Talk:3.5e Legacy Equipment

From what I've gathered, the idea is that the particular weapon, armor, or item allows for strong magical abilities the wielder can use at will, usually in exchange for something else. It seems that a general base-requirement is that the player be at least level 5, at which a new ability is given per level until level 20 (For a total of 15 abilities). The thing that is sacrificed, which I assume is as penitence for the power being used, most typically comes in the form of an attack penalty, save penalty, or loss of health - though other's do exist. Another guideline tends to be all work is at least a "+1", though not everything is of "Masterwork" quality. For example, some that the book list are the following:

Bloodcrier's Hammer - Large +1 warhammer - 2,324 gp - Draws it's power from the earth

Divine Spark - Symbol of resistance +1 - 1,050 gp - Tool of faith for the open mind

Frostburn's Wrath - Masterwork/+1 quarterstaff - 2,640 gp - Channels the power of winter

Each of these are on page 28 of Weapons of Legacy.

An example of one, the first Bloodcrier's Hammer is the following:

Table 3-2: Bloodcrier's Hammer

-----Personal Costs-----

Wielder Level // Attack Penalty // Save Penalty // Hit Point Loss // Abilities

5th // - // - // - // Large +2 warhammer

6th // - // - // 4 // Earthseeker

7th // - // - // - // Pathbreaker

8th // - // -1 // - // Earth stature 1/day

9th // -1 // - // 2 // The earth provides

10th // - // - // - // Deny earth's embrace

11th // - // - // - // Large +3 warhammer

12th // - // - // 2 // Earthen stature at will

13th // - // - // - // - (There is not an Ability)

14th // -2 // - // - // Large +4 warhammer

15th // - // - // 2 // Stony resistance

16th // - // -2 // - // Meld into stone 1/day

17th // - // - // - // Large +5 warhammer', terra obscura

18th // - // -3 // 2 // Wall of stone 2/day

19th // - // - // 2 // Earthwalker's bane

20th // - // - // 2 // Ignore earth's clutch

The real table can be found on page 30 of Weapons of Legacy.

I am uncertain if there are any requirements to using Legacy Weapons and Armor in terms of Feats, other than the obvious proficiency, but the book actually outlines basic quest ideas on how to obtain such items. These are, for all intensive purposes, similarly to the Daedric Shrine Quests commonly known throughout The Elder Scrolls series.

Basically it would appear that as the player advances in levels, so does their Legacy item. They are able to use the "Abilities" at will, at the cost of something such as losing health or for that turn losing points in their saving throws. Some of these Abilities are passive and as such require no such cost.

If we, as a community, could start building items like this it would really further all campaigns and add a new difficulty to fighting bosses or overcoming obstacles. I had not seen anything in terms of "Epic Legacy" Weapons or Armor, however I'm sure the collective mind here at D&D Wiki could come up with something for that, too.-C.Haugen.

When I get chance I'll make up a template and preload. In 4e equipment always plays second fiddle to class powers and features, so I'm not yet sure how it could work. Perhaps the item's powers replace class powers (and that would also be your "penalty"). This kind of thing is also covered by artifacts. Artifacts increase in power as your concordance with it improves - if one of the concordance increase triggers is "you gain a level" then boom, there's your legendary item. Marasmusine (talk) 00:48, 6 September 2013 (MDT)

In order to use any of the Abilities on the Legacy item, you must enact and successfully complete one of the Legacy Rituals, outline in the book. Once finished, you gain the use of the Abilities that are unlocked at your Level. A Level 7 player gets Abilities at 5th, 6th, and 7th Level but not 8th. These are divided into three groups: Least (5th - 10th Level), Lesser (11th - 16th Level), and Great (17th - 20th). There are a few in the back of the book for Legacy items that go as high as Level 30, though I am uncertain yet if those are "Great" or "Greater" or "Epic". I read something (Page 12):

Learn Legacy: You instantly gain the knowledge of the next legacy ritual required to continue unlocking your item’s abilities, as if you had succeeded on the required Knowledge (history) check.

I do not know if this means that, using the previous example, that going from 7th Level to 8th Level means you automatically unlock the Ability to be used, or if you must preform some cosponsoring ritual to unlock it once you reach 8th Level; The wording is just vague enough that it currently does not make sense.

Lastly something I've noticed is that the effects, once gained, seem to be semi-permanent. There is a Prestige Class as well as 10 "Legacy Feats" which act similarly to Feats such as Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Specialization... They allow you to do more with what you've got. These are on Page 14. Later, on Page 20 is the Prestige Class Table: The Legacy Champion. This allows such Specials as: Bonus legacy feat (Why it's not "Ability is beyond me; Typo, perhaps?), Replace legacy ability (Lesser), and Reduced ritual cost (greater).

Based upon all of this, it almost seems as though once you've completed the ritual, you unlock the Ability, though this in of itself only allows you so many at a time. By becoming a Champion of Legacy, you are allowed more. Are they more by the way of what the item naturally unlocks, or more by the way of additional Abilities you can add on (Pages 188 - 204) is not specifically mentioned. What I mean is, if your weapon, let's call it Soulbreaker (A weapon I made for TES: Morrowind), has the following:

Abilities: A, B, C, D, E, F, G.

Are you only able to use one at a time? Only Ability A, or only Ability E?

Or, are you allowed to use all; Abilities A, B, C, D, E, F, & G however by becoming a Champion of Legacy you can add / swap out Abilities.

Turning A, B, C, D, E, F, G

Into: A, B, 1, D, 2, 3, G, 4, 5, 6.

The book has a nasty habit of not explaining enough, which is making me wonder if that is why I can't find any trace of it on any other Wiki out there.

Lastly, in terms of the "cost", it seems that some are a permanent effect until the item is disposed of or until the Ability is swapped out. While other's are a By Use basis.

Some will diminish your Skill Points, Saving Throw Points, or even give a permanent Attack Roll penalty. In fact, a full list of theoretical Homebrew tables are on pages 185 - 187.

For the Homebrew Weapon of Legacy I was quickly throwing together, I decided to make things a bit less complicated, and a bit less permanent.

You could use the weapon's Ability. It could cost you an Attack Penalty, a Saving Throw, physically cause HP loss, and almost all cost Experience. My idea was going to break it up into two types:

Activation: Must be used; Ability is dormant.

Constant: Always active so long as it is within your inventory / worn / held.

For example, my hammer I was making had the chance to cause massive Cold Damage of various types. You could do this by swinging the hammer and successfully striking the target. Other parts simply existed and need not cost anything. An example of each is the following:

Activation: If not activated, this Ability does not mathematically exist.

Cost: Per Activation: 1,200 Experience Points: Recovery; No.

Attack of Opportunity: Yes

Icicled: As a Standard Action, <Weapon's Name> grows sharp ice spikes on the striking faces, increasing the damage from 2d6 up to 4d8. The spikes cause additional cold damage of 1d4 per point in the wielder’s Intelligence Modifier, to a maximum of 5d4. The new 4d8 damage and cold damage lasts for as many Rounds as equal to the wielder’s Intelligence Modifier, after which time the ice spikes shatter. The ice spikes have a hardness of 15 and 25 health. Destroying the ice spikes will end this effect prematurely. Fire-based attacks will deal x2 damage to the ice spikes. The Critical Threat Range is increased by 1 during this duration with the normal Critical Multiplier of x3. There is no Critical for the cold damage. During this time <Weapon’s Name> is considered to deal Piercing Damage as well as Bludgeoning Damage. Icicled's cold damage will stack with other effects of cold damage.

Activation: If not activated, this Ability does not mathematically exist.

Cost: 1 Saving Throw Point/Round of use: Recovery; 1 day

Cost: 150 Experience Points/Round of use: Recovery; No.

Attack of Opportunity: No.

Chill Metal: Upon a successful strike on anything that is wearing or made out of metal, it takes damage depending on how many rounds it has been freezing for. Striking with this Ability a second time while the first time is already in effect will speed up the current damage by one round. If it is already at it’s maximum amount of damage, it will prolong it by one additional round. The cold damage can not exceed the maximum damage per round that is initially caused. Chill Metal’s cold damage will stack with other effects of cold damage.

Constant: So long as you have this Ability and this weapon within your hands, it exists.

Cost: Nothing.

Large +3 Greathammer, Cold Resistance 20 Points.

All lengthy posts aside, basically what I've done (Since the book was confusing and vague) was state that some "cost" must be paid per use. Depending on the type of cost and the type of use, it may be recoverable. Also, some may provoke Attack of Opportunities. Experience cost was set into place because you are activating magic through a, essentially, magical item. Since experience is already the basic means of "magicka" for most spells, I felt it only proper to add this to the Legacy Items; This way the player's can not merely OP. You actually have to give up something in order to both activate and than use the item's Abilities.

Those were mere rough outlines of what I was building; Just the first draft. Sorry this was so lengthy, it's just the book doesn't make it very clear so I assumed I'd take what I understood and fill in the blanks elsewhere. -C.Haugen.

Okay, I had chance to quickly look at Weapons of Legacy. I've made a preload that closely matches the format in the book - try creating a new one at 3.5e Legacy Equipment. Might need to make a few things clear, for example explicitly stating that you need to gain the least legacy ritual before you can use the abilities for level 5 to 10. Marasmusine (talk) 01:09, 8 September 2013 (MDT)