30 December 2016 (MST)