Talk:Dai-Oni (5e Race)

Enders(Original Writer):

Reviewed by Enders under. Treantmonk Racial Feature Guidelines.

Preamble

Hey there. I'll be doing a review and comparison of this subrace using Treantmonk's Racial Feature Guidelines (As shown in this video). So to preface, let's start with how Treantmonk assigns points to Subraces.

Treantmonk assigns points between 1-125 for different racial traits with his descriptions below as follows.

• 1-9: A very tiny benefit, a "ribbon feature" as he calls it.
• 10-20: Benefit is small, but it comes up. As he says "My standard there is Darkvision, which is worth 10."
• 21-40: A Substantial Benefit. "Like a really powerful spell."
• 41-60: Exceptional Benefit. "These are likely strong, racial defining features."
• 61-80: Top tier racial feature. "Extremely powerful, racial defining features."
• 81-100: Unlimited Flight or something similar.
• 125: A Free Feat (Custom Lineage)

Disclaimer: Assigning these values to any one feature is going to naturally be subjective. It is impossible for one to not insert their own biases into these. If I value a higher movement speed more than you do, we will have different rankings. So we should be 100% clear that people will not fully agree on precise scores, nor should we expect everything to be equal amongst reviewers. But ideally we can come close.

Below are some of Treantmonks initial Baseline Benchmarks for standardized features.

• Free Feat: 125 Points. - In his opinion a free feat is the most valuable racial feature in the game. Which given the prevalence of Custom Lineage as often competing with things like Shadarkai, despite getting almost nothing besides a free feat... this seems about right. It is a build enabler on its own.
• Duration/Concentration Free Flight: 100 Points.
• Limited Flight (Bonus Action pb/lr): 50 points - Hover adds a +8 to this for 58.

Ability Score Totals. (He notably pointed out that these are oversimplified, and do not account for the synergistic benefits that come with +2/+1, or if some theoretical race had +2/+2/+2. And to account for this on your own.)

• +2 Ability Scores : -20 Points.
• +3 Ability Scores : 0 (This is the standard +2/+1)
• +4 Ability Scores : 20 Points
• +6 Ability Scores : 30 Points (Like the Human +1/1/1/1/1/1)

Free Spells: In his example, spells can range wildly between very powerful or negligible or not useful.

• Cantrip 1-10 based on quality and flexibility.
• 1st Level 1-30 based on quality and flexibility.
• 2nd level 1-40 based on quality and flexibility.

Resistances: In his words "Resistances are not of equal value. Resistance to force is almost never going to come up for players. Same goes for radiant. If you're a monster fighting player characters, then radiant would come up more often. But monsters are not often dealing radiant damage, and especially so the kinds of monsters that you often would fight."

• Force: 10
• Radiant: 10
• Thunder: 12
• Psychic: 14
• Acid: 15
• Cold: 15
• Lightning: 15
• Fire: 17
• Poison: 17
• Necrotic: 20

Additional Features

• Disease Immunity (Hardly comes up.) : 5 Points
• Fey Step 50 Points Base (Plus more for Extra Riders). - This is the teleport feature most common on many of the Elf Standards.
• Extra Proficiencies: 4 Points Per skill, 5 if you have choices.
• 1 Point. Per Tool Proficiency
• 1 Point. Per Weapon Proficiency.

• Medium Armor Proficiency: 10.
• Speed 25: -20
• Speed 35: +20
• Speed 40: +40
• Swim Speed/Climb Speed +10
• Doesn't need to breath is +5
• Ignore Heavy Armor Penalties is +10.
• Advantage on a Saving Throw: +1-50 based on frequency.
• Fey Ancestry: 10 Points.
• 120 Foot Darkvision: 15 Points.
• Trance 10 Points.
• Telepathy: 15 Points.
• Natural Weapon: 4 Points (d4), 5 Points (d6), double the points if the weapon does not require a hand. Otherwise these are seen as mostly ribbon features.

Baseline Calculation Portion

So. Given that my goal is to create Racial Options that are competitive with what Treantmonk places as S-Tier options (which I think most players can agree with). I think it's time to look at those options first, then calculate the Dai-Oni.

In S Tier, between 96-135 Points Lied these races in the top 10:

• Top 10: Fairy. Feral Tiefling. Aarakocra. Shadar-Kai. Aasimar. Dragonborn(Gem). Owlin. Custom Lineage. Bugbear. Harengon.
• Top 11-16: Dhampir, Eladrin, Yuan Ti, Goblin, Astral Elf.

So in this case. I'm going to take both the Fairy, Aasimar, and Shadar-Kai as the comparison points as he calculated them, as I think they cover a lot of what Dai-Oni is capable of.

Fairy

Fairy Magic: The Druidcraft cantrip is not a very strong cantrip, earning it only 3 points. Faerie Fire is a much better spell, worth 15 points. And Enlarge/Reduce, unlike the Duergar, does not have the self-only limitation, bringing it to be a 17 point spell addition. Fairy Magic is also flexible in what spell casting ability you can use. Overall Fairy Magic earns the Fairy 35 Points.

Flight: 100 Points . I will personally (me enders) speak myself as to how I perceive the power of flight. To have durationless, limitless flight is essentially to have flight that cannot be mitigated or stopped without incapacitating or proning effects. It is the ability to inconsequentially attempt to circumvent encounters that do not have the ability to deal with flight, to become functionally immune to exclusively melee enemies (Which exist even at the highest of CR's) and to be able to circumvent RP problems and issues (an impassable coursing river suddenly becomes a 0 consequence barrier.)

Total: 135 Points

Aasimar

Celestial Resistance: Necrotic resistance is the resistance that TM considers the most powerful in the game. I would agree. It cannot be replicated with Absorb Elements. Many monsters that players would face deal necrotic, and many riders on attacks that reduce max HP or spells that automatically kill you at 0 also deal Necrotic. Radiant however, is far less common on monsters, making it less valuable. This is a total of 20(Necrotic) and 10(Radiant) = 30 Points.

Darkvision: 10 Points. Standard feature. Consequential. It is solid.

Healing Hands: It is not overly powerful, but it is about as good as a 1st level cure wounds spell. It was assigned 10 Points

Light Bearer: Light cantrip was not rated as super powerful. It is right around the middle of Cantrip power. Thus - it was given 5 Points.

Celestial Revelation: He saw the strongest option as Celestial Revelation. 50 Points for the limited, BA flight. With an additional 20 points given for the additional damage increase provided by the feature. This is relevant as it seems Treantmonk would roughly rate features that tack on additional damage as being a 20 point boost. ```70 Points```.

Total: 125 Points

Shadar-Kai

TM: "For a lot of folks, this is the best race in the game period. It does not quite reach that on my list, but we will see why."

Blessing of the Raven Queen: Teleportation alone is worth 50 Points.. Standard BA + Usage Limit as most fey steps. Omni resistance until Start of Next Turn. The Rider effects as per TM's view is that it's worth 20 additional points, with his consideration saying that Spring Eladrin's rider is about as good, but this is just a hair better. Giving it an additional 22 points, bringing it up to 72 Points.

Darkvision: 10 Points

Fey Ancestry: 10 Points.

Keen Senses: 4 Points.

Necrotic Resistance: 20 Points.

Trance: 12 Points.

Total: 142

Dai-Oni Calculations Now.

So now, for me. I would be rating the Dai-Oni in accordance with previous calculations and my own thoughts. Of course, as said, it is impossible for me to not writ in my own personal biases, but I will try my best.

• ASI: 0 Points (It is the standard +2/+1 Package)
• Speed: 0 Points (Standard 30.)
• Size: Medium (Standard)
• Darkvision: 10 Points
• Demonic Build: 9 Points Author Note: Little Giant is a very similar Goliath Feature. Only difference is it gives Ath and this Gives Intim. It was rated as a Ribbon + Skill, for 5+4 Points.
• Demonic Regeneration: 25 Points Author Note: Fire being the best resistance is a 17. The boost to Short Rest healing is to me, roughly half as powerful as healing hands, making it worth 5 Points. And severed limb/body part regeneration is extremely rare and inconsequential, and does not interfere with the die upon losing a head part of dealing with Vorpal Blade like features, leaving it as almost entirely a ribbon, flavor feature, worth IMO, about 3 Points. Bringing this to 25.
• Oni Shapeshifting: 1 Points Author Note: This is entirely a flavor feature as it is currently written. The only reason I have it is to enable the narrative fantasy, as players can simply flavor their appearance any way they wish. Mechanically, creatures always recognize your other form. This only serves to give Oni players the ability to hide the fact that they are "Oni" assuming they even wanted to represent that visually to begin with.

Pride of Claw and Horn: 6 Points Author Note: It's the 4 Points for a 1d4 Unarmed Weapon on your hands. Alongside 2 points for a very conditional advantage bonus for mostly RP related Athletics checks.

Baseline Race Total. 51 Points Author Note: So, as a baseline race. I actually think it is mechanically not that powerful. It's claim to fame is healing a bit more on short rests and getting Fire/Cold/Lightning Resistance so far. These are the genuinely impactful mechanical benefits. With that in mind, if it was rated as purely a base race, it would be a C Tier Race at the moment. However, I do believe the subraces below get it to be that A-Tier or S Tier Race I want it to be.

Subraces

Red Oni

Unstoppable Charge: 42 Points

Authors Note: It is a free mobility option tied to PB/LR as akin to Fey Touched. And similar to Shadarkai, Grants Omni-Resistance. Unlike Shadar-Kai however, it trades its ability to circumvent damaging terrain, effects, gaps in space, opportunity attacks, movement debilitation, restraints and grapples and the environment shape - in exchange for the ability to potentially have higher movement if your movement speed is increased somehow, and to knock enemies prone if you are willing to provoke OA's from them. I have a very hard time rating this as equivalent to Blessing of the Raven Queen, and personally have rated it as 25 Points (Akin to Fey Step, but a worse movement option by far than teleportation) and 22 Points (For the Rider). Orc's Adrenaline Rush Dash (BA Dash, is equivalent to this in terms of movement bonus and mobility, and suffers all the same penalties for issues with terrain and hazards) got 25 points, AND it had the rider of gaining Temp HP. Thus, I give it the Adrenaline Rush 25 + Omni Resist bonus of 22. For 42 Points

Formidable by Nature: 15 Points. Author's Note: Benefits limited builds. But it is still worth 15 Points according to TM. In this case, the debate as to whether STR is more Valuable than Dex for this I think is a net neutral. Dex is a more valuable stat overall, boosting Initiative and a more relevant save. It also can meet the AC bonus of Belt of FGS and higher items by simply acquiring Serpentscale Mail, while having +5 AC, which is of a lower rarity than those items, and also not attunement.

Total Alongside Base Race: 51+57 = 108 Points.

Blue Oni

Consume Magic: 60 Points

Author's Note: It is hard to precisely rate the power of being able to cast a more limited version of Dispel Magic at an earlier level. Normal D.Magic dispels all spells on the target you cast it upon, whereas this is simply one' spell. This scales from being a 2nd level equivalent of D.Magic, up to a 6th Level Equivalent of D.Magic at level 17 once per SR. It scales off a stat that is normally never taken to 20, compared to spellcasting stats of classes, and both it - and the rider, can potentially fail and become something you cannot use until the next SR. For that, I treat this at level 1-4 as a Substantial Benefit (Near the top of it.) For a score of 30 Points. As they said, "Like a powerful spell."

However, at 5th Level - this goes up to also being a miniature targeted fireball as a BA. Which is quite strong. Which I would rate as akin to another powerful spell. For another 30 Points. Making it a 60 point feature.

Magical Blood: 10 Points As written in the primer.

Total Alongside Base Race: 51+70 = 121 Points

Gray Oni

Dependable Presence: 45 Points. Author's Note: Draconic Cry from Kobold received 45 Points from TM. And that is a feature that grants PB/LR AoE advantage to all allies around you. This is a single target reroll style feature for allies, and I'd say it is about as strong.

Thoughtful Practice: 14 Points Author's Note: Tireless Precision is a somewhat different, equally powerful version of this. So I rated it equally.

Total Alongside Base Race: 51+59 = 110 Points```

Green Oni

Twisted Soul: ```52 Points``` Author's Note: Friends is made into a useful Cantrip by this feature. Making it IMO a 7 Pointer Cantrip. Gift of Gab 1/LR as a Subtle Cast is also worth its salt as a solid spell. 15 Points. Suggestion is a great spell as a subtle cast, very strong - and thus, 30 Points.

Further Corrupted: 19 Points Author's Note: 4 Points for additional skill. Add Cha to Insight is about a 7 Pointer. Oni Shapeshifting becomes a top tier ribbon, as opposed to a low tier one, so 8 more points.

Total Alongside Base Race: 51+71 = 122 Points.

Half-Oni

Bloodline Markings: 50 Points Author's Note: This is a bit hard to quantify as it is unique, similar to Blue-Oni. The best way I can quantify this is to draw a comparison to Vedalken. Vedalken gains unconditional advantage on all mental saving throws. The vast majority of effects that will incapacitate you are of those 3 saves, and this lets you reroll that save once per LR. Vedalken gives the equivalent of rerolling it every time you are hit by it. Making Vedalken's overall more applicable and stronger in most cases when it comes to condition protection. However this has the added benefit of providing you a temporary HP buffer and a one minute duration potion of heroism style effect. So, for me I treat this effect as overall stronger than Vedalken, even if one component of it is weaker. I would view this as a 50 Point feature. I would have scaled it as something more like 60 or 70, but it is once per LR, as opposed to PB/LR or 1/SR.

Behemoth Build: 15 Points Author's Note: This is somewhat stronger than most would give it credit for. While it does not give something as strong as Hippo Build (Advantage on Strength checks and Strength Saves) - it similarly is an enabler of grapple style builds, allowing you protection against smaller sized enemy grapples, and opening up larger sized creatures for grappling. To best describe it in a way that I think makes it understood as acceptable to me. Enlarge lets you have large size, reach, damage, advantage on Str Checks and Saves, bigger auras, and better range for grappling and grappling protection. This only grants you that last benefit, which is the increased range for grappling and grappling protection.

Total Alongside Base Race: 51+65 = 116 Points.