Discussion:Cambions and Tieflings

Cambions & Tieflings

So, I was working on this, and while I was doing research, I found my way to the entry on the MM about Cambions. In the PHB, Tieflings are the descendents of human/fiend pairings, and the MM describes Cambions as the same. What determines whether the offspring becomes one or the other? Tieflings are associated more with Asmodeus, and Cambions with Graz'zt, but neither of them are necessarily directly related. The Tieflings entry implies that it's a generational thing, that they are part of a long line of fiendish ancestors. Are Tieflings just the distant descendents of Cambions then? --Kydo (talk) 00:34, 21 October 2015 (MDT)

I think the difference is that since Tieflings are associated with Asmodeus which means that they are part devil; however, as Cambions are associated with Graz'zt that means they are part demon. Azernath (talk) 10:27, 21 October 2015 (MDT)

--Kydo (talk) 14:08, 21 October 2015 (MDT)

But neither entry specified that they need to be either or, nor that they are necessarily even descended from those particular fiends.

Mythologicaly, Cambions are supposed to be the offspring of succubi and incubi, and the name has similar meaning to "changeling". The entry on succubi/incubi even states Cambions are their likely offspring, but they are neither demon nor devil.

Marasmusine (talk) 15:50, 22 October 2015 (MDT)

Going to the earliest mentions in D&D:

• Cambions: 1e Monster Manual 2: Male "Semi-demons" produced when a human female mates with a demon, so are only one generation removed from true demons. They share the resistances of the other demons of that edition (e.g. can only be hurt with cold iron), and can be found among demonic hierarchy. Alu-demons are the female equivalent (offspring of a succubi).
• Tiefling: A "planetouched" human (i.e. fiendish ancestry, generations removed) according to Planescape. They can sometimes integrate into human society "at the edges", it's doubtful a cambion would manage (or want) this.

--Kydo (talk) 08:17, 23 October 2015 (MDT)

But that would mean that, however unlikely, the earliest ancestor of every tiefling must have been a cambion; the first generation from that union would have been half-blooded fiends. (They didn't actually have to be male; a female cambion was called an alu-fiend back then)

Marasmusine (talk) 08:41, 23 October 2015 (MDT)

Unless the tiefling was descended from other demon crossbreeds such as daemonfey (Forgotten Realms), or from other fiendish creatures that are not demons (e.g. devils; and 3rd edition also has the Fiendish template that almost any creature could be native to the lower planes.)

I found your subraces quite interesting by the way, quite a neat way of doing half-things. Marasmusine (talk) 08:43, 23 October 2015 (MDT)

--Kydo (talk) 08:55, 23 October 2015 (MDT)

Well that's as clear as mud at least. I suppose if we wait a bit, we'll probably get a few more fiend-blooded creatures to flesh out the possible ancestry of tieflings as a racial group.

Thanks. They were inspired by an idea a friend of mine had. He wanted to play the classic "Dwelf" for comedic value, and decided to represent it by choosing High Elf instead of a Dwarven subrace. It actually worked pretty well, so then I went to tinkering.

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