Talk:Arcane Puppeteer (5e Class)

Do we not receive a proficiance bonus for leveling up in this class?

The person who made this class did not use the "add new" button at 5e Classes, so it doesn't have the standard class level table (which includes proficiency bonus) Marasmusine (talk) 16:02, 20 October 2016 (MDT)

Is this class finished and ready for feedback? Marasmusine (talk) 16:12, 20 October 2016 (MDT)

rewrite

i have no idea if this class is abandoned but i really love it (wont lie the pic of sasori from naruto bought me on it ) and i plan to use it in a future D&D with my friends as the creepy puppeteer and i read on your sheet marasmusine that you would rewrite classes to bring them up to standard if your payed and since i really do love this class i would be very willing to pay to have it rewritten and brought up to standard so i can use it (our DM said no unfinished classes) i just have no idea how to tell you this other then putting it on the class and hoping you see it like last time thank you yes ..horrible noob here who still has no clue how the site fully works but *shrugs* still learning i am new after all thank you

Okay, rewrite now in progress. Marasmusine (talk) 02:26, 19 November 2016 (MST)

Some notes.

• Repairing marionettes expends a resource - money - and rarer marionettes cost more money. The only limit to which marionettes can be built is the initial time and expense. A 1st level character who comes upon a windfall of 5,000 gp can build a rare marionette. But the repair cost makes it risky to use, until the character reaches a level when treasure rewards catch up with it.
• 10th level, the player can now attack with two marionettes, or one marionette and her own weapon. Its not an extra attack like frontline fighters get, but the puppeteer has the benefit of attacking from different positions. Marasmusine (talk) 05:39, 27 November 2016 (MST)
• To Do. More marionettes need adding, I will try and fill out one "role" (combat, defence, support) for each rarity. Fill in the remaining features for the puppet schools. For those interested in this class, give me all your ideas. I'm thinking of another school that focuses on puppets other than marionettes. Marasmusine (talk) 05:43, 27 November 2016 (MST)

A warning about the 7th level Simulacra feature: You get to craft a medium-sized puppet that has... 3 less AC than a small puppet. The HP base (40) is the same as any other puppets' you create (also 40), since only the basic marionette has 25 HP. This creates a large hole in the actual class, or well the subclass of Simulacra. So it would be quite beneficial to add either more HP and maybe lower the initial AC of small puppets and raise it for the meidum-sized ones. Me and my DM will discuss this for our campaign ,as this class is an amazing idea! But just to let everyone know, i find this as quite an impactful flaw.

Ideas

Alright puppet ideas. Legendary Puppet Dragon or Wyvern; Has a fly speed of 40 , Breath attack of Arcane mist that hurts all enemy's in an area. Powerful bite attack maybe a 2d6 , 3d4?

A full Defense rare puppet maybe an obsidian knight or orc knight ; increased Ac maybe by 2 or 3 , the ability if near an alley to block an attack and take the damage itself maybe. Make it one size bigger then whatever the size would be when you make it.

A Lich Puppet; Maybe a bonus vs undead creatures , Maybe spells like turn undead and such, A fear Ability like the Phrike Marionette , Maybe not sure if its no powerfull if you use your own spell slots you can cast certain necromancy spells through the puppet

Alright Another idea ...a Support Royal King puppet. Gives Buffs to near by ally's Maybe adding something to there chance to hit or skill checks. An Ability to give Temporary Hit points?

Sorry for the delay, I will put those ideas in ASAP.

O take your time no rush this were just ideas to help if they can not a good item creator but i try hope they help

I forgot about some gaps. I added an 11th level feature for the School of Simulacra (replacing the "half crafting time" that an anonymous user put in - that's not how crafting works, and the other school already has that feature!), and I added some support marionettes that improve crafting.

To do: Adding some legendary puppets per suggestion above. School of Adroitness features. Marasmusine (talk) 15:02, 11 January 2017 (MST)

My idea for a puppet: a mount puppet could prove very useful, thought probably uncanny in populated areas. But for purposes of travel, it feels like a really good investment. Plus, aesthetically wise it could look like anything and have the properties of a standard mount. Another Idea I have, regarding the Telchine puppet. I'd just replace it with a four-handed puppet that can shoot projectiles from it's wrists (same 2d10 Dex ST and instead of poison just physical --> springed bolts). The actual Telchine creature sounds unfitting and unpractical for its purpose.

Alright i have a new idea that may help i think its cool. the idea is split between a puppet that can help crafting like the other artisan puppets or a attack puppet but here it is. A multi hand puppet, Six hands three on each side. if you want to use it for crafting it could be a grand master artisan a legend wearing a cloak hiding his extra hands. with so many arms he can work on ever last piece of the puppet at once helping create them much much faster maybe even reducing the cost of repairs or such. If you want it to be offensive it could be cloaked warrior who shows her true form when the battle begins Mybe give her a multi attack or an area attack since she has multiple arms.

Puppetry Expertise

An anonymous user made [1] this change. Please note that "Intelligence" must be stated for these skills. In the case of Deception, Intelligence is being used instead of Charisma (per "Skills with Different Abilities", PHB p. 175). Marasmusine (talk) 02:12, 6 January 2017 (MST)

Are marionettes able to wield weapons and items? also maybe there should be some cantrips,just saying. Can the characters ride marionettes?

Hand and Shadow Puppets

What are the stats?

I just wanted to say, this is a really well-done class. From my experience, that seems to not happen very often on dandwiki (of course there are still some amazing classes but they seem to be rare), so it's nice to see a breath of fresh air. Reminds me a lot of Summoner-esque classes, but with puppets.

Problem with Puppets

Is the "Shield guardians could be made with various sizes and strengths, but the simplest and cheapest to make stood about nine feet (nearly three meters) tall and weighed over 1,200 pounds (540 kilograms). They looked something like a large stick figure made of wood with rocky appendages and metal parts." part just flavor text or does it actually effect the size and the weight of the puppet? if not can you please specify so the class doesn't contradict itself also the last three marionettes could use some polish; for example is payday an illusion, are their a bunch of fake, but realistic, coins stored inside of it. Also does royal presence affect everybody, even hostile creatures, and what is its range, 30 ft sounds good. also Wyverns don't have a breath weapon, so what does arcane breath mean? Also i'm going to assume the Lich puppets spell book follows the same rules as a normal wizards spell book does.

To what extent does the mending cantrip fix the marionettes, what I mean is does the mending cantrip nullify the "Repairing Marionettes" feature or is it something else?

Questions about Marionette sizes, and the final ability for School of Adroitness

Marionette Sizes

So i get that you start off with the common marionette, and it then lists that it is an arcane marionette and that all arcane marionettes are small sized, and that the School of Simulacra allows you to make a medium sized marionette, but there are clearly written contradictions in the list of marionettes, such as the Shield Guardian Marionette being written as Shield guardians could be made with various sizes and strengths, but the simplest and cheapest to make stood aboutabout nine feet (nearly three meters) tall and weighed over 1,200 pounds (540 kilograms) which according to this Size Chart are large sized. Can we get some clarification of this or just maybe a size being attached to each marionette, or just confirmation that they are all small (with the exception of obviously the example i just provided which needs addresing).

School of Adroitness, Master Craftsman, and Animate Object

School of Adroitness

'Marionette Master: Starting at 18th level you can build marionettes of almost any size. When building your marionettes you can following the rules in the Animated Object Statistics chart from the spell Animate Objects (Adjust AC and HP accordingly for the Master Craftsman Feat). The marionettes you create with these statistics also have all of the benefits of the type of marionette they are.

• So then i read this and get a little confused, I 'assume' that it replaces the stat block with the stats provided by animate object spell which is nice, but does this mean that if i have two Huge sized marionettes that I can use the "Marionette Fusion" ability gained at 15th level to get a Gargantuan one? (I would love this but it might get a tad ridiculous, though even just controlling two Huge sized constructs seems a tad much). How much do higher sized constructs weigh normally, and how small does it get when folded? Following the proggresion of small to medium i could assume a gain of 40lbs each size or double the weight of the previous size and that the fold is always a size smaller, EX; Small: 40lbs Folds Tiny, Medium: 80lbs Folds Small, Large: 120/160lbs Folds Medium, Huge: 180/320lbs Folds Large (If we are using the Size chart it gets even heavier) its a pretty important question considering the large diffrence in weight the huge one would have, and a concern for trying to allocate space/weight in your trunk.

I think a pretty easy fix for the potential balance in at least reguard to fusion is making larger marionettes cost more. "GM: Sure you can make those two huge sized constructs, now you can use them to fight off the army of the kingdom you robbed to pay for them! :D"

• How in the heck does the Master Craftsman feat affect its AC and HP? (Do i add double Proficiency to both? Admittedly I'm not very familiar with Downtime rules so this may involve that in some way)

So in conclusion i'm just looking for clarification of size rulings and it the effects of the final ability for School of Adroitness fully mesh with other class abilites, and thank you very much for readin this. :)

--Uplandhawk 05:21, 16 January 2018 (MST)

Recent Updates

Hey guys,

I've recently been making quality of life changes to the class since one of my players wanted to roll one of these and we found some inconsistencies/problems. I'll continue to be making changes as I quite enjoy adding things to this class.

--HeadChefRamsay 11:02 PM, September 8th, 2018 (EST)

More puppets ideas

Some more puppets choices would be cool, like some more commons one or in the middle, i can try to create some when i have the time later.

Also, the Unwilling Puppet feature would be cool to be usable on willing creatures too, so you can use it to help your allys whitout being that op since it also provokes Attacks of Opportunity

A question about Puppet Finesse, does it allow me to for example attack with one puppet as an action and then attack with another as an bonus action? basically letting me do two puppets actions in one turn along with the free one puppet movement

Loving this class btw, gonna play it for my next table. --GravityRaposa (talk) 11:43, 3 November 2022 (MDT)

Got one puppet idea, there is a lack of healing puppets on the higher levels so a new puppet that maybe uses healing word or another healing spell. also could use a mechanic of upgrading puppets, per example if you have the cleric puppet and wants this higher healing puppet you can at the expense of the puppet get the new one at a lower cost e/or time,like you're upgrading it in a way --GravityRaposa (talk) 17:27, 4 November 2022 (MDT)