Talk:Archer (3.5e Class)

Notes

This class is an adaptation of a custom class I found online a few years ago by an author handled, Shadowfoot, one whom is known on other boards for having created a volume of very high quality custom classes. So all creative credit due goes to him/her. I had no issue using the class as in original form before but I thought I should refit it this time around in order to extend the content, and smooth out some technical issues.

What I love most about this class is actually focus on a solid concept of archery. One that revolves around stillness, focus, patience, etc. rather then one where accuracy or power is achieved by shooting on the run or in a flurry.

Ill be adding addition class fluff and sample character soon.

Plz discuss non-grammer/coding edits made to the existing material here first, at least until I have finished and moved on. This page will be used as a reference for my gaming group. Otherwise feel free to add your own Special archery abilities, Called shots, etc. SomethingClever 17:50, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I love archers, but I've never found one that worked the way I wanted it to. This one looks promising; I'll definitely keep my eye on it. JazzMan 19:16, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I have added the final touches to the content and marked class as complete. Obviously there are more sections in the template that could be add but I really dont see the point in arbitrarily add sections like religion, alignment, etc when they obviously dont apply or otherwise not of sufficient worth so no campaign information. I may come back at some point to add a sample but im otherwise done.

Hopeful I can get this paged link to homebrewed class table before to long. SomethingClever

It's there now. Classes are automatically added to their pages, you just didn't have it in the correct categories and the automatic functions weren't finding it. JazzMan 04:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

It appears I forgot to save my last edit yesterday evening but it's all there now.

Thanks for looking taking a look Jazzman, this twice now Ive had that issue, maybe you (or someone else)could give me a pointer and show me what Im doing wrong. SomethingClever

Comment

Why bother with a second attack bonus? You could accomplish almost the same by having a bonus to hit with bows at certain levels. +1 at 1st level, increasing at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th. This gives you the exact same BAB progression which makes things easier to keep track of and gets rid of 4 dead levels. The only downside is you don't get iterative attacks so quickly and you don't get as many, but this is a class that gives up all of its iterative attacks for multiple rounds at a time, so I don't think anyone will be crying about that!

You should also consider having minimum levels for your Special Archery Bonus, or else have better prereqs (especially if those prereqs are other SABs, creating trees). The reason I say this is that some of the SABs are clearly better than others, and there's no real cost/benefit tradeoff.

Other than that, it's a very interesting class. I've yet to see a ranged class that actually gives you too many options to choose from! JazzMan 04:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

You are right about staged bonuses producing the same effect as alternative attack bonus for combat purposes. However this which you have purposed would be problematic in the sense that it delays access to feats and PrC_s particularly feats in the weapon focus line. Basically, The Archer need to have full BAB or an ability that fully compensates for full BAB in combat and during character creation. So your suggestion would need to be refined, as such: archer gain condition bonus to effective BAB +1/5 levels. In which we find ourselves at the junction of tomato-tomato. Also I dont think there is much math or complication involved with two types of attack bonus, your AAB (or effective BAB) is equal to your level, but Ill add some text or the entry just to clear it up a bit

Again you are exactly right, regarding the Special Archery Abilities (SAAs). Prerereqs where put in place more so for flavor then anything and many of the weaker abilities will not have much of, if any appeal at all, to player who are overly concerned with power but then again the class as a whole is a bit low-powered(LP) and delay access to any of the better SAAs would just make that more apparent.

I think the solution here is tweak aim a little so that it's damage output will matchup to consecutive round by round attacks, and close the power gap between different abilities by beefing up LP abilities(like Ricochet shot) and only then re-req and tree the abilities.

So it's starting to seem like Ill never move on from this project. SomethingClever

Oh, I forgot about qualifying for feats. In that case, you should probably just get rid of the 3/4 BAB bonus altogether. If you want to make the distinction that they are *only* effective with bows, maybe they take a penalty to attack with any non-bow (in addition to the likely -4 non proficiency penalty). The idea of two base attack bonuses is unprecedented in D&D and to me it's the only real sticking point in this class.

An author's work is never done :) JazzMan 20:34, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Careful, some might view "unprecedented" as an encouragement <:D. Cant wait to show you my Mentat Monk; uses a three interchangeable base save modifiers which are reconfigured daily, along with four additional forms of Flurry-of-Blows. SomethingClever --JK

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it offers a balanced array of special abilities and has a clear strength as well as weaknesses that can be utilized either way to make for balanced and challenging encounters. --Vrail 05:16, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the wording used was clearly understandable and fluent in most cases. --Vrail 05:16, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Formatting - 2/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because this class is missing two sections neer the top and numerous informative sections neer the bottom that help playing and designing an effective character of this class. --Vrail 05:16, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the archer is a much needed addition to the wiki that has not yet been brought up. This also offers a slight variant on a typical archer and interesting and unique class progressions due to the multitude of optional special abilities. --Vrail 05:16, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions

Klas Wull.

Suggestion

It is very neat table. I like the idea of Archers bonus feats. I suggest replacing second Aim with Eagle Eye Shot from Sourcebook War. Keep the first Aim.

Eagle Eye Shot

doubles the dex modifiers to an ranged attack.

the second Eagle Eye Shot, it tripples.

Replace The third Aim with Ranged Sneak Attack

Replace some Aim with Low Light Vision So the Archer can aim in weak morninglight.

Replace the last Aim.

with Killing Shot. Killing shot always applies the weapons full critical damage.

Another suggested: Immobilized Shot Impale and spike a target to a tree.

• The special abilites.

Good but to many. I think as many as four or just as few as 3 abilites should be ideal flexibility.

Table

I suggest switching to the fighters saves. The Archer is still a fighter to sustain injury and not a rouge.

Table: The Archer

Hit Die: d8

Level	BAB	AAB	Saving Throws			Special
			Fort	Ref	Will
1st	+0	+1	+0	+2	+0	Archer’s Aptitude, Aim (+1d6), Archery Feat
2nd	+1	+2	+0	+3	+0	Archery Feat
3rd	+2	+3	+ 1	+3	+1	Eagle Eye Shot 1st
4th	+3	+4	+1	+4	+1	Archery Feat, Defensive Shot
5th	+3	+5	+1	+4	+1	Ranged Sneak Attack
6th	+4	+6+1	+2	+5	+2	Archery Feat
7th	+5	+7+2	+2	+5	+2	Low Light Vision
8th	+6/+1	+8+3	+2	+6	+2	Archery Feat
9th	+6/+1	+9/+4	+3	+6	+3	Eagle Eye Shot 2nd
10th	+7/+2	+10/+5	+3	+7	+3	Intimidating Shot
11th	+8/+3	+11/+6/+1	+3	+7	+3	Aim (+2d8)
12th	+9/+4	+12/+7/+2	+4	+8	+4	Immobilizing Shot
13th	+9/+4	+13/+8/+3	+4	+8	+4	Ranged Sneak Attack 2nd
14th	+10/+5	+14/+9/+4	+4	+9	+4	Special Ability
15th	+11/+6/+1	+15/+10/+5	+5	+9	+5	Aim (+4d8)
16th	+12/+7/+2	+16/+11/+6/+1 r	Special Ability
17th	+12/+7/+2	+17/+12/+7/+2	+5	+10	+5	Aim (+5d8)
18th	+13/+8/+3	+18/+13/+8/+3	+6	+11	+6	Special Ability
19th	+14/+9/+4	+19/+14/+9/+4	+6	+11	+6	Killing Shot
20th	+15/+10/+5	+20/+15/+10/+5	+6	+12	+6	Special Ability

If you compare with sparpshooter prestige class. I did feel that the special abilties are to many and the class is to flexible.

I did consider keeping the archer bonus feats and replace the Special Ability with feats.

Rating

Power - 2/5 This class is better than fighter, but it has some huge drawbacks. First off, it's only a competent combatant in the first round of combat. It's great for an ambush. You hide in the bushes and watch your enemy... then BAM! an extra 1d8 dmg. cool, but after that you are useless. You have to spend rounds dealing no damage and all you get in return is the same damage you lost. How is that a good thing at all? I would suggest progressing the bonus to attack rolls when aiming by level rather than by rounds spent aiming. --Andreichekov 11:34, 13 December 2011 (MST)

Wording - 5/5 I found the wordiness of this adequate in all regards. --Andreichekov 11:34, 13 December 2011 (MST)

Formatting - 4/5 The AAB is silly. It would be better to just have a BAB, and give them a penalty to attack rolls with melee weapons. Something like -1 at first level, and progress to -5 at 20th level, so it works the same way as a 3/4 BAB, but doesn't have two tables for it. It's just wasted space, and a bad ability. --Andreichekov 11:34, 13 December 2011 (MST)

Flavor - 5/5 I love the flavor of this class. It takes an aspect of DnD that has been long lacking, or at least, it was always better to play a melee character over a ranged one. I approve of this attempt at change. --Andreichekov 11:34, 13 December 2011 (MST)

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because because it has enough power to make it a viable playable class, a good enemy NPC, and it also allows the archer to jump into melee should the need arise. Furthermore, I enjoyed the abilities you put in towards the later part of the Archer's career because it allows the player to customize the class to fit their play style. One thing I would add that I didn't see (maybe I read past it) is the ability to shoot from a threatened square x-number of times per day. I know that the Order of the Bow Initiate class has it and it's the only good thing about that class. Perhaps you should consider it. --108.162.210.134 18:17, 15 March 2012 (MDT)

Wording - 4.99/5 I give this class a 4.99 out of 5 because Grammar made it a bit difficult to understand things. But it's nothing that's a deal-breaker or anything. --108.162.210.134 18:17, 15 March 2012 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it's easy to just copy and paste! --108.162.210.134 18:17, 15 March 2012 (MDT)

Flavor - 6/5 I give this class a 6 out of 5 because it's hard to find a true archer. One, that is, which doesn't suck or have to take feats to be an archer (and only a decent one at that!), so I am glad you took the time to do this. I'm actually making a homebrew 3.5 campaign and I'm going to make this one of the available classes. Thanks again for all your hard work! --108.162.210.134 18:17, 15 March 2012 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it is a bit less powerful than most classes since you need to wait 3 rounds to get a good shot --Artimil liadon (talk) 12:32, 21 May 2012 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because I didn't have any trouble reading it --Artimil liadon (talk) 12:32, 21 May 2012 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --Artimil liadon (talk) 12:32, 21 May 2012 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it opens many new gameplay options --Artimil liadon (talk) 12:32, 21 May 2012 (MDT)