Talk:Card Dealer (5e Class)

I don't know what the spell list will be like yet, but... with a few exceptions, a new spell slot level is considered the "feature" for that level. ATM this class has full spellcasting, with extra features on new-spell-slot levels, and good armor and weapons and extra attacks. Marasmusine (talk) 14:42, 8 December 2016 (MST)

Perpahps th ecreation of a couple class theamed spells would be good, such as the Gamblers Luck Matrial(1 decks of cards attuened to user) the cards alter as the a game is played, add the gabit die (or add a set buff) to improve your chances. MarkedCards 112MST:11/2/2020

Balance

• Wording of Extra Attack is incorrect. Please look at the wording in the PHB, and see how your current wording is overpowered (christ especially if you multiclass with a class that has the regular Extra Attack.
• Dipping in at random, I see Cards of Gold, "Also, enemies have a random chance (95+ on d10%) to be stunned for one turn.". It isn't made clear that this happens on a successful attack with a card, I assume this is the case. This also introduces an additional percentile roll with every attack.
• There's basically poor definitional and terminology wording everywhere. Marasmusine (talk) 05:49, 10 February 2017 (MST)

You Have Failed This City

When referring to crossbow ammo, its bolts, not arrows. (Heading is Green Arrow reference) --Gekkouga (talk) 06:41, 10 February 2017 (MST)

Opinions and Suggestions

This is a great idea, my only thing is Flamming Spades, Poison CLubs, and Sharpened Dimond feel the same, but also have indvual problems. Spades is a DC8 which the majoirty of low level creatures can make even with a 0 mod as it gives less than a 50% chance to pass, then add in a modifer such as +1 now in thought the DC becomes a 7. But at higher levels the DC gets (in thought) becomes a negitive redering the effect useless on all bounds. Poison clubs is 8+Die, now this is much better as it gives a way of leveling it, now it seems like it may have the chnce to become op but I can't speak on that as at most I've got to midlow levels with it. My Suggestion is that set the DCs the same or add a Negative (which may also level with it as too keep the thing from being op at higher levels), also each one of Flamming Poison Sharp do the same stuff which is damage + time, why not give them alternative effect and not just do the same. Sharp should be a single roll for one time damage, such as a 2d12+Die on a failed save, then half as much when the level is higher, Flamming could be used to cause temp disadvatage or stay the same but with leveling damage. Poison could stay the same depending on if fire stays the same and cuase healing effects to be asborbed into it. TDLR: The magic card section needs balenncing and vartion, but nothing so major its currently unplayable nor so bad its no fun, its till a fun class. MarkedCards 100MST:11/2/2020

Before I take a look at the class, I first read the suggestions from Marasmusine above. It took me about five seconds to guess that hey, this might be inspired by Twisted Fate and turns out I was right. Yes, he is cool and all, a lovely character, but I do think Marasmusine have some good points above. So, here are some of my suggestions:

• Equipments. I notice the card dealer has no non-combat equipments whatsoever, except for a deck of cards, which may be considered as the gaming set (RAW, I do not see why it would not). No dungeoneer's pack or explorer's pack or anything. Sure, combat is an important factor in roleplaying games, but so are non-combat situations.

One thing I love about roleplaying game is that, you do not always have to fight for what you want. You can either play a game of intellect or minds, bribe and flatter the sucker into getting what you desire, or even beat them at their own game by building traps and even smashing down an entire dungeon even before you enter it. The fluff is actually very important to the roleplaying game, and when I see the card dealer in that aspect, I see so many potentials just... wasted. I think this can be improved.

• Deck Dealer. Like I said above, a deck of cards is already in D&D as a gaming set, so I suggest you use the pre-existing gaming set and gives the card dealer a feature that uses it as a weapon. Furthermore, I suggest giving two ranges, one normal range and one long range, to give him a wider range, albeit attacking enemies within long range imposes disadvantages. (As in: Twisted Fate's Q skill has a long range, but it is easy to avoid, right?)

• Deck Dealer Improvement. One interesting feature of the 5th edition is the proficiency bonus. The basic is, you add your proficiency bonus in the attack roll when you make a weapon attack with a weapon you are proficient in. This gives, statistically speaking, +10% (at 1st level) to +30% (at 17th level) probability to hit a target, which is extremely important in 5th edition statistics. (FYI: 3.5rd had a serious inflation issues with numbers, you can make a whopping +21 on your attack roll at like 10th level or something.) I do not find why the card dealer, of all people, cannot gain proficiency in flinging cards as a weapon from the 1st level.

• Deck Dealer Improvement, Take Two. One of the major difference between the 3.5rd and 5th is the critical modifier, which is changed into an exclusive feature for the fighter's Champion archetype. Even barbarians do not have increased critical hit range (although they do get Brutal Critical feature, which suits the class). I suggest you think of an alternative for this feature.

• Spellcasting. The card dealer almost need no spell slots to cast a single spell, then why bother to have them? I guess you are confusing the concept of spell slots and spells known, which are completely different concept. Either you add how many spells the card dealer knows on each level, or you completely get rid off the spell slots. See monk's Way of Four Elements disciplines or warlock's invocations for help.

• Casino Background. I was expecting something more than just a combat enhancement at the feature name, as in, you can attempt to cheat dramatically at gambling or something. Besides, I understand that the "enchant the next card with a spell" part is from Twisted Fate's W skill, is somewhat vague - can I enchant cards with a spell that makes an attack roll, or can I do with something else? Must I throw the card at someone to cast it, or I can just touch the target with the card and that will do the trick? Do I expend any spell slots when I enchant the card? Such vagueness can cause mayhem at the hand of a determined loonie.

• Extra Attack. What Marasmusine said above. Besides, the only class that is granted Extra Attack beyond the first is... again, the fighter.

• Dice Roll. Can I reroll other's attack roll (oh, and it is not hit roll, it is attack roll)? How exactly is the gambler point enables me to reroll the dice, when the character does not know that someone else is rolling a die to determine whether the attack is hit or not? This is the part where the fluffs comes in, to describe how this feature makes sense in the story and roleplaying, apart from the statistic parts.

• Infernal Destroyer. This seems so out-of-place, I can place it next to my collection of crystal skulls and Antikythera mechanisms. Why would a gambler who fights with a deck of cards destroy the freakin' hordes of infernal armies?

• Card Assassin. Reactions must be used in response to something else. When can I attack with my cards?

• Pick a Card. Twisted Fate's W skill, right?

• Cards of Gold. Like Marasmusine said above, using percentile dice is highly discouraged in the 5th edition. I suggest you force the target to make a saving throw.

• Cards of Frost. The 3rd-level feature sounds vague. Who do I restore hit points (again, it is not healing health, it is restoring hit points)? Myself (which, I guess, is RAI)? Or the target (which, I am afraid, might be the current RAW)?

• Multiclassing: Prerequisites. See Multiclassing on the PHB and every class prerequisites are capped at ability scores of 13. Unless there is a reason behind an unusually high ability score cap, I suggest reducing the score prerequisites.

• Proficiencies. Note that multiclassing does not provide all of the classes' weapon and armor proficiencies. Even fighters has less proficiencies when multiclassed.

My overall opinion is, the fluffs and roleplaying potentials are so wasted in the class, and most of them are poorly balanced in an attempt to reproduce Twisted Fate from League of Legends in the roleplaying game system. MOBA games does not allow you to interact others without punching them in the face, while in tabletop roleplaying games, combat is actually an option to deal with the problems. I think there must be a way or two to improve this class, with so much potentials and interesting premises, into something much, much interesting and balanced class. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 07:17, 10 February 2017 (MST)

Rework

This page has not been updated or revised for half a month (save for a minor changes, which still does not count as a revision) and I see someone else is working on another version of Card Dealer. This page is good as abandoned... Maybe I am nosing around this time, but this page deserves a rework. Mind if I get on with it? --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 17:47, 1 March 2017 (MST)

Thank you for remaking my prized class for a more realistic attempt. I thank everyone on here and have switches to a new account. Love you all and stay awesome. --DM Evan, formerly Relic Queen (talk) 17:21, 21 March 2017‎ (MST)

First of all, I would like to thank for your consideration. The concept was too awesome to leave it as stub and/or needsbalance. If there is one thing I think I am good at, it would be taking some awesome ideas and getting carried with them. Trust me, I will do my best to make your prized Card Dealer into an awesome class.

Oh, and I moved your comments to the Talk page, as you can see above. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 11:46, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Aaaaand the rework is complete! Special thanks to 108.46.218.137 for adding some wonderful features for the Wild Card archetype.

Oh, and if you're reading this, DM Evan - I just finished the rework of your class. I'm sorry about some harsh words I made on the reviews above, and I hope you are satisfied with the rework. If you have any comments to make, please feel free to leave them here. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 14:06, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Post Rework Question

I've been playing this class and enjoying it greatly. The character can shine in non-combat situation, while still being moderately effective in combat as well. My question pertains to the Arcane Ace archetype, and it's capstone ability. Mostly, there is a lack of options regarding spellcasting, and most of the abilities, while interesting, often have their own DC formula. Additionally, despite the quick build emphasizing Charisma, there's no real advantage gained by having it in line with the class abilities. Lastly, the Spell Thief ability states that only spells that are of a spell level you can also cast may be stolen, despite the Card dealer having zero spell levels. --Ace En D'ole (talk) 23:42, 3 January 2019 (MST)

I also have a question about this. It says in the article "(If you choose Sleight of Hand, it will affect the Master of Cards Archetype)." but it doesn't say how exactly it's affected. --73.230.207.139 19:40, 11 March 2019 (MDT)