Talk:Buckler (variant) (5e Equipment)

I saw a buckler on this site and didn't think it sounded all that amazing so I tweaked it a little. I didn't want to change someones work so a just created it as a variant. There needs to be a good reason for someone to use a buckler like being able to wield a buckler and a two handed weapon which is an accurate portrayal of a buckler. An AC +1 bonus seemed flavorless and it makes perfect sense that you would be able to hold a two handed weapon since bucklers attach to the forearm and don't require the use of a hand so you would therefore have your off hand free.

My deletion rationale isn't displaying properly (I think because I used an external link), I'll quote it here:

Bucklers are not worn on the forearm by definition. See the Wikipedia article, also interesting discussion at http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=9575 - in any event it wouldn't be effective with a two-handed weapon, and mechanically it gives two-handed weapon users some AC "for free" when there should be a harder decision between sword-and-board and two-handed.

Marasmusine (talk) 01:31, 8 April 2015 (MDT)

Why would you want to delete it though? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's a bad idea. Just chooses no to use this rule set. We are using it in my 5e game and pathfinder also offers a similar stat set up.

We aim to have homebrew equipment here feasible and balanced. Marasmusine (talk) 16:25, 9 April 2015 (MDT)

So as far as being feasible you do know it's a fantasy game, right? None of this is really feasible. Things like healing surges and Elven cloaks are all not feasible and as far as balanced have you looked at the weapons on the wiki lately? There is a barbed dagger on here and that does 2d4 of damage and it's a simple weapon! A wizard could duel wield those and wreck! Don't tell me that's not un-balanced this buckler here only gives a AC+1 bonus and let's you still use two handed weapons. I fail to see how this is in anyway overpowered or not feasible. Maybe focus on the things that are actually crazy powerful and un-balanced but even then who cares? It's not like you are forced to use any of this! So what if it's crazy and not "feasible" it's fantasy and it's fun and if you don't like it then don't use it.

The barbed dagger is unbalanced, and was tagged as such when you posted this.

Healing surges and hit points are an abstraction, and so not a fair comparison.

Elven cloaks aren't in 5e but they sound magical. Is this buckler magical? Maybe it should be. 1 point of AC is worth more than in 3e and 4e, with its "flatter" scaling. +1 AC for 15 gp is a big deal when a two-handed weapon user would normally have to find a suit of magic armor for that.

One way I can think of maybe balancing it is give the wielder the +1 AC if they don't attack with a weapon held in that hand. Marasmusine (talk) 07:26, 13 April 2015 (MDT)

I'm not comparing my buckler and hit points but what I am saying is you said this buckler was not feasible and so in response I just wanted to point out that something like a healing surge is not really feasible. So you care about the buckler being historically accurate but everything else fantasy it fine. You said it's not feasible which is hilarious to be when you are talking about a fantasy game. You're right Elven cloaks aren't in 5e I got the name wrong the cloak of Elvenkind is what i had in mind. None of this is canon and no one is being made to use my buckler so it's ridiculous that you are finding this item to be so outrageous that you want it to be deleted you don't have to use it! People on this site seem to want to have what others work removed instead of just letting them be creative. I have seen things that I find unbalanced and crazy but I don't want to bash someones work or have it deleted. If I see it I just move on because I don't like it but that doesn't mean it's not good. So what if something is unbalanced I'll say it again because you seem to not get it: If you don'y like it, don't use it.

The game has a basis in reality, with a layer of abstraction, and a sprinkling of magic and the laws of drama. "Fantasy" doesn't mean we abandon the basis. A human can't wield a sword in their nose. Armor doesn't fall through your body when you try to wear it. I don't know how a shield on one arm benefits someone fighting with a two-handed weapon, unless they stop fighting with that weapon so they can raise their arm and hope the blow doesn't knock the ungripped shield around the arm. Maybe maybe there's some medieval fighting style that you know about. Look, I haven't deleted the article even though two weeks have gone. We are having a conversation. I'm trying to find a compromise. There's my idea above, but here's another one. Let a character have the +1 AC if they choose to take disadvantage on attack rolls with a two handed weapon or weapon held in that hand. Marasmusine (talk) 14:31, 13 April 2015 (MDT)

It's a wiki. At the bottom of every edit page it says "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here.". If a name change and mechanical balancing upsets you, then correct, this site is not for you. Marasmusine (talk) 12:09, 16 April 2015 (MDT)

[1] (Civilty Policy) (1:1). --Marasmusine (talk) 04:11, 17 April 2015 (MDT).

It's not as simple as "if you don't like it, don't use it" - we expect articles here to meet some minimum standard of quality, for both writing and mechanics. You've reverted it, that's fine, you can do that. Could you at least do better than "As long as there is no other weapon is being wielded by the same arm as the buckler the ac bonus remains", as that doesn't quite make sense.

I renamed it to "targe" because that actually was a small shield worn on the arm with straps (and sometimes mistakenly called a buckler) that could conceivably leave the hand free. A buckler is, by definition, a shield held in a fist grip. Marasmusine (talk) 04:23, 17 April 2015 (MDT)

The special rule has changed a bit, but the wording is still shaky, so I want to make sure I understand it correctly.

• If I'm wielding a two-handed weapon - a situation where both my arms are committed to controling the weapon - I get +1 AC.
• If I'm wielding a single one-handed weapon, I get the AC (even if the buckler is on the same arm that I'm wielding the weapon in?)
• If I'm wielding two weapons - a situation where I could conceivably commit one arm to blocking and another to attacking - I don't get the AC.

I'm sure I must have this wrong, please let me know. Marasmusine (talk) 02:29, 18 April 2015 (MDT)