Talk:Angel, Variant (5e Race)

Musicus Meter Score: 7

This race has a score of 7 according to the Musicus Meter race guidelines. With this metric, first-party races' scores range from 4.5 to 8. This is a guideline, not a rule, and it's important to use your own judgment alongside this scoring.

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--ConcealedLight (talk) 15:40, 15 February 2018 (MST)

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The ability scores were a bit over the top so I cleaned them up to make the character more appealing.

posted ?

I looked around a bit looked some stuff up and made some adjustments that maybe better

Unrestricted flight at 1st level

I based myself on the flying elf template it looked balanced and made it a bit more powerful because its an angel

Angelic Gift doesn't explain how the revive works.

I found 2 days a bit to short so made it a week I guess the angels uses its supernatural powers.

Aura of Light doesn't explain what it means for the light to be "controlled".

Just got rid of the controlled part and made it a radius

and 5e doesn't have "standard actions".

I think when I wrote this somebody edit it out so no idea

Does Holy Wraith work with Strength checks, Strength saves, Strength skills?

I nerfed it form 4 to 3 and made it all

What language is "Tongues"?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/tongues.htm

it looked a bit to powerful to be able to use that ability all the time non-stop and changed it in Sylvan looked like something a angel could do.

How does Death's Grace work?

(maybe get x% of it opponents health?)

posted 10/11/15

Hm, okay, let's be sure though, are you wanting to make a race for 5th edition? (rather than 3rd)? Marasmusine (talk) 14:36, 10 November 2015 (MST)

5th

11/11/15

Doing some editing to try and make it less OP than it was, clearly not a PHB balanced race but good for a stronger campaign. 4/28/16

Easiest thing to do is to make a base set of balanced traits that works for any campaign. Then add feats for all the things that would otherwise make it overpowered. Then if the DM is running a "stronger campaign", she can say "okay, you also start with two feats" or whatever. Marasmusine (talk) 11:31, 28 April 2016 (MDT)

I have been cutting and making it less OP for 15 min and its still extremely overpowered 02 05 2016

This race will probably need a custom background, as an urchin angel or whatever might not make sense. Marasmusine (talk) 09:33, 9 May 2016 (MDT)

Is this what you really call OP?? The Assimar is more OP than this and they are only HALF celestial, the point of this class is to be BETTER than humans since you're an angel. You took an admittedly OP class and made them less than a human.....

Reverted the page to a previous version with some edits, I think flying is a major benefit early but fades as you progress. It's hard to "balance" a full on Celestial but if you elect to not allow the sub race I think it's fairly balanced with other races.--Suppoko (talk) 12:12, 26 May 2016 (MDT)

My rough guideline is that a race has two major traits and one minor trait, or one major trait and three minor traits (give or take)

At the time of writing, this race has:

+2 to free choice of ability score (minor)

Flight (major)

Darkvision (minor, and please can we have this written out correctly)

Aura (trivial. Also not "per short/long rest", it's "you can use this feature again after a long or short rest")

Prayer - unrated, please don't change the length of long rests. The rest of your party still needs 8 hours for a long rest, you so get two long rests in a row, which is enough to restore all your hit points and hit dice. Maybe this was meant to be something like the elves trance?

Immortal (minor)

Divine resistance (minor and trivial; normally a resistance would be minor but radiant is not a common damage type inflicted on PCs)

So as a _base_ we have one major trait, four minor traits and two trivial traits.

On top of this we have the subraces.

Both have +1 fixed and +1 variable ability score adjustments on top of the base adjustments (major)

Death's Grace. Doesn't say if this uses an action, or what the range is. This is very powerful at low to mid tier, less useful at higher levels, still I shall rate this as major.

Unholy Advancement. Frequent advantage on any roll (major)

I have to stop this short, but in summary, yes, very overpowered. I would start by eliminating the subraces. Marasmusine (talk) 13:28, 26 May 2016 (MDT)

Just a quicky, I'm looking at the angels in the MM (because it would be worth making this race have some internal consistency with, you know, D&D angels. There are a lot of powerful things angels can do, it might be worth spreading things over 5 or so class levels. Marasmusine (talk) 13:35, 26 May 2016 (MDT)

One could make the point that immortal is trivial considering the length of a PC career is not lifelong, and the number of magical aging effects are few and far between, the aura is of no consequence as whomever made it gave us no "special" ability for it and decided to call it holy just for grins and will be removed so I would counter with 1/3/2 which puts us in line with your guidelines. Lastly I put optional for the subraces as they are indeed something that drives the race over the top but I feel that their abilities wouldn't be powerful enough to warrant a racial feat.--Suppoko (talk) 17:56, 26 May 2016 (MDT)

having taken a look at your barbed devil race I feel the angel race belongs back in the finished category, the sub races are optional and I have stated this multiple times on the main page and as I have discussed previous the traits are not over powered. The fly is the ONLY thing that could be brought into question but even that is dependent on the player and the class chosen. So pretty much I am saying that I would like the angel moved.--Suppoko (talk) 07:24, 2 June 2016 (MDT)

There's also still work to be done here. The traits need writing out in full. 5e doesn't have "move actions" or "standard actions". Why do they know sylvan. "Per short rest" etc. needs writing out as "You regain the use of this feature when you finish a short rest." For the optional "high power" subraces, you need a shorter header with the rationale stated underneath. Some traits are just incomplete, for example Divine Presence: what is the range of the power? What is the Wisdom saving throw (not "save") DC? What does "ignoring" the angel mean, can the angel just start hitting the enemy without any reprisal? It says "once a day" and also "restored after a long rest", which is it? This is just a few examples. Marasmusine (talk) 16:29, 16 June 2016 (MDT)

I removed the sub-races completely after play testing they are way too OP and need fixing or just left gone.

I apologize for posting in what seems to be a dead topic, but I have a few ideas for changing some details.

1. Replace "Move" Action with either "Minor," or "Major" action.
2. Add "Evil" to alignment, as the History does make mention of "Unholy" Angels.
3. Sylvan is related to Fey, so being a creature of Holy (and Unholy, if the idea goes through)they can naturally commune with these supernatural beings as they themselves are beings of mystical powers. Common is well...Common, and being Angelic grants natural Celestial as a language.

These are my suggestions. I'd ask first before I make any serious changes to the page and get in trouble. Also, seems like someone recreated the race and added "Angel Weapons." Should something be done about that? Nightmares are dreams too... (talk) 02:39, 5 November 2016 (MDT)

5e doesn't have "move", "minor" or "major" actions. It would be a bonus action. "Wings" shouldn't even be a trait. Hiding a part of your body doesn't require a special trait or action, the DM can adjudicate this just fine.

In my opinion, this race needs gutting and rewriting. Marasmusine (talk) 04:12, 5 November 2016 (MDT)

I think you're wrong, it does need a couple tweaks and I haven't been on much to fix them but to say it needs a complete rewrite is way off. I've been playing one to see how and where it needs changed. Why does it need to be rewritten? I don't see the logic--Suppoko (talk) 07:03, 5 November 2016 (MDT)

Okay. It's a combination of little things. It seems a bit feeble and doesn't tie in with the lore or mechanics of 5e angels. Mind if I try a partial rewrite? Marasmusine (talk) 08:31, 5 November 2016 (MDT)

I mean I guess so? I'd rather have that than you just delete all of it. I have no idea what you mean when you talk about lore and mechanics of angels in 5th since they're just a sheet in the MM.--Suppoko (talk) 08:40, 5 November 2016 (MDT)

I'll do it at Angel (5e Race), since that has the correct (non-plural) page title. Marasmusine (talk) 09:22, 5 November 2016 (MDT)

lol I'm sorry but what the hell is your problem today? You're going through and nitpicking an S on the end of the race now? There are far worse things than the few MINOR details on this page that are up in the main section here. I honestly don't know what you want anymore, everything you had an issue with is fixed, it's balanced in power and even is trait detailed which is lacking on 60% or better of the other races that are up.I tried to take a cool concept and make it playable, I guess I just give up at this point, do as you will since you're the mod here. --Suppoko (talk) 09:37, 5 November 2016 (MDT)

I'm using the singular because that's our naming convention. I could have tried out my changes here, or there. I don't know why you're upset that I chose one over the other. Anyway, you can see my rough design at Angel (5e Race), there's still a few things I want to work in (such as their resistance to exhaustion and magic). There are a lot of features that make a D&D angel an angel. I tried to make a base race with more features unlocked over class levels. Marasmusine (talk) 12:53, 5 November 2016 (MDT)

Since you're contesting the deletion proposal, I've removed it on your behalf. Marasmusine (talk) 12:58, 5 November 2016 (MDT)

Blegh. My group of friends do actions differently, and I was kind of asleep when I posted. I was thinking "Main Action," and "Minor Action" (At least for my group of friends.) It could have counted as a "Bonus action," though. But I see that things are working out? (Nervous laugh) Nightmares are dreams too... (talk) 14:16, 5 November 2016 (MDT)

I hope it's okay, at Angel (5e Race) I used some snippets of your angel description from this page. Marasmusine (talk) 03:15, 21 November 2016 (MST)

No such movement type as "glide", even if there were it'd be redundant since the race has an identical fly speed. Angelic Combat Training is an enormous boost to the race; compared to the benefits you'd see from a Mountain Dwarf's Armor Training and Dwarven Combat Training. Heavy Armor and Shields can dramatically alter outcomes for some classes. Consider the advantages for an Angel Bard, Sorcerer or Warlock. A Variant Human would need to take Moderately Armored AND Heavily Armored AND Weapon Master to get an equivalent benefit (ability bonuses aside). Taken together, the benefit is clearly greater than the value of a single feat. I'd strongly recommend reworking this as Light+Medium armor proficiency with either a set list of 4 weapons or two martial weapons of choice.Vaegrim (talk) 21:05, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

Does anybody still think that we need this page, when we have Angel (5e Race)? No matter how you cut it, it's always going to be missing something that one would expect from an angel, and even then it's still slightly over the edge balance-wise (it's the early flight really). Marasmusine (talk) 10:51, 13 August 2017 (MDT)

I agree, this page is not needed since Angel (5e Race) exists. Recommend marking it a candidate for deletion with this as the reason. --Turtl3Up (talk) 21:43, 4 September 2017 (MDT)

I don't know. These are two distinct Races. One has levels on it. Not a fan of racial levels, esp in 5e. If the OP would listen and compromise on things I think "Angels" (named incorrectly and now lost dibs on proper title) would be a great race. I've read flight guidelines and I think 20' flight speed in light or no armor is a fix. At 5th level it increases to 25' and medium armor and 10th level, 30' and no armor restriction. Other races have some scaling features, Angels could too. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 14:17, 10 September 2017 (MDT)