Talk:Circle of the First Forest (5e Subclass)

I not sure I like overgrowth. I can make Strength my dump stat (8 or less). There's a good chance my Wisdom at 4th level is 18 already. This now makes my Strength 16. At 9th level I might have Wis 18, so my Strength is 18. It's like having a +10 modifier to an ability score. Marasmusine (talk) 08:23, 15 April 2016 (MDT)

On Overgrowth

I have always been unhappy with overgrowth and through playtesting i have found it to be overpowered as well. However I still want a first forest druid to feel strong. You are a powerful plant creature made of wood. You should be able to lift heavy things, support people riding on your back, that is what I was going for. I would really like some assistance in redoing this ability to keep the feel of the archetype while not making it overpowered... Hades996 (talk)

Maybe require the use of a bloom point or restrict it to once a long rest? SirSprinkles (talk) 17:23, 29 June 2016 (MDT)

Empowered Bloom

Empowered Bloom seems a little overpowered as well as causing some disagreements when it comes to things such as Legendary Resistance where a creature can choose to succeed on a saving throw. May I suggest that it imposes disadvantage on saving throws against bloom effects instead of just an auto fail and maybe make it an ability that has multiple uses? crazyevilbob (talk) 13:34, 1 September 2016 (MDT)

Comments and Suggestions

Hello again, fellow wikian! As you requested, here are some comments on the Circle of the First Forest.

• In General. I see that you gain some archetype features on a level which you don't normally supposed to get one. Is this intentional? Not only this is downright ignoring the archetype feature spread, this makes a certan level extremely strong compared to others. I suggest you either move them and substitute with other features, or just erase them totally.

• Bloom. I am against using a separate resources, when you already have a decent resource called the spell slots. Even if you get to have it, it's too much - see monk's ki and sorcerer sorcery points to see how many bloom points you get. And this is already a full-level spellcaster, right?

I skimmed through the bloom feature lists, and noticed that many of them allows to cast a certain spell without expending a spell slot. And your bloom point is restored when you finish a short rest, right? And, again, druid is already a full-level spellcaster, right? The upshot of all this is that it makes druid outrageously overpowered.

The number of bloom options are also outrageous. By 20th level I can use, what, forty bloom options? Heck, even most of the spellcasters don't get that much. Wizards may have a slightly more spells in his/her spellbookby 20th level, but even they can choose up to 15 spells from that list, whereas you just have your forty bloom options all the time. Too much, I say.

Oh, and bloom spells are not considered as spells? And they don't need concentration whatsoever? Overpowered,flat, no doubt. There is simply no way you can at least stop a First Forest!druid from doing whatever he/she wants to do. antimagic field is a costly spell, mind you.

You might want to consult the monk's Way of Four Elements to see that, when an archetype provides a list of options that you can choose from, those options are pretty much all the archetype allows. And even then it's powerful enough. This archetype gives you a list of options you can choose from and some fixed features at a certain level.

• Plant Familiar. This feature has a improvement at 8th level, when you have an Ability Score Improvement. It's mediocre, but still an 8th-level feature improvement.

So your familiar have better stats and that's fine but what good is that? Your familiar cannot attack anyway, and +20 hit point maximum at best is little more than a blow or two at lower levels, and not even a single blow at higher level.

Communication in miles basis? And I thought your familiar would be with you along the adventure? This is an extremely overpowered version of sending stones.

• Overgrowth. A feature given at 4th level, when you don't get an archetype feature at all. Like Marasmusine said above, this makes Strength a total dump stat. By 4th level this may be a petty feature, but at higher level your Strength is pretty much equal to your Wisdom.

• Great Wood Origin. Note that full-level spellcaster seldoms get an Extra Attack feature, mostly because they already have a whopping spellcasting ability and that's even more versatile and powerful than an additional blow. Also, "fey creatures treat you with respect"? Like in, any cases?

• Empowered Bloom. Again, a feature given at 8th level, when you don't get an archetype feature at all. Plus, auto-failing the spell save? At 1 bloom point? Even if it's once per long rest, it's still too absurdly strong.

• Regrowth. Oh, and now you're referring to spell slots? Also, note that you never reach sub-zero hit points in 5th edition - you just hit 0 and begin dying. I'm not a big fan of multiplying calculations, what if I happen to have Wisdom score below 10 and have negative' Wisdom modifier? Adding (a minimum of 1) always helps, but I suggest you just use the simple sum calculation.

• Animal Sympathy. I'm terribly sorry to say this, but this feature is downright Mary Sue. Chances are, your DM will refuse to make an encounter with beasts, monstrosities, plants, and fey (which is like half of the available monster type) or your campaign will be a sequence of instant friendzone.

• Nature's Gift. This is one feature that makes bloom point overpowered. This means that you can cast some of the strongest spells up to, what, five to six times per short rest?

• Archdruid. You must specify that this replaces the pre-existing Archdruid feature. Even then so, a simple +4 bonus to Wisdom is not exactly... wel... impressive for a capstone feature.

• Bloom Effects. I counted 39 bloom effects total, from which you choose up to all of them? That is just too broken for a feature, this includes some powerful spells already, and you always have them prepared, and you can cast them at short rest basis, no restriction or anything. Again, you might want to consult the monk's Way of Four Elements archetype for numbers, resource cost, and restriction for this type of options.

It's not specified, but I must ask: I cast the spell at the lowest level possible, right?

Phew! That was long. I didn't delve deep into all bloom effects, it would be too tiresome for both you and me. In short: Not a bad idea itself, but I do think that there are many rooms to be improved. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 07:25, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

I have playtested this class and it is pretty neat. The way I use bloom points is spending more according to the spells level. For example a 3 level bloom demands 3 bloom points to be cast and so on.That encourages players to use bloom as an utility tool rather than a full blown nuclear power. Makes you think twice before casting or gaining those 'level 4 blooms' cause on 7th/8th level you have 7 bloom points all and all. Let's not forget these druids don't have access to Wild Shape which is HUGE. By the way all the features gained on unsuitable levels are meant to match any feature gained that affects wild shaping (Again, First Forest Druids cannot wild shape so there must be something that affects bloom instead). I personally love this class and find the idea behind it beautiful and highly enjoyable. Some things like empowered bloom are too powerful but with several tweaks they works like a clock (causes dissadvantage instead of auto fail but can be used again after a short rest). I found the way I use bloom to be very enjoyable and practical, although i think about tweaking the bloom points gained to be somehow more evened out and fitting to how I let my players use them. By the way, level 18 is outrageous but at that point you already are a demigod. Wizards can cast wish, mind you. --Nekristus (talk) 17:27, 28 January 2018 (MST)