Talk:Bard, Variant (3.5e Class)
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This class is broken. Seriously, Wail of the Banshee twice per round at will?
Three times, isn't it? Swift Action, Move action, second move action/standard action. Even at earlier levels the class is still utterly broken. Improved evasion earlier than a rogue, immunity to mind-affecting and silence, freedom of movement, charisma bonus to AC, up to +10 charisma bonus and keeps all the casting ability of a regular bard - which will give spell DCs higher than a specialist mage with improved spell focus. By level 8 you can shout twice per round (once in the first round) pretty much at will. That's 10d6 damage in a 30ft cone each round. To balance this class I'd suggest removing all the abilities other than riff (always a standard action, maybe even make it a full action), bardic music (but it doesn't affect the bard) and countersong. Then you've basically got a Bard who gets riff instead of the regular bardic music.
Power - 1/5 I give this class a 1 out of 5 because the bard gains moderate martial abilities, good spell casting powers, and numerous powerful class abilities. In addition to this, the previous comment has a point. The Riff ability can be abused to the point were this class is unplayable. --Vrail 05:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
- Consider that wail of the banshee is the only reason most people would find this abusive. You get that at level 19. By that point, the game is essentially already over and your are practically a demigod. Anyone who plays into epic levels is only perpetuating what is perhaps the stupidest idea in D&D. At level 20, the character should essentially rise to godhood and win D&D, because there's no point to really going on any further. The fact that a significant number of enemies encountered at said CR should also have immunity to death effects also renders wail less effective. This just seems like a gross overreaction to giving a level 9 spell at level 19 (oh noes!). - TG Cid 10:21, 4 March 2011 (MST)
Wording - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because there are one or two class abilities that don't read through great and I can't quite understand, however other than that, the class reads through well. --Vrail 05:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because this is a new variant on the bard changing its special abilities and making it fun to play without copying the bard a great deal. --Vrail 05:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Eeerhm, a bard that one may actually play?
Bards truly kicks arse! When someone play's a bard in my group I pledge my loyalty to him and kiss his shoes, a bard is the one and only core that is massively usefull in any RPG. Who doesn't want to play it. Now I personally havent played one yet becouse I alway's create my own classes but if ANYTHING from the normal classes I want to be a bard at any time. Please do elaborate why a bard is a bad pickings in classes over any other basic class!.
- I'll be frank, a bard is good in the sense that it can do stuff like boost other people's abilities, but when it comes to actually contributing by itself, his options are much more limited. The basic bard's music is really not super-great IMO, simply for the reason that your most viable option is to let your compadres do all the work. Doing the same thing every turn is boring, especially when in games with wizards they can just kill everything without your help. The bard would be fantastic if everyone played a fighter or monk, but honestly then you're just being a masochist. - TG Cid 10:24, 4 March 2011 (MST)
A bit much..
Supernaturally immune to silence, the swift action Riff, plus at will Wail of the Banshee.. That, all added together, make an overpowered class. Not even a 19th level wizard can do that; that's what makes something balanced--it's gotta be balanced against other classes. Even greater shout 2x a round at will is too much. Put in some sort of restriction on the Riff ability; it doesn't need to be that powerful.
Keep it a standard action, and I could see it /maybe/, and still I'd question the at-will during Bardic music.
I'd also suggest the additions from bardic music be to attack rolls and damage, not saving throws, but that's just me.
Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because per class abilities, it is the best of any bardic class
Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it seems complete and well described
Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because I don't understand what this rating was about
Flavor - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because while its power is absolutely incredible, it can easily overwhelm a campaign and requires a lot of discretion before a DM allows a character to play the variant. Best suited for enemies for fairness