Talk:Android (Dragon Ball Supplement)
Android Discussion Page[edit]
Race Balancing[edit]
Latest Changes[edit]
Hello there! As the creator of the race, I have some doubts about the nerfs it received. I'll state them below:
- Android Transformation Nerf
I understand the Android transformation is quite strong in early game (1-14), I just don't see why the nerfs took place. If you take into account that even in early stages of the game, races gain unique forms that alongside traits or feats allow them to keep up while not nerfing them in any way shape or form, this doesn't seem very good for balance.
Giving them this transformation early on serves to make Androids stronger early game, but weaker mid to late game as everyone else has stronger forms. Not to mention, they'll have to wait much later to utilize Ki Charge, which is another point as to why this transformation isn't as bad as it seems.
With all my heart, I ask that the android transformation regains its score buffs, as it made Androids stand out (at least early game).
- Tough Hide
Making Tough Hide optional removes any sort of uniqueness androids had. This feature was rightfully nerfed by Paul (which I understood, I didn't had the Variant Rule in mind while creating it), and it was what made Androids unique compared to other races. If you compare to other features, this trait falls off hard late game (which is similar to how androids function in Dragom Ball) compared to other racial traits.
Let's compare it to Zenkai Boost for example, with that feature alone Saiyans can achieve a base bonus stronger than the Android transformation, which is their entire thing!
I honestly think it should go back to being a part of the main race, since like I said before, it takes everything unique the race might have, since gaining transformations early is not unique for the races in this supplement.
Like always, my suggestions have the supplement in mind, as I think players wouldn't want to play the Android race as it currently stands. Xandelicious (talk) 20:18, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
- Hi broda, sorry to respond so later. lets go by part *^____^*
- Android Transformation: The main reason for this is that you gain a transformation for free without it counting toward your transformation limit (if you have one). This makes you stronger than Frost Demons, who are the only other race with a Score Related level 1 transformation that has no maintenance cost (Bio-Androids also have, but they can also get Frost Demon's... lol). You get a +2 to all PHY scores without any drawbacks. While most races have to spend Ki Points for their transformations, you trade have acess to base form for a total of +5 to your stats. (if you reach lv60, things get crazy, as you can put two base or two form)
- Another key point is that you can completely bypass the Ki Charge restriction—by leveling up just once after unlocking Ki Charge, you gain access to Advanced Techniques, allowing you to apply Grades to Android and gain more Score Points and effectively also being able to ignore any part of the Android Form as a Bonus Action. (Bonus detail: Transformation bonuses go beyond the usual stat cap, meaning that at level 39, you could have 45 in all your PHY scores.) and besides, was first suppossed to evolve with you unlocked more Technique Tiers, how it is now, you can still be a Wizard Android and still gain the effects.
- Tough Hide: This was changed to an optional feature because, as mentioned, it gave Androids too much Threshold. This would allow them to completely ignore STR scores until they reached a level where they could exceed +12 in score bonus. However, it remains a great feature, so it was made optional—if you want to give it to an Android, you can! (～￣▽￣)～
- About Saiyan Zenkai: Zenkai Boost doesn’t start at 8—it only reaches that at 25. By level 25, an Android gains a total of +12 (4 per PHY stat), while Saiyans only get 8 to distribute among any of their scores. Androids, on the other hand, get their bonus as early as level 23, with no cost or near-death requirement to trigger it.
- That was the reasoning behind these changes… and honestly, I love how the Android race turned out! Now I can make a level 1 Android without overthinking it! ♪(^∇^*) Big hugs!!!
Midalos (talk) 22:15, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
- First off, sorry for the late reply—been busy with life today, but I’m glad I waited to see how this discussion developed.
- Regarding the Android Transformation, I do see your point about it standing out early game while falling off later. But when comparing it to the Zenkai Boost, which gives Saiyans a +8 at level 30, Androids actually still maintain an edge with a +15 bonus at that level, so considering no consumption bonuses, that's that, so their power progression is definitely solid. However, I think there might be a middle ground that lets Androids access their full transformation bonus earlier in a way that keeps it balanced if you're open to the idea.
- One idea is to allow them to willfully activate the full power of their transformation earlier, either by:
- Paying a currency (Ki or another resource) to sustain it
- Having it active for a limited time per rest (kind of like a temporary overclock mode).
- Or whatever else you think.
- This would give Androids the option to tap into their full power when needed as you originally intended, without making it permanently active until they naturally reach that level, just as Midalos has done. If that sounds reasonable, I’d be happy to see your take on it, or if you have another opinion, let me know, I just think that having a +5 bonus right off the bat for example in levels 1 - 5 will be a little problematic in the hands of players as it's a baked in feature, if you have any other way to keep the bonus while making some other sort of temporary drawback I'm also open to that.
- As for Tough Hide, I actually think it’s a solid feature and not too overpowered as a core racial trait. I don’t mind it staying as a defining aspect of Androids. However, just to make sure that everyone can still get the most out of the race and not just a specific build, I’d suggest adding an alternative feature that can be taken instead of tough hide, for those who might not get much use out of Tough Hide, especially STR-based Androids since the threshold will be useless for them. Maybe something like an integrated scanning system (built-in Ki Sense) or another Android-like utility. I’ll leave that up to you. -- P@uL (talk) 23:31, 3 March 2025 (UTC)
- A Little idea on it, why don't allow the Android it to have the choice to choose between the Threshold or one that gives Ki Sense for Free and for every level where would increase the damage threshold, you would gain more range (something like 1/4 extra range)?.--Midalos (talk) 00:42, 4 March 2025 (UTC)
Hey quick question can you be both a mechanic type and a evol model at the same time cause wording rn kind says we can -killshot
- That's correct. They're both just racial traits, you don't have to pick between one or the other. Spooks2222 (talk) 03:41, 6 March 2025 (UTC)
Hey was the design philosophy for this race to be able to fit all Androids or only the man-made ones not including cyborgs?- killshot