Talk:Alternative Armor Table (5e Variant Rule)

Issues

I have a few issues with this. I get that this is a variant rule, but there are a few concerns with it. My major issue is it makes heavy armor practically useless. Brigandine armor is just a better studded leather armor for the same price, and with it high Dexterity players can get just as good of an AC as heavy armor players without the disadvantages of requiring Strength and giving you disadvantage on Stealth checks. Medium armor is also buffed, so it is just as good as heavy armor, if not better. Most people that are wearing medium armor will have at least a +2 to Dexterity, so it makes half plate and scale mail just as good, if not better, than most heavy armors and lacking a few of the disadvantages, like cost and a Strength requirement. I understand it's a variant rule, but it feels like a straight-up buff to Dexterity-focused characters like rogues, bards, and Dexterity fighters while giving nothing to Strength-based martial characters like Strength-based fighters and paladins. --MarshDASavage (talk) 06:44, 7 January 2022 (MST)

These are valid concerns and good reasons to choose not to use this table in a game. Ultimately, buffing light and medium armor to have equivalent potential AC was one of the primary goals of this table, so I have no intent to nerf the maximum defenses. My justification is that it feels unnecessary to limit light and medium armor users to 17 AC while anyone who chooses a race with natural armor or picks up mage armor can also achieve 18 AC. To me, the strength requirements of heavy armor aren't any more of a disadvantage than the dexterity requirements of getting the most out of lighter armors. You use heavy armor when you want to use strength to attack, and the advantage of using strength is access to the strongest weapons. You are right that brigandine is probably too cheap for what it offers and half plate is essentially just better than full plate since it requires only 14 Dex compared to 16 Str, so I will be fixing that. --Malachai (talk) 07:18, 26 January 2022 (MST)

Dexterity-based characters don't need the AC buff though. They already have a ton of advantages over Strength-based characters, like being able to dodge AoE effects more easily, being able to use ranged weapons, and having more skills. There's a reason Dexterity is considered a primary ability score while Strength isn't. Even if Strength-based characters have a slight advantage in the form of their damage output, giving Dexterity-based characters a straight-up buff with light and medium armor being just as good as heavy armor takes away one of the two advantages that Strength-based characters have.

Let me give an example. A character with a Dexterity of 16 instead of a Strength of 16 could take Half Plate instead of Plate for half the GP cost, less weight, the same AC, and a +3 to Dexterity saving throws and Stealth, Sleight of Hand, and Acrobatics checks instead of Strength saving throws and Athletics checks, which come up waaaaay less. This comprises my main issue with the table; it makes Strength useless. Even if you get a slight damage boost by using Strength, Dexterity just has so many advantages over Strength already, and this makes it even worse. (P.S. Mage Armor is a 1st-level spell; Brigandine Armor provides the same benefit for free.) --MarshDASavage (talk) 11:06, 26 January 2022 (MST)

You make good points, so I'll buff heavy armor despite my affinity for even numbers. As for Brigandine, I still don't see a problem with its AC. If it being as good as Mage Armor (which works without proficiency) is a problem, then the presence of natural armor granting the same calculation for free is a bigger problem already. No one's going to start with Brigandine except possibly an Artificer, so a 150g investment feels fair to me. --Malachai (talk) 22:04, 26 January 2022 (MST)

My issue with brigandine was mostly because of how it stacked up with heavy armor. Looking back on it, it isn't as huge of an issue as I made it out to be. However, like I said, it provides the same benefit as Mage Armor. In addition, there's only one race that gets 13 + Dexterity to unarmored AC off the bat- a Lizardfolk. Tortle has a 17 AC naturally, but they can't wear armor, and Loxodons only get 12 + their Constitution modifier, which allows them to be equivalent to studded leather armor but use a different ability score. Warforged, Simic Hybrid, and Shifter both get +1 boosts to their AC, which is generally a bit better than having an unarmored defense, but the Shifter's only applies for a specific subrace while shifted, and the Simic Hybrid's only works if you are not wearing heavy armor. Something you'll notice, though, is that there are only a few (lesser played) races that get this, and the races that get this have it as one of their primary features. Unarmored Defense is surprisingly rare in the official content, and it shouldn't be discounted. (Also, just a side note: The only race with an Unarmored Defense of 13, the Lizardfolk, doesn't get a bonus to Dexterity, which mitigates how high they can get their AC just a little.)

I don't have an major issues with the table as it is currently. I still don't like how brigandine armor is the same as or better than Mage Armor and most Unarmored Defense features, but I can see why it's there, and I wouldn't change it. Now Strength builds are still viable, with the slight boost to Heavy Armor AC. Nice. --MarshDASavage (talk) 07:18, 27 January 2022 (MST)