https://www.dandwiki.com/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Hijax&feedformat=atomD&D Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T02:10:46ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.8https://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Jester_Jokes_(DnD_Other)&diff=355870Jester Jokes (DnD Other)2009-05-03T17:18:13Z<p>Hijax: /* Bad joke 2 */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author|author_name=Ganteka|date_created=16 June 2008|status=Add Your Own Joke}}<br />
<br />
<br />
=Jester Jokes=<br />
<br />
Have you ever needed a joke to add flavor you a court jester, street performer, amusing child or eccentric fellow. Here shall be a place to find them. Feel free to add your own.<br />
<br />
==Joke 1==<br />
<br />
Q: What kind of monster brings you chocolates and flowers before it eats you?<br />
<br />
A: A Romanticore.<br />
<br />
==Joke 2==<br />
<br />
Q: What do you call a man with no arms and no legs laying in front of a door?<br />
<br />
A: Matt<br />
<br />
==Joke 3==<br />
<br />
Q: What do you call a man with no arms and no legs floating in a lake?<br />
<br />
A: Bob<br />
<br />
==Joke 4==<br />
<br />
Q: What do you call a man with no arms and no legs sitting in a hole?<br />
<br />
A: Phil<br />
<br />
==Joke 5==<br />
<br />
Q: What do you call a man with no arms and no legs hanging on the wall?<br />
<br />
A: Art<br />
<br />
==Joke 6==<br />
<br />
Q: Why do dwarves have such big nostrils?<br />
<br />
A: Because they have big fingers.<br />
<br />
==Joke 7==<br />
<br />
A horse walks into a bar and yells "Hey!".<br />
<br />
==Joke 8==<br />
<br />
Three dragons walk into a bar... there were no survivors.<br />
<br />
==Joke 9==<br />
<br />
2 humans walk into a bar, the halfling walks under it.<br />
<br />
=Bad Jokes=<br />
For the jesters that aren't really that funny.<br />
==Bad Joke 1==<br />
A barbarian, a rogue and a wizard are sitting in a sinking boat. The rogue is hiding so the barbarian throws the wizard overboard.<br />
<br />
==Bad joke 2==<br />
A barbarian, a rogue and a wizard is sitting in a sinking boat. The rogue is hiding and the wizard teleports away, so the barbarian jumps overboard himself.<br />
<br />
=Pickup Lines=<br />
<br />
Because hey, it happens a lot in bars.<br />
<br />
==Pickup Line 1==<br />
<br />
"Is that a rod of lordly might in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"<br />
<br />
==Pickup Line 2==<br />
<br />
"Maybe it's just your <i>charm</i> spell, but your hotness is overcoming my fire resistance."<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Others Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Other]]</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Jester_Jokes_(DnD_Other)&diff=355869Jester Jokes (DnD Other)2009-05-03T17:16:31Z<p>Hijax: /* Bad Joke 1 */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author|author_name=Ganteka|date_created=16 June 2008|status=Add Your Own Joke}}<br />
<br />
<br />
=Jester Jokes=<br />
<br />
Have you ever needed a joke to add flavor you a court jester, street performer, amusing child or eccentric fellow. Here shall be a place to find them. Feel free to add your own.<br />
<br />
==Joke 1==<br />
<br />
Q: What kind of monster brings you chocolates and flowers before it eats you?<br />
<br />
A: A Romanticore.<br />
<br />
==Joke 2==<br />
<br />
Q: What do you call a man with no arms and no legs laying in front of a door?<br />
<br />
A: Matt<br />
<br />
==Joke 3==<br />
<br />
Q: What do you call a man with no arms and no legs floating in a lake?<br />
<br />
A: Bob<br />
<br />
==Joke 4==<br />
<br />
Q: What do you call a man with no arms and no legs sitting in a hole?<br />
<br />
A: Phil<br />
<br />
==Joke 5==<br />
<br />
Q: What do you call a man with no arms and no legs hanging on the wall?<br />
<br />
A: Art<br />
<br />
==Joke 6==<br />
<br />
Q: Why do dwarves have such big nostrils?<br />
<br />
A: Because they have big fingers.<br />
<br />
==Joke 7==<br />
<br />
A horse walks into a bar and yells "Hey!".<br />
<br />
==Joke 8==<br />
<br />
Three dragons walk into a bar... there were no survivors.<br />
<br />
==Joke 9==<br />
<br />
2 humans walk into a bar, the halfling walks under it.<br />
<br />
=Bad Jokes=<br />
For the jesters that aren't really that funny.<br />
==Bad Joke 1==<br />
A barbarian, a rogue and a wizard are sitting in a sinking boat. The rogue is hiding so the barbarian throws the wizard overboard.<br />
<br />
==Bad joke 2==<br />
A barbarian, a rouge and a wizard is sitting in a sinking boat. The rouge is hiding and the wizard teleports away, so the barbarian jumps overboard himself.<br />
<br />
=Pickup Lines=<br />
<br />
Because hey, it happens a lot in bars.<br />
<br />
==Pickup Line 1==<br />
<br />
"Is that a rod of lordly might in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"<br />
<br />
==Pickup Line 2==<br />
<br />
"Maybe it's just your <i>charm</i> spell, but your hotness is overcoming my fire resistance."<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Others Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Other]]</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Evil_Weather_(3.5e_Variant_Rule)&diff=353737Talk:Evil Weather (3.5e Variant Rule)2009-04-26T18:37:36Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>I like. Since you already have the basic evil weather concept posted I figure I may as well give my suggestion to you: the effect of a Zelda-like "Dark World" curse. Baleful Polymorph on all ye who enter, washed out colors, frequent ghosts, aggressive or insane animals and people, and whatnot. What do you think? [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:15, 12 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:excellent Eiji, excellent --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 12:37, 26 April 2009 (MDT)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Protected_Casting_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=345150Talk:Protected Casting (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-04-11T07:58:02Z<p>Hijax: /* Build Problems */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Build Problems==<br />
The build takes Spellsword at level 6, but with the listed progression of Sorc4/Fighter1 it fails to have the necessary +4 BAB required to qualify for the PrC. This also means the claim lower down of taking Wiz3 to get Spellsword earlier is inaccurate. The earliest Spellsword can be taken is level 7, with both Wiz4/Sorc4 and Fighter2 working to get there.<br />
<br />
Being new, I felt it best to note this here rather than modify the build page itself for now - [[User:Neonin|Neonin]] 06:44, 1 July 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:it would work if he took the battle sorcerer variant. but, well, he didn't mention that. --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 01:58, 11 April 2009 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==Possible Modifications==<br />
No mention is made of the fact that Spellsword only increases spells and caster level every other level. If you want to increase your caster level, taking Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard) from Complete Arcane will add another 4 onto it.<br />
<br />
I'll be looking at modifying this in the future as I was about to start work on a similar build - [[User:Neonin|Neonin]] 06:49, 1 July 2008 (MDT)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Ultimate_Area_Attacker_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=332479Ultimate Area Attacker (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-03-08T09:41:40Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Hijax<br />
|date_created=12:45, 7 March 2009 (MST)<br />
|status=Not fully optimized<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
This is my version of the ultimate way to MELEE attack as big an area as possible.<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
<br />
Miniatures handbook(war hulk), complete champion (spirit lion totem), savage species (half-ogre), lords of madness (inhuman reach), heroes of horror (deformity tall), UA(flaw), sword and fist (Knock down)<br />
<br />
== Game Rule Components ==<br />
<br />
=== Spells, Powers, Soulmelds, Stances, etc... ===<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
The best spiked chain you can get. Should have the speed special ability if possible.<br />
Find 2 wizards; one 1st level and one 9th. have the 1st level cast ''enlarge person'' on you, and have the other ''permanency'' it. that should cost you 2950 gp (if i did the math right).<br />
<br />
=== Progression ===<br />
<br />
'''Starting Ability Scores (Before Racial Adjustments):''' with standard point-buy: Str 16 Con 13 Dex 12 Wis 10 Cha 10 Int 10<br />
<br />
'''Race (Templates):'''<br />
Half-ogre<br />
<br />
''Starting Racial Traits:''<br />
Large size, +6 str, -2 dex, +2 con, -2 int -2 cha.<br />
<br />
'''starting ability scores(after racial adjustments)'''<br />
str 22, con 15, dex 10, cha 8, int 8, wis 10.<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! rowspan="2" | ECL<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Feats<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class<br/>Features<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 1st || Half-ogre LA || + || + || + || + || N/A || N/A || N/A<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 2nd || Spirit Lion Barbarian 1 || +1 || +2 || +0 || +0 || Monkey Grip, improved trip || Pounce, iliteracy, rage || Flaw: Shaky (-2 to ranged attacks)<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 3rd || SLB 1/ fighter 1 || +2 || +4 || +0 || +0 || Weapon profiency(spiked chain) || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 4th || SLB 1/fighter 2 || +3 || +5 || +0 || +0 || knock-down, aberrant blooded || ||<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 5th || SLB 1/fighter 3 || +4 || +5 || +1 || +1 || Power attack || || ability increase: con (now 16)<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 6th || SLB 1/fighter 4 || +5 || +5 || +1 || +1 || Cleave || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 7th || SLB 1/fighter 5 || +6/1 || +6 || +2 || +2 || great cleave, inhuman reach || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 8th || SLB 1/fighter 5/ war hulk 1 || +6/1 || +8 || +2 || +2 || || no time to think || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 9th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 2 || +6/1 || +9 || +2 || +2 || || Great swing || +2 str, abilty increase: str (now 25)<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 10th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 3 || +6/1 || +9 || +3 || +3 || Willing deformity || mighty rock throwing || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 11th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 4 || +6/1 || +10 || +3 || +3 || || Mighty swing || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 12th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 5 || +6/1 || +10 || +3 || +3 || || || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 13th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 6 || +6/1 || +11 || +4 || +4 || deformity (tall) || sweeping boulder || +2 str, ability increase: str (now 34)<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 14th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 7 || +6/1 || +11 || +4 || +4 || || || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 15th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 8 || +6/1 || +12 || +4 || +4 || leap attack || massive sweeping boulder, toughness || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 16th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 9 || +6/1 || +12 || +5 || +5 || || toughness || +2 str <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 17th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 10 || +6/1 || +13 || +5 || +5 || || toughness, massive swing || +2 str, ability increase: str (now 43)<br />
<br />
|}<br />
<br />
=== Other Components ===<br />
<br />
<br />
== Highlights ==<br />
<br />
this build have one of the most surpreme awesome reaches ever. We wield a Gargantuan weapon (huge size+ monkey grip), for a 20ft reach. willing deformity and inhuman reach stack, with this, for a pretty awesome reach of 30ft. this is doubled by the fact that we're wielding a reach weapon, granting us a mighty 60ft reach. ALL these squares can be hit by our full attack, due to massive swing. Our total strength is 43, granting a modifier of 16. this means A: we can probably power attack our whole BAB away, and B: we dead a good deal of damage. because the spiked chain is two-handed(1½ str and 2:1 power attack bonus on damage), this means everyone inside our reach is targeted by two attacks, both at +16 to hit. they both deal 4d6+24 damage, 1 of them with +12 damage on top of this, and the other with +2. this is on average 50 damage on attack one, and 40 on attack two. if just one enemy drops we can cleave at our highest base attack bonus, for those 50 damage on average. if the target of this attack drops, we can cleave AGAIN. we can do all this on the charge, because of the handy pounce, and if we leap at them (leap attack), average damage increases to 56 and 42 on the 2 attacks. if you have speed on your weapon, thats 56+56+42=154 damage to every single creature inside your (massive) reach. thanks to knock-down you can trip anybody who take 10 or more damage (should include most anyone).<br />
<br />
== Munchkin-Size Me ==<br />
<br />
Take levels of hulking hurler to use colossal+ thrown weapons, which affect 4 squares in line.<br />
take 1 more level of fighter for improved bull rush and shock trooper. thi will enable you to assign the power attack penalty to your armor class, limited only by your HIGHEST BAB. this means that both attacks get a better chance to hit, and that the second attack now deal just as much damage as the first. take another flaw to get the feat battle jump (unapproachable east), and total leap jump attack your enemy for a good deal op pwr atk dmg.<br />
== Side Notes ==<br />
<br />
if i counted right, you threaten 620 squares. this means you could(technically) kill 620 weak small/medium creatures (like kobolds or goblins) PER ROUND.<br />
<br />
=== Limitations ===<br />
<br />
Pretty weak against single enemies(though he can easily be modified to be a tripper). also have a totally dumb will save<br />
<br />
=== DM Counters ===<br />
<br />
One single, tough, quadruped, big, strong, enemy could easily take him down, even if he were tripper modified. as could a well placed dominate person.<br />
<br />
=== Miscellaneous ===<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Optimized Character Builds|Optimized Character Builds]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Optimized Character Build]]<br />
[[Category:WotC Rules Only]]</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Ultimate_Area_Attacker_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=332285Ultimate Area Attacker (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-03-07T19:51:08Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Hijax<br />
|date_created=12:45, 7 March 2009 (MST)<br />
|status=Not fully optimized<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
This is my version of the ultimate way to MELEE attack as big an area as possible.<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
<br />
Miniatures handbook(war hulk), complete champion (spirit lion totem), savage species (half-ogre), lords of madness (inhuman reach), heroes of horror (deformity tall).<br />
<br />
== Game Rule Components ==<br />
<br />
=== Spells, Powers, Soulmelds, Stances, etc... ===<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
The best spiked chain you can get. Should have the speed special ability if possible.<br />
Find 2 wizards; one 1st level and one 9th. have the 1st level cast ''enlarge person'' on you, and have the other ''permanency'' it. that should cost you 2950 gp (if i did the math right).<br />
<br />
=== Progression ===<br />
<br />
'''Starting Ability Scores (Before Racial Adjustments):''' with standard point-buy: Str 16 Con 13 Dex 12 Wis 10 Cha 10 Int 10<br />
<br />
'''Race (Templates):'''<br />
Half-ogre<br />
<br />
''Starting Racial Traits:''<br />
Large size, +6 str, -2 dex, +2 con, -2 int -2 cha.<br />
<br />
'''starting ability scores(after racial adjustments)'''<br />
str 22, con 15, dex 10, cha 8, int 8, wis 10.<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! rowspan="2" | ECL<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Feats<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class<br/>Features<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 1st || Half-ogre LA || + || + || + || + || N/A || N/A || N/A<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 2nd || Spirit Lion Barbarian 1 || +1 || +2 || +0 || +0 || Monkey Grip || Pounce, iliteracy, rage ||<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 3rd || SLB 1/ fighter 1 || +2 || +4 || +0 || +0 || Weapon profiency(spiked chain) || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 4th || SLB 1/fighter 2 || +3 || +5 || +0 || +0 || Improved Trip, aberrant blooded || ||<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 5th || SLB 1/fighter 3 || +4 || +5 || +1 || +1 || Power attack || || ability increase: con (now 16)<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 6th || SLB 1/fighter 4 || +5 || +5 || +1 || +1 || Cleave || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 7th || SLB 1/fighter 5 || +6/1 || +6 || +2 || +2 || great cleave, inhuman reach || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 8th || SLB 1/fighter 5/ war hulk 1 || +6/1 || +8 || +2 || +2 || || no time to think || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 9th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 2 || +6/1 || +9 || +2 || +2 || || Great swing || +2 str, abilty increase: str (now 25)<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 10th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 3 || +6/1 || +9 || +3 || +3 || Willing deformity || mighty rock throwing || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 11th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 4 || +6/1 || +10 || +3 || +3 || || Mighty swing || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 12th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 5 || +6/1 || +10 || +3 || +3 || || || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 13th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 6 || +6/1 || +11 || +4 || +4 || deformity (tall) || sweeping boulder || +2 str, ability increase: str (now 34)<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 14th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 7 || +6/1 || +11 || +4 || +4 || || || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 15th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 8 || +6/1 || +12 || +4 || +4 || leap attack || massive sweeping boulder, toughness || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 16th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 9 || +6/1 || +12 || +5 || +5 || || toughness || +2 str <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 17th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 10 || +6/1 || +13 || +5 || +5 || || toughness, massive swing || +2 str, ability increase: str (now 43)<br />
<br />
|}<br />
<br />
=== Other Components ===<br />
<br />
<br />
== Highlights ==<br />
<br />
this build have one of the most surpreme awesome reaches ever. We wield a Gargantuan weapon (huge size+ monkey grip), for a 20ft reach. willing deformity and inhuman reach stack, with this, for a pretty awesome reach of 30ft. this is doubled by the fact that we're wielding a reach weapon, granting us a mighty 60ft reach. ALL these squares can be hit by our full attack, due to massive swing. Our total strength is 43, granting a modifier of 16. this means A: we can probably power attack our whole BAB away, and B: we dead a good deal of damage. because the spiked chain is two-handed(1½ str and 2:1 power attack bonus on damage), this means everyone inside our reach is targeted by two attacks, both at +16 to hit. they both deal 4d6+24 damage, 1 of them with +12 damage on top of this, and the other with +2. this is on average 50 damage on attack one, and 40 on attack two. if just one enemy drops we can cleave at our highest base attack bonus, for those 50 damage on average. if the target of this attack drops, we can cleave AGAIN. we can do all this on the charge, because of the handy pounce, and if we leap at them (leap attack), average damage increases to 56 and 42 on the 2 attacks.<br />
<br />
== Munchkin-Size Me ==<br />
<br />
Take levels of hulking hurler to use colossal+ thrown weapons, which affect 4 squares in line.<br />
take 1 more level of fighter for improved bull rush and shock trooper. thi will enable you to assign the power attack penalty to your armor class, limited only by your HIGHEST BAB. this means that both attacks get a better chance to hit, and that the second attack now deal just as much damage as the first<br />
<br />
== Side Notes ==<br />
<br />
if i counted right, you threaten 620 squares. this means you could(technically) kill 620 weak small/medium creatures (like kobolds or goblins) PER ROUND.<br />
<br />
=== Limitations ===<br />
<br />
Pretty weak against single enemies(though he can easily be modified to be a tripper). also have a totally dumb will save<br />
<br />
=== DM Counters ===<br />
<br />
One single, tough, quadruped, big, strong, enemy could easily take him down, even if he were tripper modified. as could a well placed dominate person.<br />
<br />
=== Miscellaneous ===<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Optimized Character Builds|Optimized Character Builds]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Optimized Character Build]]<br />
[[Category:WotC Rules Only]]</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Ultimate_Area_Attacker_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=332282Ultimate Area Attacker (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-03-07T19:45:54Z<p>Hijax: New page: {{author |author_name=Hijax |date_created=~~~~~ |status=Not fully optimized }} == Introduction == This is my version of the ultimate way to MELEE attack as big an are as possible. == Ref...</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Hijax<br />
|date_created=12:45, 7 March 2009 (MST)<br />
|status=Not fully optimized<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
This is my version of the ultimate way to MELEE attack as big an are as possible.<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
<br />
Miniatures handbook(war hulk), complete champion (spirit lion totem), savage species (half-ogre), lords of madness (inhuman reach), heroes of horror (deformity tall).<br />
<br />
== Game Rule Components ==<br />
<br />
=== Spells, Powers, Soulmelds, Stances, etc... ===<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
The best spiked chain you can get. Should have the speed special ability if possible.<br />
Find 2 wizards; one 1st level and one 9th. have the 1st level cast ''enlarge person'' on you, and have the other ''permanency'' it. that should cost you 2950 gp (if i did the math right).<br />
<br />
=== Progression ===<br />
<br />
'''Starting Ability Scores (Before Racial Adjustments):''' with standard point-buy: Str 16 Con 13 Dex 12 Wis 10 Cha 10 Int 10<br />
<br />
'''Race (Templates):'''<br />
Half-ogre<br />
<br />
''Starting Racial Traits:''<br />
Large size, +6 str, -2 dex, +2 con, -2 int -2 cha.<br />
<br />
'''starting ability scores(after racial adjustments)'''<br />
str 22, con 15, dex 10, cha 8, int 8, wis 10.<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! rowspan="2" | ECL<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Feats<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class<br/>Features<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 1st || Half-ogre LA || + || + || + || + || N/A || N/A || N/A<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 2nd || Spirit Lion Barbarian 1 || +1 || +2 || +0 || +0 || Monkey Grip || Pounce, iliteracy, rage ||<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 3rd || SLB 1/ fighter 1 || +2 || +4 || +0 || +0 || Weapon profiency(spiked chain) || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 4th || SLB 1/fighter 2 || +3 || +5 || +0 || +0 || Improved Trip, aberrant blooded || ||<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 5th || SLB 1/fighter 3 || +4 || +5 || +1 || +1 || Power attack || || ability increase: con (now 16)<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 6th || SLB 1/fighter 4 || +5 || +5 || +1 || +1 || Cleave || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 7th || SLB 1/fighter 5 || +6/1 || +6 || +2 || +2 || great cleave, inhuman reach || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 8th || SLB 1/fighter 5/ war hulk 1 || +6/1 || +8 || +2 || +2 || || no time to think || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 9th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 2 || +6/1 || +9 || +2 || +2 || || Great swing || +2 str, abilty increase: str (now 25)<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 10th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 3 || +6/1 || +9 || +3 || +3 || Willing deformity || mighty rock throwing || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 11th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 4 || +6/1 || +10 || +3 || +3 || || Mighty swing || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 12th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 5 || +6/1 || +10 || +3 || +3 || || || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 13th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 6 || +6/1 || +11 || +4 || +4 || deformity (tall) || sweeping boulder || +2 str, ability increase: str (now 34)<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 14th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 7 || +6/1 || +11 || +4 || +4 || || || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 15th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 8 || +6/1 || +12 || +4 || +4 || leap attack || massive sweeping boulder, toughness || +2 str<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 16th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 9 || +6/1 || +12 || +5 || +5 || || toughness || +2 str <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 17th || SLB 1/fighter 5/war hulk 10 || +6/1 || +13 || +5 || +5 || || toughness, massive swing || +2 str, ability increase: str (now 43)<br />
<br />
|}<br />
<br />
=== Other Components ===<br />
<br />
<br />
== Highlights ==<br />
<br />
this build have one of the most surpreme awesome reaches ever. We wield a Gargantuan weapon (huge size+ monkey grip), for a 20ft reach. willing deformity and inhuman reach stack, with this, for a pretty awesome reach of 30ft. this is doubled by the fact that we're wielding a reach weapon, granting us a mighty 60ft reach. ALL these squares can be hit by our full attack, due to massive swing. Our total strength is 43, granting a modifier of 16. this means A: we can probably power attack our whole BAB away, and B: we dead a good deal of damage. because the spiked chain is two-handed(1½ str and 2:1 power attack bonus on damage), this means everyone inside our reach is targeted by two attacks, both at +16 to hit. they both deal 4d6+24 damage, 1 of them with +12 damage on top of this, and the other with +2. this is on average 50 damage on attack one, and 40 on attack two. if just one enemy drops we can cleave at our highest base attack bonus, for those 50 damage on average. if the target of this attack drops, we can cleave AGAIN. we can do all this on the charge, because of the handy pounce, and if we leap at them (leap attack), average damage increases to 56 and 42 on the 2 attacks<br />
<br />
== Munchkin-Size Me ==<br />
<br />
Take levels of hulking hurler to use colossal+ thrown weapons, which affect 4 squares in line.<br />
take 1 more level of fighter for improved bull rush and shock trooper. thi will enable you to assign the power attack penalty to your armor class, limited only by your HIGHEST BAB. this means that both attacks get a better chance to hit, and that the second attack now deal just as much damage as the first<br />
<br />
== Side Notes ==<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
=== Limitations ===<br />
<br />
Pretty weak against single enemies(though he can easily be modified to be a tripper). also have a totally dumb will save<br />
<br />
=== DM Counters ===<br />
<br />
One single, tough, quadruped, big, strong, enemy could easily take him down, even if he were tripper modified. as could a well placed dominate person.<br />
<br />
=== Miscellaneous ===<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Optimized Character Builds|Optimized Character Builds]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Optimized Character Build]]<br />
[[Category:WotC Rules Only]]</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Berserker_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=329334Talk:Berserker (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-27T14:47:10Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Not SRD.... ==<br />
<br />
One, only the Player's Handbook items are SRD here. That's the only real problem.<br />
<br />
Two, since this doesn't seem to be a 20-level build, might I suggest the half-ogre from Savage Species, which gives +6 Str and +2 Con, as well as Large size?--[[User:70.157.61.200|70.157.61.200]] 21:36, 5 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Berserker_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=329333Talk:Berserker (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-27T14:46:42Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Not SRD.... ==<br />
<br />
One, only the Player's Handbook items are SRD here. That's the only real problem.<br />
<br />
Two, since this doesn't seem to be a 20-level build, might I suggest the half-ogre from Savage Species, which gives +6 Str and +2 Con, as well as Large size?--[[User:70.157.61.200|70.157.61.200]] 21:36, 5 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:id rather go anthropomorphic baleen whale. or, if you wanna rage, go anthropomorphic wolverine. --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:46, 27 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Berserker_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=329332Talk:Berserker (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-27T14:45:33Z<p>Hijax: /* Not SRD.... */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Not SRD.... ==<br />
<br />
One, only the Player's Handbook items are SRD here. That's the only real problem.<br />
<br />
Two, since this doesn't seem to be a 20-level build, might I suggest the half-ogre from Savage Species, which gives +6 Str and +2 Con, as well as Large size?--[[User:70.157.61.200|70.157.61.200]] 21:36, 5 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:id rather go anthropomorphic baleen whale. or, if you wanna rage, go anthropomorphic wolverine.</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Inhuman_AoO-er_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=328978Talk:Inhuman AoO-er (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-26T13:59:38Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Beat Me to It ==<br />
<br />
I was going to put together a build similar to this, but since you've already done it, here's some more additions: Deformity (Skin) and its prereq, Willing Deformity, both in ''Heroes of Horror''. Deformity (Skin) adds another 5 feet to your reach, allowing the character with Inhuman Reach to attack everything within 30 feet. There's also the psionic power ''extend reach'' in the ''Complete Psionic'' that increases the weapon's reach by 5 feet. Also, I'd recommend trying to fit Spring Attack and Whirlwind Attack into the progression. Being able to attack every creature within 30 feet (35 with ''extend reach'') at your full BAB is nothing to sneeze at. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 21:56, 5 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:That'd be Deformity (Tall); Deformity (Skin) gives you +1 Natural Armor. Deformity (Tall) gives you reach as a Large creature but imposes a -1 penalty to AC and a -2 on Hide checks. Whirlwind Attack would be lovely, but there's just too . . . many . . . feats . . . as it is, I could just barely fit all the feats in while still getting a 9th level maneuver. Anything more would likely require more Fighter levels than Crusader levels. <br />
:A build where I got *some* of the ideas for this from used Willing Deformity and Deformity (Tall), but I dislike them because they're Vile feats and require you to be evil. Aberrant feats make you weird, but they don't actually make you ''evil'' evil. --[[User:Son of Urza|Son of Urza]] 22:35, 5 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Ah, yes, Deformity (Tall). As far as the alignment is concerned, it's good to remember optimizations are not just for players, they're for DMs, too. A human [[psychic warrior]] 5/[[fighter]] 1 with an augmented reach of 45 feat (using ''[[expansion]]'' and ''extend reach''), makes for an interesting BBEG. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:05, 13 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Forgot that ''[[expansion]]'' can be augmented to increase your size by two categories. So imagine a human human [[psychic warrior]] 7 with an augmented reach of 55 feet (15' natural [[Huge]] + 5' Inhuman Reach + 5' Deformity (Tall) &times;2 [[spiked chain]] + 5' ''extend reach''). With the feats Dash (''Complete Warrior'') and [[Speed of Thought]], some light armor of [[quickness]], and a level of [[barbarian]], your land speed is 60 feet. With the power ''[[hustle]]'' you can perform a full attack and move action. You're melee opponents will have to [[charge]] you just to be able to make a single attack against you. A ''[[haste]]'' spell becomes your best friend. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 17:31, 1 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
I'd change some feats. First of all, I don't see the necessity for both Karmic Strike and Robilars Gambit. They are too similar. <br />
<br />
Also, instead of Die Hard, I'd take Improved Toughness. Think about it: Is it better to be stable at -5 or to be at 10 hp in the positive? <br />
:Diehard also requires Endurance<br />
<br />
Weapon Finesse? Weapon Finesse is for Rogues and Swashbucklers. You still need strength for damage, especially since the spiked chain is two-handed. So I'd rather keep my strength score up than relying entirely on Dex. I also don't know how you ever want to trip without a decent strength score.<br />
<br />
Instead, take something that improves your chance to hit or your damage on the AOOs, like WP Focus and WP Spec (Spiked Chain) or Power Attack. Or, just get rid of the above feats and go for more Crusader levels. No real optimum build should have more than 4 fighter levels. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:12, 6 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Die Hard's a bonus feat from Crusader. Can't change it. Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are . . . horrible. And the reason I have Weapon Finesse is simple: Combat Reflexes. With the number of AoO's this guy can make others provoke, he's gonna need a LOT of them per turn, thus Combat Reflexes and a hefty Dex. Weapon Finesse is essentially a fringe benefit of that large Dex score. Also, notice that nowhere here did I say to completely neglect Strength- you could put another 16 in Strength with a +4 tome and a +6 item and have a total of 26, for a +8 modifier. <br />
<br />
:And for something like this, potions of Enlarge Person or having the friendly party wizard cast Enlarge Person on you is pretty much elementary. Yay for 30' reach! --[[User:Son of Urza|Son of Urza]] 12:02, 6 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Of course, but a passage on useful ways to increase your size is still missing, without that the build is not complete.<br />
::As for the Dex score, there is a maximum of how many AOOs you can usefully make per turn. Even if every action your enemies make provokes an AOO, there is only so many enemies you'll normally have in your reach and only so many actions they'll take. In the worst case the party faces one big tough enemy, which might move, attack, be tripped and try to stand up, so Dex 16 would be enough. Even a 5 foot step and a full attack against you would provoke 5 AOOs at best. If you have more enemies, they'll probably be weaker, allowing you to take them out with one or two attacks each (assuming you deal enough damage).<br />
::The other thing you have to keep in mind is that your effectiveness is not measured in number of attacks per round, but <br />
:::number of attacks X percentage of attacks that hit X damage dealt per attack<br />
::So getting the 11th attack is just as effective as increasing damage by 10%<br />
<br />
::At the moment, I play a build based on the same idea: Swashbuckler / Artificer with Spiked Chain and Combat Reflexes. His Dex is only 18, so he doesn't get so many AOOs, and he doesn't have any of the Reach boosters or AOO special feats (yet, he's only 3rd level each), but if he gets an AOO the damage output is amazing:<br />
::2d4 spiked chain +1 (Str 13) +4 (Int 18) +2d6+2 Bane (Personal Weapon Enhancement Infusion) = 2d4 +2d6 +7<br />
::If necessary, he can use Enlarge Person (Scroll or the Spell Storing Infusion) for: large size, 10 ft. Reach (20 ft. with Chain), +2 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity, -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC. Note that he can do this without the party wizard.<br />
::In two levels, he can enchant his own weapon and armor. The only reason he has no magic weapon yet is that it is cheaper for him to make his own woundrous items, such as gloves of dexterity.<br />
::Compare that to your build, that hardly does more than 2d4 damage per AOO. You can go down the Weapon Finesse Route, but then it would be better to have Swashbuckler (for Int bonus to damage) and Artificer levels. If you go Fighter, increase strength. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 22:50, 6 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::one person may easily cause more than 5 AoOs. he provokes an aoo for leaving each of yout threatened squares, not just one. Imagine an adult red dragon. even if it doesn't fly, it provokes up to 17 AoOs in a charge (80 ft of movement, attacking once). plus, you're wrong about 10% damage increase is as good as 11th attack. unless you count critical hits as part of damage (ie 10% extra damage includes 10% extra crit chance). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:55, 26 February 2009 (MST)<br />
== Errors ==<br />
<br />
''Thanks to Improved Trip, I can trip and follow up with another attack on any AoO. Getting up from prone because they were tripped provokes ANOTHER attack of opportunity, which allows me to send them right back down again!''<br />
<br />
Everything here is wrong.<br />
*You cannot use Improved Trip with AoO. The RAW reads ''as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt'' which means you must use an '''attack''' not just an AoO.<br />
*When someone is prone, they provoke an AoO when they '''attempt''' to get up (with +4 melee bonus), not '''after''' they get up. You cannot use trip as an AoO in response to someone getting up (they are still prone).<br />
<br />
Note that if I was a DM I'd counter with Thief-Acrobats (Kip-Up, Fast Tumble and disarm) and Druids (who can fly and blast you to pulp). Just keep that in mind if you want to play this. Still better than GD's attempt at a tripper though. --[[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]] 21:01, 8 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:As for point one: An attack of opportunity is an attack. I mean, it is even ''called'' an attack. Or, as the SRD puts it "An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack". Of course you can trip with it, of course Improved Trip applies.<br />
:Point 2: Quote SRD: "Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity." You're right, you get the AOO when somebody tries to get up, not after the attempt.<br />
:The question is whether a successful attack of opportunity keeps someone from getting up. I remember that the GM of my current campaign rules that a successful AOO screws your current action, i.e. stops your movement etc. But I'm struggling to find a the official rule for it, so it could be a houseruled interpretation. Mhh.<br />
:In any case there is nothing preventing you from tripping a character that is prone and trying to get up. Being prone does not make you immune to tripping. <br />
:Point 3: You don't really need thief acrobats to counter this build. A good archer might do the trick, especially a sniper that gets the character flat-footed, where he can't use his great Dex bonus, especially a beguiler who could cast a spell against the flat-footed PC. A third way would be to keep him busy with summoned creatures, especially big ones with a high strength, or use swarms. Another idea would be a cloak of displacement, which gives all of his AOOs a 50% fail chance. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 23:32, 8 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Yep, you were right about 1, I take that back. As for point 2, I'm suspicious of that. Sure you lose a spell if you fail a concentration check, but that's in the description of concentration, not anywhere else. I'll email WotC to see what they say. As for point 3, its a universal problem of melee builds in general *sigh* --[[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]] 20:17, 11 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
::'''Update:''' WotC sent me this<br />
:::''Thanks for writing. You cannot trip a prone target. So your attack of opportunity while he is standing up could not be trip attack. You still can use your AoO, just not as a trip.''<br />
::My interpretation of this is that attempting to trip a prone opponent cannot be attempted in the first place. Regards. --[[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]] 19:16, 13 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Out of curiosity, even if it were possible to trip a prone enemy within the context of the rules, why would you even attempt it? He's already prone. So you trip him, and he's what? More prone? You already get an AoO, so there's no point risking getting counter-tripped. The only possible application for this I could see is if the person was prone by the edge of a cliff or something and you wanted to trip him (again) so that he fell off the cliff. And to be honest, this might be better suited with some sort of improvised bull rush...--[[User:WithoutHisFoot|WithoutHisFoot]] 24:32, 27 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::The build has [[improved trip]] which allows an free attack against a target you trip. Thus, if you were able to trip a second time, you would also get a second free attack; so, "tripping" a fallen foe (were if possible) would allow for an extra attack. &mdash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 19:58, 6 September 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Common Misconception #3: Attacks of opportunity happen after the actions that trigger them.<br />
:::::Resolve an attack of opportunity before you resolve the action that triggered it, not after. Sometimes, the attack of opportunity will prevent the triggering action (such as when the attack of opportunity proves lethal to a moving character). If someone tries something that provokes an attack of opportunity, the attack of opportunity happens first. Attacks of opportunity you make in response to a foe's spellcasting or use of a spell-like ability are an exception (see the Making an Attack of Opportunity section), as is moving into a space another creature occupies.(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041026a)<br />
<br />
:::::straight off the wotc site, so, when someone tries to stand up, the provoke AoO, you hit them, they stand up.<br />
:::::You make a trip attack in lieu of a melee attack.You can trip using the attack action or using the full attack action. >You also can make a trip attack as an attack of opportunity.< so the AoA can be a trip(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060307a)<br />
<br />
:::::I am sorry if my formating sucks, i am still learning, but this is what i came up with for a couple of the problems posed here.[[User:Ganre|Ganre]] 17:22, 30 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Feat Options ==<br />
<br />
One thing about this build is that it be varied greatly just with the available feats alone:<br />
<br />
*[[Combat Reflexes]]<br />
*Defensive Sweep<br />
*Deformity (Tall): Willing Deformity<br />
*Deft Opportunist<br />
*[[Exotic Weapon Proficiency]] ([[spiked chain]])<br />
*[[Hold the Line]]<br />
*[[Improved Trip]]: [[Combat Expertise]]<br />
*Inhuman Reach: Aberration Blood<br />
*[[Great Cleave]]: [[Power Attack]], [[Cleave]]<br />
*[[Greater Weapon Specialization]] ([[spiked chain]]): [[Weapon Focus]], [[Weapon Specialization]], [[Greater Weapon Focus]]<br />
*Karmic Strike<br />
*[[Knock-Down]]<br />
*Melee Weapon Mastery (piercing): [[Weapon Focus]], [[Weapon Specialization]]<br />
*Robilar's Gambit<br />
*[[Stand Still]]<br />
*[[Whirlwind Attack]]: [[Dodge]], [[Mobility]], [[Spring Attack]], [[Combat Expertise]]<br />
*Prone Attack (in case you get tripped and don't feel like dropping your weapon): [[Lightning Reflexes]]<br />
Total (including prereqs): 29 feat options. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:38, 13 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I might add Martial Study and Martial Stance to add Shadow Hand maneuvers to your repertoire, which'll then let you take Shadow Blade. Add Dex to damage IN ADDITION TO Strength!--[[User:Ddragon Necrophades|Ddragon Necrophades]] 17:13, 11 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Inhuman_AoO-er_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=328977Talk:Inhuman AoO-er (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-26T13:55:39Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Beat Me to It ==<br />
<br />
I was going to put together a build similar to this, but since you've already done it, here's some more additions: Deformity (Skin) and its prereq, Willing Deformity, both in ''Heroes of Horror''. Deformity (Skin) adds another 5 feet to your reach, allowing the character with Inhuman Reach to attack everything within 30 feet. There's also the psionic power ''extend reach'' in the ''Complete Psionic'' that increases the weapon's reach by 5 feet. Also, I'd recommend trying to fit Spring Attack and Whirlwind Attack into the progression. Being able to attack every creature within 30 feet (35 with ''extend reach'') at your full BAB is nothing to sneeze at. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 21:56, 5 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:That'd be Deformity (Tall); Deformity (Skin) gives you +1 Natural Armor. Deformity (Tall) gives you reach as a Large creature but imposes a -1 penalty to AC and a -2 on Hide checks. Whirlwind Attack would be lovely, but there's just too . . . many . . . feats . . . as it is, I could just barely fit all the feats in while still getting a 9th level maneuver. Anything more would likely require more Fighter levels than Crusader levels. <br />
:A build where I got *some* of the ideas for this from used Willing Deformity and Deformity (Tall), but I dislike them because they're Vile feats and require you to be evil. Aberrant feats make you weird, but they don't actually make you ''evil'' evil. --[[User:Son of Urza|Son of Urza]] 22:35, 5 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Ah, yes, Deformity (Tall). As far as the alignment is concerned, it's good to remember optimizations are not just for players, they're for DMs, too. A human [[psychic warrior]] 5/[[fighter]] 1 with an augmented reach of 45 feat (using ''[[expansion]]'' and ''extend reach''), makes for an interesting BBEG. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:05, 13 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Forgot that ''[[expansion]]'' can be augmented to increase your size by two categories. So imagine a human human [[psychic warrior]] 7 with an augmented reach of 55 feet (15' natural [[Huge]] + 5' Inhuman Reach + 5' Deformity (Tall) &times;2 [[spiked chain]] + 5' ''extend reach''). With the feats Dash (''Complete Warrior'') and [[Speed of Thought]], some light armor of [[quickness]], and a level of [[barbarian]], your land speed is 60 feet. With the power ''[[hustle]]'' you can perform a full attack and move action. You're melee opponents will have to [[charge]] you just to be able to make a single attack against you. A ''[[haste]]'' spell becomes your best friend. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 17:31, 1 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
I'd change some feats. First of all, I don't see the necessity for both Karmic Strike and Robilars Gambit. They are too similar. <br />
<br />
Also, instead of Die Hard, I'd take Improved Toughness. Think about it: Is it better to be stable at -5 or to be at 10 hp in the positive? <br />
:Diehard also requires Endurance<br />
<br />
Weapon Finesse? Weapon Finesse is for Rogues and Swashbucklers. You still need strength for damage, especially since the spiked chain is two-handed. So I'd rather keep my strength score up than relying entirely on Dex. I also don't know how you ever want to trip without a decent strength score.<br />
<br />
Instead, take something that improves your chance to hit or your damage on the AOOs, like WP Focus and WP Spec (Spiked Chain) or Power Attack. Or, just get rid of the above feats and go for more Crusader levels. No real optimum build should have more than 4 fighter levels. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:12, 6 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Die Hard's a bonus feat from Crusader. Can't change it. Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are . . . horrible. And the reason I have Weapon Finesse is simple: Combat Reflexes. With the number of AoO's this guy can make others provoke, he's gonna need a LOT of them per turn, thus Combat Reflexes and a hefty Dex. Weapon Finesse is essentially a fringe benefit of that large Dex score. Also, notice that nowhere here did I say to completely neglect Strength- you could put another 16 in Strength with a +4 tome and a +6 item and have a total of 26, for a +8 modifier. <br />
<br />
:And for something like this, potions of Enlarge Person or having the friendly party wizard cast Enlarge Person on you is pretty much elementary. Yay for 30' reach! --[[User:Son of Urza|Son of Urza]] 12:02, 6 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Of course, but a passage on useful ways to increase your size is still missing, without that the build is not complete.<br />
::As for the Dex score, there is a maximum of how many AOOs you can usefully make per turn. Even if every action your enemies make provokes an AOO, there is only so many enemies you'll normally have in your reach and only so many actions they'll take. In the worst case the party faces one big tough enemy, which might move, attack, be tripped and try to stand up, so Dex 16 would be enough. Even a 5 foot step and a full attack against you would provoke 5 AOOs at best. If you have more enemies, they'll probably be weaker, allowing you to take them out with one or two attacks each (assuming you deal enough damage).<br />
::The other thing you have to keep in mind is that your effectiveness is not measured in number of attacks per round, but <br />
:::number of attacks X percentage of attacks that hit X damage dealt per attack<br />
::So getting the 11th attack is just as effective as increasing damage by 10%<br />
<br />
::At the moment, I play a build based on the same idea: Swashbuckler / Artificer with Spiked Chain and Combat Reflexes. His Dex is only 18, so he doesn't get so many AOOs, and he doesn't have any of the Reach boosters or AOO special feats (yet, he's only 3rd level each), but if he gets an AOO the damage output is amazing:<br />
::2d4 spiked chain +1 (Str 13) +4 (Int 18) +2d6+2 Bane (Personal Weapon Enhancement Infusion) = 2d4 +2d6 +7<br />
::If necessary, he can use Enlarge Person (Scroll or the Spell Storing Infusion) for: large size, 10 ft. Reach (20 ft. with Chain), +2 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity, -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC. Note that he can do this without the party wizard.<br />
::In two levels, he can enchant his own weapon and armor. The only reason he has no magic weapon yet is that it is cheaper for him to make his own woundrous items, such as gloves of dexterity.<br />
::Compare that to your build, that hardly does more than 2d4 damage per AOO. You can go down the Weapon Finesse Route, but then it would be better to have Swashbuckler (for Int bonus to damage) and Artificer levels. If you go Fighter, increase strength. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 22:50, 6 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::one person may easily cause more than 5 AoOs. he provokes an aoo for leaving each of yout threatened squares, not just one. Imagine an adult red dragon. even if it doesn't fly, it provokes up to 17 AoOs in a charge (80 ft of movement, attacking once). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:55, 26 February 2009 (MST)<br />
== Errors ==<br />
<br />
''Thanks to Improved Trip, I can trip and follow up with another attack on any AoO. Getting up from prone because they were tripped provokes ANOTHER attack of opportunity, which allows me to send them right back down again!''<br />
<br />
Everything here is wrong.<br />
*You cannot use Improved Trip with AoO. The RAW reads ''as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt'' which means you must use an '''attack''' not just an AoO.<br />
*When someone is prone, they provoke an AoO when they '''attempt''' to get up (with +4 melee bonus), not '''after''' they get up. You cannot use trip as an AoO in response to someone getting up (they are still prone).<br />
<br />
Note that if I was a DM I'd counter with Thief-Acrobats (Kip-Up, Fast Tumble and disarm) and Druids (who can fly and blast you to pulp). Just keep that in mind if you want to play this. Still better than GD's attempt at a tripper though. --[[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]] 21:01, 8 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:As for point one: An attack of opportunity is an attack. I mean, it is even ''called'' an attack. Or, as the SRD puts it "An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack". Of course you can trip with it, of course Improved Trip applies.<br />
:Point 2: Quote SRD: "Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity." You're right, you get the AOO when somebody tries to get up, not after the attempt.<br />
:The question is whether a successful attack of opportunity keeps someone from getting up. I remember that the GM of my current campaign rules that a successful AOO screws your current action, i.e. stops your movement etc. But I'm struggling to find a the official rule for it, so it could be a houseruled interpretation. Mhh.<br />
:In any case there is nothing preventing you from tripping a character that is prone and trying to get up. Being prone does not make you immune to tripping. <br />
:Point 3: You don't really need thief acrobats to counter this build. A good archer might do the trick, especially a sniper that gets the character flat-footed, where he can't use his great Dex bonus, especially a beguiler who could cast a spell against the flat-footed PC. A third way would be to keep him busy with summoned creatures, especially big ones with a high strength, or use swarms. Another idea would be a cloak of displacement, which gives all of his AOOs a 50% fail chance. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 23:32, 8 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Yep, you were right about 1, I take that back. As for point 2, I'm suspicious of that. Sure you lose a spell if you fail a concentration check, but that's in the description of concentration, not anywhere else. I'll email WotC to see what they say. As for point 3, its a universal problem of melee builds in general *sigh* --[[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]] 20:17, 11 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
::'''Update:''' WotC sent me this<br />
:::''Thanks for writing. You cannot trip a prone target. So your attack of opportunity while he is standing up could not be trip attack. You still can use your AoO, just not as a trip.''<br />
::My interpretation of this is that attempting to trip a prone opponent cannot be attempted in the first place. Regards. --[[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]] 19:16, 13 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Out of curiosity, even if it were possible to trip a prone enemy within the context of the rules, why would you even attempt it? He's already prone. So you trip him, and he's what? More prone? You already get an AoO, so there's no point risking getting counter-tripped. The only possible application for this I could see is if the person was prone by the edge of a cliff or something and you wanted to trip him (again) so that he fell off the cliff. And to be honest, this might be better suited with some sort of improvised bull rush...--[[User:WithoutHisFoot|WithoutHisFoot]] 24:32, 27 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::The build has [[improved trip]] which allows an free attack against a target you trip. Thus, if you were able to trip a second time, you would also get a second free attack; so, "tripping" a fallen foe (were if possible) would allow for an extra attack. &mdash;[[User:EldritchNumen|EldritchNumen]] 19:58, 6 September 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Common Misconception #3: Attacks of opportunity happen after the actions that trigger them.<br />
:::::Resolve an attack of opportunity before you resolve the action that triggered it, not after. Sometimes, the attack of opportunity will prevent the triggering action (such as when the attack of opportunity proves lethal to a moving character). If someone tries something that provokes an attack of opportunity, the attack of opportunity happens first. Attacks of opportunity you make in response to a foe's spellcasting or use of a spell-like ability are an exception (see the Making an Attack of Opportunity section), as is moving into a space another creature occupies.(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041026a)<br />
<br />
:::::straight off the wotc site, so, when someone tries to stand up, the provoke AoO, you hit them, they stand up.<br />
:::::You make a trip attack in lieu of a melee attack.You can trip using the attack action or using the full attack action. >You also can make a trip attack as an attack of opportunity.< so the AoA can be a trip(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060307a)<br />
<br />
:::::I am sorry if my formating sucks, i am still learning, but this is what i came up with for a couple of the problems posed here.[[User:Ganre|Ganre]] 17:22, 30 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Feat Options ==<br />
<br />
One thing about this build is that it be varied greatly just with the available feats alone:<br />
<br />
*[[Combat Reflexes]]<br />
*Defensive Sweep<br />
*Deformity (Tall): Willing Deformity<br />
*Deft Opportunist<br />
*[[Exotic Weapon Proficiency]] ([[spiked chain]])<br />
*[[Hold the Line]]<br />
*[[Improved Trip]]: [[Combat Expertise]]<br />
*Inhuman Reach: Aberration Blood<br />
*[[Great Cleave]]: [[Power Attack]], [[Cleave]]<br />
*[[Greater Weapon Specialization]] ([[spiked chain]]): [[Weapon Focus]], [[Weapon Specialization]], [[Greater Weapon Focus]]<br />
*Karmic Strike<br />
*[[Knock-Down]]<br />
*Melee Weapon Mastery (piercing): [[Weapon Focus]], [[Weapon Specialization]]<br />
*Robilar's Gambit<br />
*[[Stand Still]]<br />
*[[Whirlwind Attack]]: [[Dodge]], [[Mobility]], [[Spring Attack]], [[Combat Expertise]]<br />
*Prone Attack (in case you get tripped and don't feel like dropping your weapon): [[Lightning Reflexes]]<br />
Total (including prereqs): 29 feat options. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:38, 13 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I might add Martial Study and Martial Stance to add Shadow Hand maneuvers to your repertoire, which'll then let you take Shadow Blade. Add Dex to damage IN ADDITION TO Strength!--[[User:Ddragon Necrophades|Ddragon Necrophades]] 17:13, 11 September 2008 (MDT)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Discussion:Philosphy_Fans:_Nietzsche_Superman_Template&diff=328967Discussion:Philosphy Fans: Nietzsche Superman Template2009-02-26T12:29:19Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>== How would you make a Nietzche Superman template? ==<br />
<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Summerscythe|Summerscythe]]&nbsp;<small><small>10:55, 24 February 2009 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
Ever since i read Crime and Punishment, i have been fascinated with the concept of the superman. So i'v ebeen thinking about making it into a template for D and D. I'm not sure exactly what to do though, Any suggestions? <br />
<br />
:I would have to think an übermensch would be a new race entirely, given the Nietzsche's analogy of ape : man :: man : übermensch. The other aspects beyond the physical, the freedom from the laws that bind men, that is something that I think would be difficult to replicate with any degree of balance. Take physics, for example: how do you make a being who can ignore the laws physics without breaking the game? -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 11:23, 24 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Summerscythe|Summerscythe]]&nbsp;<small><small>12:24, 24 February 2009 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
I agree with the fact that it may be game-breaking, i was thinking however, of making this a template only for NPCs, maybe for the main villian in the game, whose above the law and above normal men. It would only be a suitable template for PC's if you also gave it to all of the major humanoid fights, for example, if you play a gestalt campaign, the other major villians should all be gestalt. if you understand what i'm saying. but it would be especially helpful push for a final encounter bad guy, dont you think? any other thoughts?<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Lord Dhazriel|Lord Dhazriel]]&nbsp;<small><small>13:15, 24 February 2009 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
Spell-like ability. A mid level wizard or sorcerer can easily unbid himself from the law that bind man. Gravity, Overland Fly. A constant freedom of movement may be the answer to your questions (as well as a flight speed). Too much ability would make the race suck, because of extreme LA. [[SRD:Paragon Creature (Epic Template)|paragon creature]], pretty much the answer.<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Surgo|Surgo]]&nbsp;<small><small>14:17, 24 February 2009 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
NPC-only templates are extremely unsatisfying to read or hear about as a player, and it also seems like quite a cop-out when it comes to balance: "I'm not sure how to make this balanced so it will just be NPC-only!"<br />
<br />
Anyway, I don't see why it has to be extreme or anything. Nietzsche's idea of the 'overman' (better translation than superman) was virtually entirely philosophical and moral. This obviously can have physical effects in D&D-land (just see any Outsider for that), but it doesn't have to be extreme.<br />
<br />
=== [[User:S1Q3T3|S1Q3T3]]&nbsp;<small><small>08:21, 25 February 2009 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
There is an option in D&D for characters who perceive themselves as evolved beyond the constraints of "slave religion" or ethics: evil alignment. Nietzsche's system of thought (to the extent to which it can be called a system) is really a point of view rather than a guidebook to a particular sort of evolved person. <br />
<br />
The paradox of Nietzsche's thought is that in devaluing the rational and the moral, and praising the Dionysian and powerful, he merely substitutes one set of primitive values for another. <br />
<br />
As the "apes" we can't reasonably be expected to know what the "evolved" human would be like or what would be important to him or her, but it seems likely that our concepts of power and success would enthrall him no more than a baboon's red ass impresses us.<br />
<br />
Though I'm not a Buddhist, I think buddhism has a more reasonable take on the "evolved" human, and its practitioners can be understood as trying to become evolved. The Buddha (the story goes) had a fantastic compassion for all living things, which was the only reason he hung around on this plane of existence after he had evolved beyond us -- to help and teach. He didn't seek power, but his understanding of and deep sympathy with the universe gave him, in effect, great power over the physical world; able to travel great distances, perform many miracles, etc.<br />
<br />
In game terms, a Buddha-like figure might be a psion with high levels of Knowledge and Diplomacy. His force of personality and his deep insight into the nature of the universe would allow him to accomplish many things, but he would not be an empire-builder, or a seeker of power and followers.<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Hijax|Hijax]]&nbsp;<small><small>05:29, 26 February 2009 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
though i never read crime and punishment, nor any of Nietzsce's books (though im trying to find out in which book he wrote about übermensch), i like your approch to this S1Q3T3. apes dont define power or succes the same way we do, so its unlikely that the übermensch will either. The übermensch will, in my opinion, probably be a high-level either sorcerer or psion, possibly with a divine rank of 0-1.<br />
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__NOTOC__</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Nonhero-necromancer_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=328532Nonhero-necromancer (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-24T20:47:07Z<p>Hijax: New page: {{author |author_name=hijax |date_created=~~~~~ |status=working on it! }} == Introduction == this is a overall guide to various tricks for the necromancer, much like [[user:sir milo tea...</p>
<hr />
<div><br />
{{author<br />
|author_name=hijax<br />
|date_created=13:47, 24 February 2009 (MST)<br />
|status=working on it!<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
<br />
this is a overall guide to various tricks for the necromancer, much like [[user:sir milo teabag|sir milo teabag's]] [[Hero Bard Baby (DnD Optimized Character Build)|Hero Bard Baby]]. everyone can freely add tricks for necromancers here.<br />
<br />
===ultimate necromancer===<br />
this a trick that will require some houseruling from your DM. it's simply about using the arcane preparation feat from complete arcane to make a dread necromancer qualify for the ultimate magus PrC from complete mage.<br />
==== References ====<br />
heroes of horror, complete arcane, complete mage<br />
<br />
====final progression and highlights====<br />
dread necromancer 8/ultimate magus 1<br />
the dread necromancer have an ability called undead mastery, which basically adds your charisma bonus to your caster level while dtermining maximum crontrolled undead. thats very powerful by itself, and all detailed here: [[Undead Controller (DnD Optimized Character Build)|Undead Controller]]. but add this to the caster level increase of ultimate magus, and thats something. the only problem is ultimate magus rquires us to prepare arcane spells, and dread necromancers are spontanous casters. but there is a work-around. take arcane preparation feat, from complete arcane, and that solves the problem, right? sadly no. ultimate magus specifies that you must prepare from a spellbook, and arcane mastery doesn't say you use a spellbook. but im pretty sure you can make your DM houserule that it works. ultimate magus are still only worth one level, because most of it's power is in the spellcasting level increase for preparation class, and again, that doesn't count dread necromancer.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Optimized Character Builds|Optimized Character Builds]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Optimized Character Build]]<br />
[[Category: Half-Optimization]]</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:3.5e_Optimized_Character_Builds&diff=327242Talk:3.5e Optimized Character Builds2009-02-21T14:10:34Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Half-Optimizations ==<br />
<br />
I believe it would be a good idea to create a seperate branch of this page: Half-Optimizations. This would be any cool tricks that are no doubt useful, but too small to warrant their own Builds. --[[User:Sir Milo Teabag|Sir Milo Teabag]] 17:08, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Added. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:19, 18 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:: it would be nice if this was added to the omptimized character build template. i didnt know how to make one until i mimicked one of them. --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:10, 21 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Class Guides ==<br />
<br />
Wouldn't it also be a good idea to add a section for class guides (like the Artificer's Player's Guide?)? This would open a whole new field for those who know how to play a particular class very well and would like to teach others to do the same. -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 20:36, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Added. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:01, 23 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Indeed, some of the Half-Optimizations might do better under here... --[[User:Sir Milo Teabag|Sir Milo Teabag]] 06:33, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Perhaps. -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 21:55, 24 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::And the [[Wizards' Handbook (DnD Optimized Character Build)|Wizards' Handbook]] is complete, making it the longest article posted in this section. -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 17:05, 25 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Gestalt ==<br />
<br />
Just a question. I have made a gestalt build on another site and wanted to post it here. I just wanted to make sure that gestalt builds were allowed. FYI, the build was for the Magnificint Monsters challenge on Giant In the Playground.--[[User:Ghostie1337|Ghostie1337]] 22:41, 4 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:It certainly should be. Please preface your build with Gestalt or something, though ''':)''' -- [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] 20:09, 15 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::We now actually have a Gestalt Optimization, thanks to [[User:Ganre|Yours Truly]], and i was wondering if they deserved their own category, to separate them from the standard builds. What do the other optimizers/Admins think? --[[User:Ganre|Ganre]] 00:53, 5 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Why not, [[:Category:Gestalt]] it is. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:47, 5 May 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Monk ==<br />
<br />
A small optimisation that isn't enough to give it its own page. Uses "Ultimate Prestige Classes 1", "Complete Warrior", "The Book of Exalted Deeds", the eberron book and the srd. It is gasalt and it has classes as follows... 12 monk/5 fighter/5 war shaper/2 student of the dragon.<br />
<br />
It is linked here.. [http://www.playrpgonline.net/3eprofiler/view.php?id=2790|Uber] --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 07:36, 13 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Removed. --[[User:Sabre070|Sabre070]] 22:10, 2 December 2008 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Discussion:Does_arcane_disciple_count_as_acess_to_domain%3F&diff=326770Discussion:Does arcane disciple count as acess to domain?2009-02-20T14:14:23Z<p>Hijax: New page: == If you have arcane disciple, does you count as having acess to the domain in question == === ~~~&nbsp;<small><small>~~~~~</small></small> === if you take the feat arcane disciple (fro...</p>
<hr />
<div>== If you have arcane disciple, does you count as having acess to the domain in question == <br />
<br />
=== [[User:Hijax|Hijax]]&nbsp;<small><small>07:14, 20 February 2009 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
if you take the feat arcane disciple (from complete divine), do you count as having "acess" to it, for purposes of qualifying for feats or prestige classes?<br />
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__NOTOC__</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322716Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-07T18:02:31Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST<br />
<br />
:::: Because Eiji recognizes the poor practical implementation of psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:10, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::you meaning?(sorry if missed something. im very new on the field of psionics) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:44, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::: Psionics is a good idea. As a concept, I like it; it's well done and it's well thought out. But, how's it's been implemented is not. It's like they spent so much of the time thinking "Hey, this is cool, this is how x should be done and how y should be explained" and then they ran out of time and just churned out some poorly written rules and powers for psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:29, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::why do you think the system is bad? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:33, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::: Was I not clear? Because it's POORLY WRITTEN. It's poorly thought out and, in the end, just ends up lacking; especially when you compare it to Arcane Spellcasting in general. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:37, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::i was thinking more like give me an example --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:39, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: See [[SRD:powers|here]] --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:40, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::i still dont get what it is that you hate so much. you dont like thesystem with power points, you think the powers are not balanced, what is it goddamn that you dont like? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:47, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::: Evidently, you're failing to understand. Also, you're jumping to some ridiculous assumptions. I didn't say I hated it; I said it was poorly implemented. That's what it is; poorly implemented. It may look to you all shiny and new and blahblahblah, but so does shit wrapped in wrapping paper. Overall; it's just BAD. Also, what do you hate; the shift key? --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:51, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
Lol wut? Actually, I'm just no good at psionics. Plus, wanted to put some alientist in there, for the flavor. Either way looks tasty. I'll work on magic-Cthulthu, a psi-Cthulthu would be fine too. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 09:45, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
: ignore the build i posted (figured it was horibly ineffective to take metamind that far. (I mean, you start over with learning higher-level powers) <br />
:Anyway, ill try to make a sample psi-cthulhu build (though it probably won't fit the term 'optimized') --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:33, 6 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
== .. ==<br />
<br />
Hmmm...I could be wrong, but someone did this already. I'll post a link when I find it, but if I remember correctly, it used that illithid PrC from Complete Psionic.-[[User:Risek|FREAKshow]] 08:17, 6 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Name ==<br />
Was this purposely spelled differently than the normal spelling of Cthulhu? &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid blue; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:FireBrick; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 08:41, 6 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:It's one of the many spellings Lord Kthulthu accepts. It's not his fault that your pathetic mortal alphabet only has 26 possible symbols to express the 11 dimensional term of Cthulthlu and all his Cththuklikcthuine glory. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 22:04, 6 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:: And he cuts you. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 02:35, 7 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: . . . A simple "we chose not to use the '''''standard''''' spelling" would have sufficed. &nbsp;<small><span style="border: 1px solid blue; -moz-border-radius:10px">[[User:Hooper|'''<span style="background-color:White; color:FireBrick; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px"> Hooper </span>''']][[User talk:Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:10px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;talk&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue">&nbsp;&nbsp;contribs&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]][[Special:Emailuser/Hooper|<span style="background-color:red; color:blue; -moz-border-radius-bottomright:10px; -moz-border-radius-topright:10px">&nbsp;&nbsp;email&nbsp;&nbsp;</span>]]</span></small> 10:15, 7 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
== mad certainty ==<br />
<br />
are you aware that mad certainty will reduce your wisdom, thus being horribly ineffective for clerics? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 11:02, 7 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Discussion:Is_the_fighter_underpowered%3F&diff=322529Discussion:Is the fighter underpowered?2009-02-06T19:08:29Z<p>Hijax: </p>
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<div>__NOTOC__<br />
== Is the Fighter Underpowered? ==<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]]&nbsp;<small><small>23:02, 29 April 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Hello everyone. I have been wondering whether or not the fighter is underpowered in comparison to other typical base classes.<br />
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=== [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]]&nbsp;<small><small>08:03, 30 April 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
I believe the fighter is underpowered. I made a similar observation at one point, although I can't find that conversation now. When I made up a [[:Image:Class Comparison.ods|class comparison spreadsheet]] (before someone told me about [http://www.community3e.com/dn/class/3.5ClassConstruction.zip CCS]), the fighter came off looking by far the worst, even lower than the bard (although, empirically, I think I'd put the bard lower). I proposed bumping the fighter's HD to d12 and giving them a good reflex save. The higher HP, in particular, makes sense along conceptual grounds.<br />
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=== [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]]&nbsp;<small><small>08:07, 30 April 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
There's been terribly long discussions about this on the WotC board. Many fighter builds were shown that can kill Balors in one round. "Power" is a distraction to the class's issues. <br />
<br />
A few facts:<br />
<br />
* Spellcasters are much stronger than non-spellcasters, especially at the higher levels. The Druid and the Cleric are especially used for their incredibly high raw-power. <br />
* Fighters shares a number of issues with non-spellcasters vis-a-vis casters.<br />
* The optimizers have found large numbers of combos for spellcasters, and this information is easy to find. This raises the general power of casters as most melee does not have the same overly-effective combos. (There are combos, just not as many.)<br />
* Most spellcasters can recover from poor spell selection within a day or completely redesign their powers in a day.<br />
<br />
This means that we can not effectively compare non-spellcasters to spellcasters. That difference huge structural issue in the game.<br />
<br />
Is fighter the weakest of the melee classes? If you play the game as the design recommends, fighters do fine. If you look at the equipment recommendations form the Magic Item Compendium, you find a power curve considerably different than the one often talked about on the boards. Players often prefer "power" level games, which spellcasters can adapt to, but melee (being far more regulated) can not adapt to.<br />
<br />
I've seen only one good assessment of this situation. The game design principal is that a base class should be reasonably optimized for its job out of the box. The fighter starts non-optimized and requires considerable knowledge of the game to correctly make choices. That makes the fighter a poorly designed class. THAT is the fighter issue. <br />
<br />
Power-wise, I am convinced that the class is fine. A sharp operator can pimp out a killer fighter at high levels. The real issues with the class is that the class is very unforgiving if you make the wrong choice; the class is overly dependent on equipment; and other classes only need short chains to get the feats that they need to work, so the need for feats drops off rapidly by levels 9-12.<br />
<br />
That's a rough summary of what I see as legitimate issues with both the game and the fighter. This all traces back to a 4 encounters/day design, and the boosting of the cleric to cover healing. The most effective way to solve this is to completely redesign the game into an encounter-centric design. That takes us into 4E territory.<br />
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=== [[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]]&nbsp;<small><small>16:05, 30 April 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
Thanks for the replies! I guess that I am not going to play a fighter anytime soon.<br />
<br />
I also modified some of the formatting, let me know what looks good for Discussions, or go ahead and modify it.<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]]&nbsp;<small><small>22:21, 30 April 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
The problem I have when people ask "Is X weaker than Y?" is that it suggests "power" is some ultimate measure of performance for a class, especially at high levels. Classes do not exist in a vacuum, they exist in relation to a party. I don't like discussing char. op. because few people would use them in the game (who plays Pun-Pun?). If your talking about ''potential power'' of a class then fine, but hypotheticals and contrafactuals have next no meaning in a real game if the GM just throws 100 black dragons at you in response to your super-combo. <br />
<br />
Anyway, for most players of fighters, it's about qualifying for prestigue classes by getting feats, thus level 20 fighters are next to non-existant in RL.<br />
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=== [[Special:Contributions/75.153.172.237|75.153.172.237]]&nbsp;<small><small>16:07, 1 May 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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I don't think the fighter is underpowered. I agree with what Pwsnafu said - it's all about qualifying for prestige classes. <br />
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=== [[User:Hooper|Hooper]]&nbsp;<small><small>17:07, 2 May 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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My main character in a current game is a fighter, and I couldn't disagree more. Although I don't think that power is a big deal. But, well, let me put it this way. I'm a 10th level fighter and I took down an 16th level paladin NPC. Just saying. Spellcasters get one shot at me, if I get to them first, they're screwed.<br />
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=== [[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]]&nbsp;<small><small>06:06, 4 May 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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As Dmilewski said, it is basically about knowing feat choices if you are trying to compare raw power. Fighters are criticized for having "dead levels". Basically, levels where you don't get much than a few skill points, +1 BAB, and some save increases. That is a pretty boring thing to play especially. It sucks when you level up and find "now I can survive 9 more damage and have a +1 to hit".<br />
<br />
You can however, get a lot of versatility with the bonus feats. You can build better archers, grapplers, tacklers, trippers, disarmers, sunderers, etc. than any other class. That counts for something.<br />
<br />
More often than not though, fighters are used to qualify for a good PrC. Does this make them inherently bad themselves? I don't think so. I just think they are inherently bland not bad. That goes back to the dead levels (as well as no special thing to them besides a bucket o feats).<br />
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=== [[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]]&nbsp;<small><small>16:20, 4 May 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
I agree that the fighter class, as written is a pretty bland class. I don't know anyone who has played a pure-class fighter beyond about 7th or 8th level. I have seen players go pure-class rogue, paladin, wizard, and monk all the way through 13th (of course, that's when most of the campaigns end). I think that it is a matter of "flavour" and not power.<br />
<br />
The fighter class gives you tons of options and no real direction. You can be a brute-strength-high-AC-tank fighter, you can be a highly-agile-nible-dodging-multi-attacking fighter, or you can be any of a million other options. And once you include all (or even just some) of the supplimental books for their feat selections, the options become almost endless. It is up to the player to come up with an interesting concept and then make it happen.<br />
<br />
With other classes, you have variations, but most of them have a clear general direction due to their class abilities.<br />
<br />
So, in terms of min-max-munchkin-power-curve-optimization, the fighter is just fine and, if done right, can stand toe to toe with most other characters. In terms of cool-conceptual-role-playing-story-based-fun, the fighter probably isn't the best choice.<br />
<br />
But then, that's my 3.5 cents.<br />
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=== [[Special:Contributions/84.65.210.126|84.65.210.126]]&nbsp;<small><small>02:55, 30 May 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Compare a fighter to a warblade. The fighter is very much the weaker of the two. To rectify this, I sugest a keen longsword or greatsword (any weapon with crit 19-20) and the improved critical feat. This makes the fighter crit 13-20. This may help the fighter to become stronger when paired with power attack and great cleave!<br />
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=== [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]]&nbsp;<small><small>08:49, 30 May 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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Only thing being that Keen doesn't stack with Improved Critical- but if it did work, do it with a rapier...<br />
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=== [[Special:Contributions/71.146.160.50|71.146.160.50]]&nbsp;<small><small>05:12, 22 June 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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He is not so much underpowered, as set up to be a generalist in a specialist world. I mean, really, how many people ''want'' to take the time to learn how to use all those weapons only to end up specializing in 1. if that were the case i'd specialize in 1 from the beginning and pick up others as i deem them necessary. This also has the side-effect of making Sunder as an attack option more devastating.<br />
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=== [[Special:Contributions/150.101.226.26|150.101.226.26]]&nbsp;<small><small>22:17, 9 September 2007 </small></small> ===<br />
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i dont think the fighter is underpowered. sure if you fail to use his feat selections effectively youll make him pathetically weak but thats the same with the other classes if the fighters feat selections are used effectively thenthey can be as deadly as special abilities.<br />
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=== [[User:Tokara2132|Tokara2132]]&nbsp;<small><small>01:17, 11 September 2007</small></small> ===<br />
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Well, I have much experience playing fighters (my first ever D&D character was a fighter) and while it is a bit "bland" compared with the "fight unarmed and naked" monk, but the strength and power of the fighter comes not from a blandness of rules but the ability of the role player. The fact that the fighter can become just about any kind of fighter make it very versatile, and with a little imagination a fighter can easily be as complex and unique character. One need only look towards Rich Burlews brilliant Order of the Stick to illustrate that point. So it takes a little longer to Min/Max a fighter, big deal. I find it rather annoying that people try to Min/Max a game that requires a great amount of fore thought and planning. That is what Video Games are for. Sure, I enjoy myself a little Min/Maxing, but not when I can create a truly classic character, myself, even if it is just in my mind.<br />
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=== [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]]&nbsp;<small><small>10:03, 15 September 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
I think that blandness is the problem. It's not just more work to min/max a fighter; it's also more difficult to create a strong character without the central hook and inspiration given by a class. The other classes still need work doing, but they have the root and trunk of the character, so to speak, and just need the branches and leaves of background and personality; a fighter is only the root, without the pre-made "trunk" given by a class- Wizards are scholarly, good-aligned barbarians are noble but uncivilised, Clerics are devoted, Druids are half-wild, but a fighter is just that- someone who fights. Every other class does that, but they have a bit more on top.<br />
<br />
It can be fun to mess around with the stereotypes, of course, but again, the fighter loses out because it doesn't really ''have'' a stereotype.<br />
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=== [[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]]&nbsp;<small><small>13:33, 15 September 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
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You are right, though if you have in mind the "standard" fighter from fantasy movies (LotR, Troy, etc.) it can be quite cool. People say "a fighter with well chosen feats..." but it is really easy to muck it all up, just to choose things like cleave, that look cool, but become useless at higher levels. One thing I dont get is that a monk has better saves AND more special stuff than a fighter: you may get more choice with a fighter, but you loose out when it comes to actual gameplay. I've always prefered the fighter to the monk (It is just more cool. Fighting unarmed to "master yourself", meanwhile blathering on about Ki or Chi or whatever it is called this week is not just uncool, but seriously uncool). They just got lazy with the fighter. But it does seem that they are redoing it (see WotC page, though those that have seen the thing on the fighter may agree with me that we probably wont describe our fighters as "he's a sword and broad, man"). What I want is someone like Achilles, not the current fighter.<br />
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=== [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]]&nbsp;<small><small>09:13, 17 September 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
I like what they appear to be doing, too- rather than Generic Hitty Guy, the fighter is turning into a Weaponmaster- someone whose life revolves around weapons training. As far as I know, you'll have the choice of versatility (a talent or two with most weapons) or concentration, mastering their favoured weapon beyond all else.<br />
<br />
Fighter/Cleric multi-classing could get interesting if there's a bit of Favoured Weapon stuff for Clerics...<br />
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===[[User:Verictord1768|Verictord1768]]&nbsp;<small><small>02:32, 12 February 2008 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
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I honestly prefer playing a fighter in campaigns, of course I do play them a little off-beat of the run into melee range and hack away endlessly... I prefer to play them as a ranged class, taking feats from PHB, PHB2, Complete Warrior, and Complete Adventurer. At one point with feats alone my character maximum range for an arrow was effectively over a mile, while you can't see anything that far (unless there is no obscuring view of some sort, but even then their tiny)it seemed a little overpowered to our group. All combat feats are considered fighter feats, so you can get point blank shot and all the other goodies that make range combat ungodly overpowered. So essentially a fighter is limited to his feats and how well you can utilize them.<br />
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=== [[User:Kelly|Kelly]]&nbsp;<small><small>02:11, 14 February 2008 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
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You know, I don't understand why anyone would think fighters are underpowered. They will pretty much wipe the floor with any other character of equivalent level in straight up combat, and have got the hit points to survive a hell of a lot of magic thrown at them. And in terms of playing an adventure, spellcasters have to constantly ration their spells, never sure if they might need them more later, while a fighter can just keep doing the thing they do best, encounter after encounter.<br />
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=== [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]]&nbsp;<small><small>04:23, 14 February 2008 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
But casters can often just rest to get their spells back (depending on the DM), and fighters fall flat if they get hit with a Save-or-Die (or worse, Dominate...).<br />
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=== [[User:Kelly|Kelly]]&nbsp;<small><small>18:23, 14 February 2008</small></small> ===<br />
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Yeah, that "Depending on the DM" bit is crucial. Myself, I don't like the video game style of play where spellcasters can just decide to rest whenever it's conveneient.<br />
<br />
And doesn't everyone fall flat some variety of Save-or-Die spells? Just depends on the type. Remember, Disintegrate is a fort save, something Fighters are great at but most spellcasters aren't. And watch out for those poisoned arrows...<br />
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===[[Special:Contributions/70.67.223.212|70.67.223.212]]&nbsp;<small><small>19:19, 17 February 2008 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
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Is it video game style to stop swinging a long sword at something immune to slashing damage?<br />
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=== [[User:Kelly|Kelly]]&nbsp;<small><small>19:53, 18 February 2008 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
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Wow. I have no idea what that comment is supposed to mean.<br />
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=== [[User:Hijax|Hijax]]&nbsp;<small><small>12:08, 6 February 2009 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
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kelly, while a fighter may be good at fort saves (and therefore disintegrate and the like), there's a TON of spells that use will saves. as 70.67.223.212 staed, dominate person/monster is a good example.<br />
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{{Forumfooter|Discussion}}</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322507Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-06T13:37:17Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST<br />
<br />
:::: Because Eiji recognizes the poor practical implementation of psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:10, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::you meaning?(sorry if missed something. im very new on the field of psionics) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:44, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::: Psionics is a good idea. As a concept, I like it; it's well done and it's well thought out. But, how's it's been implemented is not. It's like they spent so much of the time thinking "Hey, this is cool, this is how x should be done and how y should be explained" and then they ran out of time and just churned out some poorly written rules and powers for psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:29, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::why do you think the system is bad? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:33, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::: Was I not clear? Because it's POORLY WRITTEN. It's poorly thought out and, in the end, just ends up lacking; especially when you compare it to Arcane Spellcasting in general. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:37, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::i was thinking more like give me an example --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:39, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: See [[SRD:powers|here]] --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:40, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::i still dont get what it is that you hate so much. you dont like thesystem with power points, you think the powers are not balanced, what is it goddamn that you dont like? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:47, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::: Evidently, you're failing to understand. Also, you're jumping to some ridiculous assumptions. I didn't say I hated it; I said it was poorly implemented. That's what it is; poorly implemented. It may look to you all shiny and new and blahblahblah, but so does shit wrapped in wrapping paper. Overall; it's just BAD. Also, what do you hate; the shift key? --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:51, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
Lol wut? Actually, I'm just no good at psionics. Plus, wanted to put some alientist in there, for the flavor. Either way looks tasty. I'll work on magic-Cthulthu, a psi-Cthulthu would be fine too. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 09:45, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
: ignore the build i posted (figured it was horibly ineffective to take metamind that far. (I mean, you start over with learning higher-level powers) <br />
:Anyway, ill try to make a sample psi-cthulhu build (though it probably won't fit the term 'optimized') --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:33, 6 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322506Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-06T13:34:34Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST<br />
<br />
:::: Because Eiji recognizes the poor practical implementation of psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:10, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::you meaning?(sorry if missed something. im very new on the field of psionics) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:44, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::: Psionics is a good idea. As a concept, I like it; it's well done and it's well thought out. But, how's it's been implemented is not. It's like they spent so much of the time thinking "Hey, this is cool, this is how x should be done and how y should be explained" and then they ran out of time and just churned out some poorly written rules and powers for psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:29, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::why do you think the system is bad? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:33, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::: Was I not clear? Because it's POORLY WRITTEN. It's poorly thought out and, in the end, just ends up lacking; especially when you compare it to Arcane Spellcasting in general. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:37, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::i was thinking more like give me an example --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:39, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: See [[SRD:powers|here]] --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:40, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::i still dont get what it is that you hate so much. you dont like thesystem with power points, you think the powers are not balanced, what is it goddamn that you dont like? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:47, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::: Evidently, you're failing to understand. Also, you're jumping to some ridiculous assumptions. I didn't say I hated it; I said it was poorly implemented. That's what it is; poorly implemented. It may look to you all shiny and new and blahblahblah, but so does shit wrapped in wrapping paper. Overall; it's just BAD. Also, what do you hate; the shift key? --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:51, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
Lol wut? Actually, I'm just no good at psionics. Plus, wanted to put some alientist in there, for the flavor. Either way looks tasty. I'll work on magic-Cthulthu, a psi-Cthulthu would be fine too. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 09:45, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
: ignore the build i posted (figured it was horibly ineffective to take metamind that far. (I mean, you start over with learning higher-level powers) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:33, 6 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322505Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-06T13:34:08Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::may i suggest this build: Race=human/any<br />
:::then you can go top off your psion levels or what ever. make sure to max out psicraft and knowledge psionics --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Because Eiji recognizes the poor practical implementation of psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:10, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::you meaning?(sorry if missed something. im very new on the field of psionics) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:44, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::: Psionics is a good idea. As a concept, I like it; it's well done and it's well thought out. But, how's it's been implemented is not. It's like they spent so much of the time thinking "Hey, this is cool, this is how x should be done and how y should be explained" and then they ran out of time and just churned out some poorly written rules and powers for psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:29, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::why do you think the system is bad? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:33, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::: Was I not clear? Because it's POORLY WRITTEN. It's poorly thought out and, in the end, just ends up lacking; especially when you compare it to Arcane Spellcasting in general. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:37, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::i was thinking more like give me an example --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:39, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: See [[SRD:powers|here]] --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:40, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::i still dont get what it is that you hate so much. you dont like thesystem with power points, you think the powers are not balanced, what is it goddamn that you dont like? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:47, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::: Evidently, you're failing to understand. Also, you're jumping to some ridiculous assumptions. I didn't say I hated it; I said it was poorly implemented. That's what it is; poorly implemented. It may look to you all shiny and new and blahblahblah, but so does shit wrapped in wrapping paper. Overall; it's just BAD. Also, what do you hate; the shift key? --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:51, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
Lol wut? Actually, I'm just no good at psionics. Plus, wanted to put some alientist in there, for the flavor. Either way looks tasty. I'll work on magic-Cthulthu, a psi-Cthulthu would be fine too. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 09:45, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
: ignore the build i posted (figured it was horibly ineffective to take metamind that far. (I mean, you start over with learning higher-level powers) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:33, 6 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322504Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-06T13:33:50Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::may i suggest this build: Race=human/any<br />
:::then you can go top off your psion levels or what ever. make sure to max out psicraft and knowledge psionics --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Because Eiji recognizes the poor practical implementation of psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:10, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::you meaning?(sorry if missed something. im very new on the field of psionics) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:44, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::: Psionics is a good idea. As a concept, I like it; it's well done and it's well thought out. But, how's it's been implemented is not. It's like they spent so much of the time thinking "Hey, this is cool, this is how x should be done and how y should be explained" and then they ran out of time and just churned out some poorly written rules and powers for psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:29, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::why do you think the system is bad? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:33, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::: Was I not clear? Because it's POORLY WRITTEN. It's poorly thought out and, in the end, just ends up lacking; especially when you compare it to Arcane Spellcasting in general. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:37, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::i was thinking more like give me an example --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:39, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: See [[SRD:powers|here]] --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:40, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::i still dont get what it is that you hate so much. you dont like thesystem with power points, you think the powers are not balanced, what is it goddamn that you dont like? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:47, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::: Evidently, you're failing to understand. Also, you're jumping to some ridiculous assumptions. I didn't say I hated it; I said it was poorly implemented. That's what it is; poorly implemented. It may look to you all shiny and new and blahblahblah, but so does shit wrapped in wrapping paper. Overall; it's just BAD. Also, what do you hate; the shift key? --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:51, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
Lol wut? Actually, I'm just no good at psionics. Plus, wanted to put some alientist in there, for the flavor. Either way looks tasty. I'll work on magic-Cthulthu, a psi-Cthulthu would be fine too. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 09:45, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
: ignore the build i posted (figured it was horibly ineffective to take metamind that fra. I mean, you start over with learning higher-level powers) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:33, 6 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322348Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-05T15:47:35Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::may i suggest this build: Race=human/any<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! rowspan="2" | ECL<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Feats<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class<br/>Features<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 1st || Psion 1|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+1), inner strength(+2) || || discipline:telepathy<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 2nd || psion 2|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 3rd || Psion 3|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+3) || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 4th || Psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 5th || metamind 1/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || inner strength(+4) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 6th || metamind 2/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || quicken power || inner strength(+5) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 7th || metamind 3/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 8th || metamind 4/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || ||inner strength(+6) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 9th || metamind 5/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || maximize power || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 10th || metamind 6/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || inner strength (+7) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 11th || metamind 7/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 12th || metamind 8/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || any || psychic vampire || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 13th || metamind 9/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 14th || metamind 10/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || apotheosis || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:::then you can go top off your psion levels or what ever. make sure to max out psicraft and knowledge psionics --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Because Eiji recognizes the poor practical implementation of psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:10, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::you meaning?(sorry if missed something. im very new on the field of psionics) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:44, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::: Psionics is a good idea. As a concept, I like it; it's well done and it's well thought out. But, how's it's been implemented is not. It's like they spent so much of the time thinking "Hey, this is cool, this is how x should be done and how y should be explained" and then they ran out of time and just churned out some poorly written rules and powers for psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:29, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::why do you think the system is bad? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:33, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::: Was I not clear? Because it's POORLY WRITTEN. It's poorly thought out and, in the end, just ends up lacking; especially when you compare it to Arcane Spellcasting in general. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:37, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::i was thinking more like give me an example --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:39, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: See [[SRD:powers|here]] --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:40, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::i still dont get what it is that you hate so much. you dont like thesystem with power points, you think the powers are not balanced, what is it goddamn that you dont like? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:47, 5 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322347Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-05T15:47:00Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::may i suggest this build: Race=human/any<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! rowspan="2" | ECL<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Feats<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class<br/>Features<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 1st || Psion 1|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+1), inner strength(+2) || || discipline:telepathy<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 2nd || psion 2|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 3rd || Psion 3|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+3) || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 4th || Psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 5th || metamind 1/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || inner strength(+4) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 6th || metamind 2/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || quicken power || inner strength(+5) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 7th || metamind 3/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 8th || metamind 4/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || ||inner strength(+6) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 9th || metamind 5/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || maximize power || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 10th || metamind 6/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || inner strength (+7) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 11th || metamind 7/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 12th || metamind 8/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || any || psychic vampire || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 13th || metamind 9/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 14th || metamind 10/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || apotheosis || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:::then you can go top off your psion levels or what ever. make sure to max out psicraft and knowledge psionics --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Because Eiji recognizes the poor practical implementation of psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:10, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::you meaning?(sorry if missed something. im very new on the field of psionics) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:44, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::: Psionics is a good idea. As a concept, I like it; it's well done and it's well thought out. But, how's it's been implemented is not. It's like they spent so much of the time thinking "Hey, this is cool, this is how x should be done and how y should be explained" and then they ran out of time and just churned out some poorly written rules and powers for psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:29, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::why do you think the system is bad? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:33, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::: Was I not clear? Because it's POORLY WRITTEN. It's poorly thought out and, in the end, just ends up lacking; especially when you compare it to Arcane Spellcasting in general. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:37, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::i was thinking more like give me an example --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:39, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: See [[SRD:powers|here]] --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:40, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::i still dont get what it is that you hate so much. you dont like thesystem with power points, you think the powers are not balanced, what is it goddamn that you dont like?</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322346Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-05T15:43:12Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::may i suggest this build: Race=human/any<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! rowspan="2" | ECL<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Feats<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class<br/>Features<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 1st || Psion 1|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+1), inner strength(+2) || || discipline:telepathy<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 2nd || psion 2|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 3rd || Psion 3|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+3) || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 4th || Psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 5th || metamind 1/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || inner strength(+4) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 6th || metamind 2/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || quicken power || inner strength(+5) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 7th || metamind 3/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 8th || metamind 4/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || ||inner strength(+6) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 9th || metamind 5/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || maximize power || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 10th || metamind 6/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || inner strength (+7) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 11th || metamind 7/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 12th || metamind 8/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || any || psychic vampire || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 13th || metamind 9/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 14th || metamind 10/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || apotheosis || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:::then you can go top off your psion levels or what ever. make sure to max out psicraft and knowledge psionics --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Because Eiji recognizes the poor practical implementation of psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:10, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::you meaning?(sorry if missed something. im very new on the field of psionics) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:44, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::: Psionics is a good idea. As a concept, I like it; it's well done and it's well thought out. But, how's it's been implemented is not. It's like they spent so much of the time thinking "Hey, this is cool, this is how x should be done and how y should be explained" and then they ran out of time and just churned out some poorly written rules and powers for psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:29, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::why do you think the system is bad? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:33, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::: Was I not clear? Because it's POORLY WRITTEN. It's poorly thought out and, in the end, just ends up lacking; especially when you compare it to Arcane Spellcasting in general. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:37, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::i was thinking more like give me an example --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:39, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: See [[SRD:powers|here]] --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:40, 5 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322341Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-05T15:39:59Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::may i suggest this build: Race=human/any<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! rowspan="2" | ECL<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Feats<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class<br/>Features<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 1st || Psion 1|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+1), inner strength(+2) || || discipline:telepathy<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 2nd || psion 2|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 3rd || Psion 3|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+3) || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 4th || Psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 5th || metamind 1/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || inner strength(+4) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 6th || metamind 2/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || quicken power || inner strength(+5) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 7th || metamind 3/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 8th || metamind 4/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || ||inner strength(+6) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 9th || metamind 5/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || maximize power || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 10th || metamind 6/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || inner strength (+7) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 11th || metamind 7/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 12th || metamind 8/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || any || psychic vampire || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 13th || metamind 9/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 14th || metamind 10/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || apotheosis || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:::then you can go top off your psion levels or what ever. make sure to max out psicraft and knowledge psionics --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Because Eiji recognizes the poor practical implementation of psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:10, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::you meaning?(sorry if missed something. im very new on the field of psionics) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:44, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::: Psionics is a good idea. As a concept, I like it; it's well done and it's well thought out. But, how's it's been implemented is not. It's like they spent so much of the time thinking "Hey, this is cool, this is how x should be done and how y should be explained" and then they ran out of time and just churned out some poorly written rules and powers for psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:29, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::why do you think the system is bad? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:33, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::: Was I not clear? Because it's POORLY WRITTEN. It's poorly thought out and, in the end, just ends up lacking; especially when you compare it to Arcane Spellcasting in general. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:37, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::i was thinking more like give me an example --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:39, 5 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322338Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-05T15:33:28Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::may i suggest this build: Race=human/any<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! rowspan="2" | ECL<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Feats<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class<br/>Features<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 1st || Psion 1|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+1), inner strength(+2) || || discipline:telepathy<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 2nd || psion 2|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 3rd || Psion 3|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+3) || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 4th || Psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 5th || metamind 1/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || inner strength(+4) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 6th || metamind 2/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || quicken power || inner strength(+5) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 7th || metamind 3/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 8th || metamind 4/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || ||inner strength(+6) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 9th || metamind 5/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || maximize power || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 10th || metamind 6/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || inner strength (+7) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 11th || metamind 7/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 12th || metamind 8/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || any || psychic vampire || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 13th || metamind 9/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 14th || metamind 10/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || apotheosis || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:::then you can go top off your psion levels or what ever. make sure to max out psicraft and knowledge psionics --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Because Eiji recognizes the poor practical implementation of psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:10, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::you meaning?(sorry if missed something. im very new on the field of psionics) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:44, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::: Psionics is a good idea. As a concept, I like it; it's well done and it's well thought out. But, how's it's been implemented is not. It's like they spent so much of the time thinking "Hey, this is cool, this is how x should be done and how y should be explained" and then they ran out of time and just churned out some poorly written rules and powers for psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:29, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::why do you think the system is bad? --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:33, 5 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322332Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-05T14:44:03Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::may i suggest this build: Race=human/any<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! rowspan="2" | ECL<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Feats<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class<br/>Features<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 1st || Psion 1|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+1), inner strength(+2) || || discipline:telepathy<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 2nd || psion 2|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 3rd || Psion 3|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+3) || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 4th || Psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 5th || metamind 1/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || inner strength(+4) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 6th || metamind 2/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || quicken power || inner strength(+5) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 7th || metamind 3/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 8th || metamind 4/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || ||inner strength(+6) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 9th || metamind 5/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || maximize power || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 10th || metamind 6/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || inner strength (+7) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 11th || metamind 7/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 12th || metamind 8/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || any || psychic vampire || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 13th || metamind 9/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 14th || metamind 10/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || apotheosis || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:::then you can go top off your psion levels or what ever. make sure to max out psicraft and knowledge psionics --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Because Eiji recognizes the poor practical implementation of psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:10, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::::you meaning?(sorry if missed something. im very new on the field of psionics) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 07:44, 5 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322331Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-05T14:43:46Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::may i suggest this build: Race=human/any<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! rowspan="2" | ECL<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Feats<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class<br/>Features<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 1st || Psion 1|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+1), inner strength(+2) || || discipline:telepathy<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 2nd || psion 2|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 3rd || Psion 3|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+3) || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 4th || Psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 5th || metamind 1/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || inner strength(+4) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 6th || metamind 2/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || quicken power || inner strength(+5) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 7th || metamind 3/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 8th || metamind 4/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || ||inner strength(+6) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 9th || metamind 5/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || maximize power || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 10th || metamind 6/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || inner strength (+7) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 11th || metamind 7/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 12th || metamind 8/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || any || psychic vampire || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 13th || metamind 9/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 14th || metamind 10/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || apotheosis || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:::then you can go top off your psion levels or what ever. make sure to max out psicraft and knowledge psionics --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Because Eiji recognizes the poor practical implementation of psionics. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 07:10, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
:::::you meaning?(sorry if missed something. im very new on the field of psionics)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322323Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-05T14:04:28Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
may i suggest this build:<br />
Race=human/any<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! rowspan="2" | ECL<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Feats<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class<br/>Features<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 1st || Psion 1|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+1), inner strength(+2) || || discipline:telepathy<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 2nd || psion 2|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 3rd || Psion 3|| + || + || + || + || inner strength(+3) || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 4th || Psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 5th || metamind 1/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || inner strength(+4) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 6th || metamind 2/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || quicken power || inner strength(+5) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 7th || metamind 3/psion 4|| + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 8th || metamind 4/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || ||inner strength(+6) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 9th || metamind 5/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || maximize power || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 10th || metamind 6/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || inner strength (+7) || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 11th || metamind 7/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 12th || metamind 8/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || any || psychic vampire || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 13th || metamind 9/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || trigger power || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 14th || metamind 10/psion 4 || + || + || + || + || || apotheosis || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
|}<br />
then you can go top off your psion levels or what ever.<br />
make sure tom max out psicraft and knowledge psionics --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322320Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-05T13:11:15Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)<br />
WHOA!!! i just realized something. WHY THE FUCK ISN*T HE A PSION!?!? i mean, by very definition cthulhu should be psionic. (if its because you dont have psionic handbook, get it at 4shared.com) --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 06:11, 5 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Discussion:Power_Attack_and_Strength_Checks&diff=322315Discussion:Power Attack and Strength Checks2009-02-05T12:41:56Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Power Attack and Strength Checks == <br />
<br />
Out of curiosity, can power attack be used to increase a strength check? As I read the feat you forgo accuracy to add increased force to your blow, to me that means that you should be able to use power attack in more ways then simply increasing damage. <br />
<br />
An example of this would be using a power attack to increase your modifer when tripping a monster, or perhaps power attacking that pesky locked door.<br />
<br />
Discuss? <br />
<br />
=== [[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]]&nbsp;<small><small>13:35, 26 January 2009 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
Only if you use the Knockback feat from Races of Stone.<br />
<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Hijax|Hijax]]&nbsp;<small><small>05:41, 5 February 2009 (MST)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
you cant use power attack to improve your strength check to smack the door, though i'd allow it if i were your DM<br />
<!-- DO NOT REMOVE OR EDIT THIS LINE NOR ANYTHING BELOW IT<br />
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{{Forumfooter|Discussion}}<br />
__NOTOC__</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322313Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-05T12:36:25Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn<br />
<br />
:That actually is the plan. :D I admit... I totally forgot about this page being unfinished. Time to finish it. -- [[User:Eiji|Eiji]] 18:44, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
::good (Also swap 5 cleric levels for druid and take a few master of many forms levels + abberation wild shape. remember, Cthulhu cannot be said to have physichal form (he cant even be described or comphrehended by mortal minds)). --[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 05:36, 5 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Soul_Burn_(3.5e_Spell)&diff=322231Soul Burn (3.5e Spell)2009-02-04T20:44:08Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=hijax<br />
|date_created=11:24, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
|status=done<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{Spell<br />
|name=Soul Burn<br />
|school=[[SRD:Evocation School|Evocation]]<br />
|desc=[[Evil Effect|Evil]], [[Fire Effect|Fire]]<br />
|lvl=Sor/Wiz 5, Clr 5<br />
|comp=V,S,M/DF<br />
|casttime=1 standard action<br />
|range=Medium (100 ft + 10 ft/level)<br />
|dur=Instantaneous<br />
|tsea=One creature<br />
|subj=One creature<br />
|save=See text<br />
|sr=Yes<br />
}}<br />
<br />
This spell summons magical flames to burn the opponent's soul. They deal 1d6/lvl [[Fire Effect|fire]] damage, and in addition causes 1d4 [[SRD:Energy Drain, Negative Levels, and Level Loss#Negative Levels|negative levels]] on the target. Succesful [[SRD:Reflex|Reflex]] save halves the [[Fire Effect|fire]] damage, a succesful [[SRD:Fortitude|Fortitude]] save negates the [[SRD:Energy Drain, Negative Levels, and Level Loss#Negative Levels|negative levels]].<br />
<br />
''Material Component:'' A small piece of sulfur.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Sorcerer/Wizard Spells Breadcrumb}}<br/><br />
{{3.5e Cleric Spells Breadcrumb}}<br/><br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Spell]]<br />
[[Category:Evocation School]]<br />
[[Category:Fire Effect]]<br />
[[Category:Evil Effect]]<br />
[[Category:Sorcerer/Wizard 5]]<br />
[[Category:Cleric 5 ]]</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Little_Cuthulhu_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=322230Talk:Little Cuthulhu (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-02-04T20:36:16Z<p>Hijax: New page: may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn</p>
<hr />
<div>may i suggest you grant him wings and tentacles using these feats: abberant blooded, starspawn, deepspawn</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Phoenix_(3.5e_Creature)&diff=322173Talk:Phoenix (3.5e Creature)2009-02-04T18:31:38Z<p>Hijax: /* Formatting */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Formatting ==<br />
<br />
Hey, this needs formatting. Can you sort this please? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:16, 10 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Done. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:31, 10 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== fire trail? ==<br />
<br />
i think it should have some sort of fire trail ability--[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 11:31, 4 February 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Soul_Burn_(3.5e_Spell)&diff=322170Soul Burn (3.5e Spell)2009-02-04T18:24:20Z<p>Hijax: New page: {{author |author_name=hijax |date_created=~~~~~ |status=done }} {{Spell |name=Soul Burn |school=Evocation |desc=fire, evil |lvl=Sor/Wiz 5, Clr 5 |comp=sulfur |casttime=standard action |ra...</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=hijax<br />
|date_created=11:24, 4 February 2009 (MST)<br />
|status=done<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{Spell<br />
|name=Soul Burn<br />
|school=Evocation<br />
|desc=fire, evil<br />
|lvl=Sor/Wiz 5, Clr 5<br />
|comp=sulfur<br />
|casttime=standard action<br />
|range=medium (100 ft + 10 ft/level)<br />
|dur=instantaneous<br />
|tsea=one creature<br />
|subj=one creature<br />
|save=see text<br />
|sr=yes<br />
}}<br />
<br />
this spell summons magical flames to burn the opponent's soul. they deal 1d6/lvl fire damage, and in addition causes 1d4 negative levels on the target. succesful reflex save halves the fire damage, a succesful fortitude save negates the negative levels.<br />
<br />
''Material Component:'' a small piece of sulfur<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e sorcerer/wizard Spells Breadcrumb}}<br/><br />
{{3.5e cleric Spells Breadcrumb}}<br/><br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Spell]]<br />
[[Category:evocation School]]<br />
[[Category:fire Effect]]<!--delete this line if no effect is present--><br />
[[Category:sor/wiz 5]]<br />
[[Category:cleric 5 ]]</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Ecologic_Necromancy_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=311556Ecologic Necromancy (3.5e Feat)2009-01-05T16:40:11Z<p>Hijax: New page: <div class="supplement"> {{author |author_name=Hijax |date_created=~~~ |status=done }} {{3.5e Feat |name=Ecologic Necromancy |types=General |summary=Can animate destroyed undead |prereqs=...</p>
<hr />
<div><div class="supplement"><br />
{{author<br />
|author_name=Hijax<br />
|date_created=[[User:Hijax|Hijax]]<br />
|status=done<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{3.5e Feat<br />
|name=Ecologic Necromancy<br />
|types=General<br />
|summary=Can animate destroyed undead<br />
|prereqs=Must be able to cast animate dead<br />
|benefit=You may use animate dead on undead corpses. the zombie/skeleton template is applied to the corpse, as normal.<br />
|normal=The zombie/skeleton templates can't be applied to undead normally<br />
|special=Druids no longer think your sick and unnatural. Reuse. Reduce. Reanimate.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
<br />
{{3.5e Feats Breadcrumb}} &rarr; [[DnD General Feats|General Feats]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Feat]]<br />
[[Category:General Feat]]<br />
<br />
</div></div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Thoughts_on_Sorcery_(3.5e_Other)&diff=310587Thoughts on Sorcery (3.5e Other)2009-01-03T15:35:06Z<p>Hijax: /* Variant One: Blood is Power */</p>
<hr />
<div>__FORCETOC__<br />
==Introduction==<br />
<br />
the purpose of this project is to rethink sorcery, and to correct some of the massive flaws in the current rules for sorcerers. when I'm done, sorcery will never be the same again.<br />
<br />
==The Flaws==<br />
<br />
Here i will try to correct some of the flaws in the rules.<br />
<br />
===Flaw One: Inborn Magic ===<br />
<br />
One of the flaws of sorcerers is, that their magic is inborn. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is bad way this is implemented. Sorcerers' magic is inborn, and they havent chosen to be sorcerers. Yet, they strangely get to chose which spell they can cast. On the other hand, the new spells they learn each level are earned through practice, and it seems natural for them to choose these. So this is what we do to sorcerers:<br />
<br />
* Choose the spells they know at first level randomly.<br />
<br />
We'll come back to this later.<br />
<br />
There's another problem that arises from the fact that sorcerer's magic is inborn. when you are a sorcerer, you have inborn magic potency, and you have realized it. Even if the class you choose at first level isn't sorcerer, you can still multiclass into sorcerer later, you just realize your magic potetial the moment you multiclass sorcerer. However, this means that actually ALL PC's have magic potential. Because if some don't have, they wouldn't be able to multiclass sorcerer, and everybody can.<br />
in addition, all sorcerers are ''born'' with their potential, but a player character isn't born at character creation. The player merely "picks him up" at that point. But what if the player early as a child discovers the sorcerous powers, fiddles around with, say, one spell a day, but then leaves it at that and goes to monk school?<br />
<br />
So, to fix these two problems we do two things:<br />
<br />
* You can't multiclass into sorcerer. If you don't have it as your first class, you can never get it.<br />
* Create the following feat:<br />
<br />
'''Inborn Arcana'''<br />
<br />
''You have a sorcerous potential.''<br />
<br />
'''Prequisites''': Must be taken at first level. You can't be a sorcerer when you take this feat.<br />
<br />
'''Benefits''': You either know a single first-level spell and can cast it once a day, or three 0th-level spells and can cast them a total of three times per day. This is spontaneous casting, and the spell(s) are chosen randomly. In addition, it's possible for you to multiclass into sorcerer.<br />
<br />
===Flaw Two: Spontaneous Specialization===<br />
<br />
Sorcerers can't specialize, and goddamnit, that's annoying! It's totally impossible for a sorcerer to be born with more power for, say, evocation, than other schools of magic. Of course, with the basic sorcerer rules, you can just choose to know only evocation spells. but this doesn't make you any more ''powerful'' at evocation, it just mean that you know more ''different'' evocation spells.<br />
<br />
And you can't even do that if you take my first rule change into account. To achieve a focused sorcerer, but not make it a clone of wizard specialication, this is what i do:<br />
<br />
* Make it possible for sorcerers to choose a specialication school<br />
* Make all spells from that school count as one spell slot lower.<br />
* A specialized sorcerer must choose FOUR prohibited schools.<br />
* The sorcerer's random starting spells will all be from his specialized school.<br />
''''' Important Note: This section hasn't been tested. It may very well be very unbalanced. I'd be very happy if somebody who is using my variant rules edit this section after their own experiences. Especially the number of prohibited schools could probably be better.'''''<br />
<br />
==Improvements==<br />
<br />
Here i will state some variant rules that, while not really correcting flaws, will still improve your game.<br />
<br />
===Variant One: Blood is Power===<br />
<br />
Sorcerers may gain their power in many ways, but its often in their blood. While it's fine to not ever think about it, here's a few feats to distinguish between different sources of sorcerous power. If you havent got any of these feats, you just haven't discovered where your power comes from yet:<br />
<br />
'''Celestial Blood'''<br />
<br />
''You have realized that your sorcerous powers come from celestial blood.''<br/><br />
'''Prerequisites:''' Must be a sorcerer. Must be good aligned.<br/><br />
'''Benefit:''' spell with the good descriptor (including ones cast to summon good creatures) are cast at +1 caster level<br />
<br />
'''Fiendish Blood'''<br />
''You have realized that your sorcerous powers come from fiendish blood.''<br/><br />
'''Prerequisites:''' Must be a sorcerer. Must be evil aligned.<br/><br />
'''Benefit:''' spell with the evil descriptor (including ones cast to summon evil creatures) are cast at +1 caster level<br />
<br />
'''Draconic Blood'''<br />
''You have realized that your sorcerous powers come from draconic blood.''<br/><br />
'''Prerequisites:''' Must be a sorcerer.<br/><br />
'''Benefit:''' choose a dragon type from the table below. you gain the benefits stated for that dragon type.<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ Table: Dragon Blood Type<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | Dragon Variety || Benefits<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Red Dragon || align="left" | Fire spells at +1<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Silver Dragon || align="left" | Cold spells at caster level +1<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Blue Dragon || align="left" | Create/destroy water like a blue dragon 1 time per day<br />
|- class="even" style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
| style="text-align: left;" | Bronze Dragon || align="left" | Can speak with animals.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Other|Other]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Other]]</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Thoughts_on_Sorcery_(3.5e_Other)&diff=310586Talk:Thoughts on Sorcery (3.5e Other)2009-01-03T15:34:10Z<p>Hijax: /* Alignment Requirements */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Alignment Requirements==<br />
<br />
Having alignment requirements for the Celestial Blooded, Fiendish Blooded and Draconic Blooded struck me as odd at first reading... and I've had a tough time figuring out why. With alignment restrictions, it seems almost mean to limit a character with such flavoring. I mean, [[SRD:Aasimar|aasimars]] are only listed as "usually good" and [[SRD:Tiefling|tieflings]] as "usually evil", so why would something with less potent plane-touched blood have a greater restriction? Perhaps if they only gained a caster level bonus if they had such an alignment (which would still allow for regular sorcerer abilities, just not fancy alignment bonuses to alignment-based descriptor spells). Draconic Blooded alignment restriction just bugs me period... not sure what else to say about that (since none of the granted powers are alignment based). --[[User:Ganteka|Ganteka]] 13:32, 26 December 2008 (MST)<br />
:thats because celestial/fiendish blooded are about igniting your celestial/fiendish blood. and that doesn't make sense to me if you aren't of that alignment (maybe if your neutral. heck, that would be cool, demon-blooded demon hunter). still, what do you mean by saying that they shouldn't have caster level bonus if they didn't have that alignment? these are not special extras, theyre feats. and the only benefit from the feat are the caster level increase.<br />
<br />
however, the restrictions on draconic blood, i can see, was stupid. ive removed them. -[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:34, 3 January 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:The_Wish_and_the_Word_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=310585Talk:The Wish and the Word (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-01-03T15:24:07Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>Sublime Chord doesn't work the way listed. A sublime chord adds their SC caster levels to their existing arcane class, if there is more than one, they choose one of them. -- Draco18s [[User:144.118.51.195|144.118.51.195]] 15:42, 13 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
:This has been brought up before, and addressed before, and has also been noted: various erratas since will force a few changes to the build. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 18:03, 13 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
::Indeed. These are possibly the most controversial builds found, although they worked at the time of writing them. WotC, however, errataed them out of existence, so far as I can remember. — [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] <small>([[User talk:OptimizationFanatic|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/OptimizationFanatic|contrib]])</small> 23:02, 31 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
==the ultimate duel==<br />
if these still worked, try to imagine a battle between [[Pun-Pun (DnD Optimized Character Build)|pun-pun]] and them. [[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:21, 3 January 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pun-Pun_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=310584Talk:Pun-Pun (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-01-03T15:22:06Z<p>Hijax: /* sarrukhs */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Posted on the Boards: ==<br />
<br />
This optimized character was taken from the Wizards Boards by permission, the thread related to this spell is: [http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801&page=1&pp=30]<br />
<br />
''Green_Dragon''<br />
<br />
==he scares me==<br />
<br />
let me just say one thing, pun-pun is so good if one were to fight him his CR would be somewhere in the millions, possibly even billions.<br />
<br />
oh, and nice joke and manipulation of abilities and spells<br />
<br />
== Wow... ==<br />
<br />
How long did it take you to think of this?<br />
<br />
== Somthing missing==<br />
I can see one weakness in Pun Pun, he needs Mettle for the save for partial spells that are out there.<br />
<br />
:He can simply grant himself Mettle, Evasion, and anything else that ever shows up in any printed book. No problem there. Alternatively, he'll just grant himself immunity to any effect you could ever create with partial Will/Fortitude spells (poison etc. etc. etc.) --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:18, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== SUPREME Supreme Cleave ==<br />
<br />
Grant Pun-Pun the War Hulk PrC's ability Massive Swing. Since he already has limitless sight and infinite reach (even across planes), you can now use a standard attack action to make one melee attack roll and compare that roll to the AC of every creature you threaten (which is every creature anywhere on any plane). Note that you can be selective about which squares you target, so you can use this for selective genocide to one-hit-kill entire species, or just go ahead and wipe out every living thing everywhere. {{Unsigned|IanUilliam|11:09, 8 January 2007 (MST)}}<br />
<br />
:The question is... Can Pun-Pun do enough damage to kill himself? {{Unsigned|Aarnott|11:19, 8 January 2007 (MST)}}<br />
<br />
::Infinite damage verses infinite health.... Hm... This is a very good optimization ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:19, 8 January 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::My heart weeps after seeing such a thing [[User:Flession|Flession]] 10:14, 24 March 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::1-1=0, so Infinate-Infinate still equals 0 (X-X=0, mathmatical fact). {{Unsigned|84.66.55.0|13:31, 19 May 2007 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
:::::Then he takes himself down to zero... Hopefully he does not do a strenuous action, otherwise he will be okay ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:29, 28 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::WHOA!!!!! 84.66.55.0 --- Infinity is '''''not''''' a real!! You can not add infinity with the same rules you use to add reals---just like you can not add complex numbers with same the rules as reals. Infinity subtract infinity is '''unknown''', '''NOT''' zero!! &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 16:21, 31 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Being a mathematician this is very close to my speciality (measure theory and fractional calculus) and actually ''is'' one of my supervisor's topic (descriptive set theory). The first thing you need to understand about infinity is that it is not unique. There are (literally) an infinite number of infinities. The "infinity" which corresponds with the integers is ''much'' smaller than the "infinity" which corresponds with the reals. So if I take R, and sift out all the intergers, I still get infinity. But if I take the intergers and sift out the reals, I delete my whole set, so I'm left with nothing. To follow up on BD, there is nothing wrong with infinity + infinity (the larger "kills" the smaller), the difference is this operation is not ''invertible'' so we have no subtraction. Thirdly to answer Aarnott, Pun-Pun has regeneration, and can always save himself from massive damage, so no. --[[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]] 19:03, 1 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Note that Pun-Puns HD are infinite in the sense that he can boost them up to any natural number, or lim (a -> inf) HD = inf as a mathematician would put it, where a is the number of actions he takes to boost HD. It means that only if he uses the Infinite Action Loop to boost his HD they truly become infinite. <br />
::And Pun-Pun can't kill himself with a weapon because he is immune to weapon damage and has both Fast Healing and Regeneration. Even if he manages to knock himself out he comes back like the Tarrasque. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 18:11, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==Err...==<br />
<br />
What if I shot him with a huge cannon of godly greatness at point blanc range? Would He die then? This Pun-pun thing is crazy. Also, you need a LINE OF SIGHT in order to make a spot check anyway (evem Pun-pun cannot see through a planet...). And, even with limitless ranks, a natural one ALWAYS FAILS. Any you still cant see someone who rolls a natural twenty for their hide check. {{Unsigned|84.66.55.0|13:24, 19 May 2007 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
:Incorrect. Pending a house rule, there is no automatic pass or fail for skill checks. -- [[User:Flession|Flession]] 17:29, 19 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::In many cases (and when I play) a natural 20 is plus a certain number while a natural 1 is minus a certain number. This variant is described in greater detail in the DMG. However, this variant makes it so pun-pun will ''always'' hit and ''always'' kill. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:45, 22 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Gods above a certain rank don't fail on natural 1s and gods above a higher rank (I think it's 16) automatically get the maximum roll on all attacks, checks and saves. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 03:59, 1 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Plus technically Pun Pun can do a hilarious variety of things to circumvent even this. Having limitless HD, he qualifies for virtually every feat in existence, including luck feats that give you rerolls and feats that mitigate the cost of skill failures. Having limitless or at least gigantic amounts of actions, if he messes up a skill roll he can do it again. He can always take 10 or take 20 for a large proportion of problems, especially due to feats and class abilities that let one do so under the vast majority of conditions. He can also grant himself immunity to every sub-variety of negative event from rolling a 1, infinite rerolls, etc. with Manipulate Form cheese.<br />
::::Regarding LoS limitations, there's a ton of ways around this too. Pun-Pun could grant himself eyes all over his body with x-ray vision. He can abuse various clairvoyance or remote viewing abilities, or just grant himself an extraordinary ability that lets him attack without line of sight. And I believe he could grant himself eyes on his reaching "arms" of essentia or use touch.<br />
<br />
== Ice Assassin? ==<br />
<br />
So, I get this whole Pun-Pun business, but I'm still confounded on one point. The assumption of Pun-Pun's divine rank is depented on his creating the Nut-Puns which is, in turn, dependent on his receiving a divine rank from the god-clones he creates using Ice Assassin. What supplement/thread/board/etc. is this spell/spell-like ability found in? Everything else has a relevant source, but this one is left mysteriously unexplained. --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 10:38, 29 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:A [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/fw Far Corners of the World] article; [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20030124a Snow and Ice: Spells of the Frozen Lands]. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:50, 29 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Most helpful; thank you. --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 11:59, 29 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Is a god a "living, breathing" creature as per Ice Assassin? That's debatable. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:16, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Oddly enough, it doesn't stipulate that the creature to be duplicated need be a living, breathing one; only that the duplicate is a living, breathing copy. Theoretically, you could make a duplicate of an undead, construct, or a non-native outsider. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:08, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Ahh, you're right. The spell is just lovely. Even without Pun-Pun, there are plenty of ways to abuse the spell. The simple fact alone that you can create a copy of someone, which gains all the original's memories, and it is under your command, suddenly puts all knowledge that ever existed at your command. Just command it to tell you what you want to know. The spell doesn't even prevent you from copying people who are already dead, and (arguably) people who are not born yet. The one annoying part, that the copy wants to run away and kill the original, can be easily prevented by commanding it not to. Well, even if the stupid thing does kill the original, you can still use it, but I wonder what happens to the killing urge. Since the critter costs 20,000 gp and 5,000 XP and is very hard to heal, it is actually a waste of ressources to send it out to actually fight someone. I'd rather create a love slave, use it as a decoy for the king who is in my torture chambers, create a duplicate of my son to confuse enemies and paparazzi (remember that you can always command it not to kill him), create a pet archmage, heck, you could even create duplicates of Superman and Batman to finally answer the question of who would win in a duel ...<br />
:::::Another funny fact: It says you can only ''repair'' damage using a certain ritual, but it does not say you can't ''heal'' or ''cure'' it, and that it is immune to Fast Healing and Regeneration. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 17:54, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Those are some good points you bring up, but it does leave one question. In your hypothetical duel between Superman and Batman, how do you plan to get some bit of each of them (one of the material components of Ice Assassin, as per the article linked above)? Furthermore, how is Pun-Pun supposed to go about procuring some bit of a deity with a divine rank of at least one? Or does that come with being a Divine Minion?<br />
<br />
:::::::The easiest way to achieve that is either the Eschew Materials feat or the epic Ignore Material Components. Note that Pun-Pun has unlimited feats from unlimited hit dice. In fact, he can pretty much boost himself to fulfill almost any prerequisite, so he can be assumed to have almost any feat ever published.<br />
:::::::By the way, he does have unlimited hit dice, but I assume these are racial hit dice? Or does he get class levels? --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 23:18, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
::::::::I believe they technically are neither. Rather, they are something like a positive energy version of energy drain made permanent. That wouldn't really count as racial or class, but still has all the benefits of HD.<br />
<br />
== After all ==<br />
<br />
The whole Pun-Pun example should serve as a warning to any game designer out there. The "Manipulate Form" ability was never meant to fall into player hands. But the designers obviously completely underestimated player creativity. Of course there will be a way to get it. So, never ever publish a "do what you want" ability and always check "what is the worst thing that could happen if this falls into the hands of a PC". --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:20, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Thankfully, they fixed this build with a errata. It's no longer possible to do what Pun-Pun does... -- [[User:Flession|Flession]] 07:07, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Did they really? What did they change? --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 23:19, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Native to Toril ==<br />
<br />
I just realized that to pull off Pun-Pun, the PC has to be native to Toril (i.e. the Forgotten Realms Campaign world). It's right in the Manipulate Forms ability. I wonder whether there is a way to become a "native of Toril" when you're in a different campaign setting. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 18:30, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I hope not... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:56, 20 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Gates of Dawn, Players Handbook 2 --[[Colona|Colona]] 18:33, 10 August 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Divine Minion Wildshape Ability ==<br />
<br />
I was reading the Divine Minion template on the Wizards website and it clearly reads: <br />
<br />
"A divine minion can wild shape as an 11th-level druid into one or more animal forms that depend on the deity it serves..."<br />
<br />
Not to mention the under Master of Many Forms it clearly states it requires the Wild Shape CLASS FEATURE, and applying a template to a race makes it a RACIAL ability. If it was open to anyone who can change forms that would have said something like wild shape class feature OR shapechange ability. Otherwise this would open up the class for anything that can shapechange, like a werewolf. I don't think that is what they were thinking of when they wrote up this class.<br />
<br />
Even if you do it, then your effective level for wild shape should be the divine minion level plus the master of many forms level (in this case 4, 1+3=4) and the "as an 11th level druid" should be limited to the specific animals granted by their diety, not to all their shapeshifting. It isn't even a true wildshape ability, since it's limited to a couple of specific animals<br />
<br />
I wouldn't say this was done completely by the rules, but by a creative intrpretation of what CLASS FEATURE means and allowing them to use the "as an 11th level druid" in conjunction with the master of many forms instead of just the divine minion level of 1.<br />
<br />
Here is the source of my information: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a {{unsigned|76.169.169.233|2007-11-19 22:44}}<br />
<br />
:This was actually not made on D&D Wiki. If you think it is broken please bring it up with the creators of this CO on wizards.com. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:59, 25 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Theres another way to stop this specific build with an interpretation of class feature. Technically, the Divine Minion template doesn't grant the Wild Shape feature at all in any form. It grants "fast wild shape" which is a new ability that functions as the Wild Shape ability of an 11th level druid. So the Wild Shape abilities you would get from being an 11th level druid are merely an explanatory way of describing the Fast Wild Shape ability. So you couldn't qualify for Master of Many forms at all, since you don't technically have the Wild Shape ability in any form.<br />
<br />
:::Well this is easy to get around...take levels of Druid. It takes longer, but it works just as well. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 10:06, 29 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Not to mention... ==<br />
<br />
When you wildshape, you change into a RACE, not a CLASS. WuJen is a class and not a race, so how can you give a WuJen ability to yourself?<br />
<br />
You can change into a cockroach and give yourself the ability to live through a nuke, but you can't shapechange into a wizard and give yourself the scribe scroll ability. {{unsigned|76.169.169.233|2007-11-19 23:06}}<br />
<br />
:You are right. Although I do not see why you would need to use it to transform into a cockroach and live through a nuke, as nukes have not yet been invented at the time D&D is usually set. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:54, 20 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::The Wu Jen ability is not granted through wildshape. It's granted via the manipulate form ability. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:26, 20 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::In which case it is fine. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:17, 20 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Munckin. I would kill a player who tried to pull this. ==<br />
<br />
Munchkin. That's all I have to say. SUPER MUNCHKIN. -Fallen.Angel09<br />
<br />
:Many character optimizations are very much Munchkin. That's the point of them. They are usually either intended to just see if you can build one, or are intended for use in high-powered campaigns where the goal is mostly to build as powerful a character as you can. This particular build is so powerful that it's not meant to be played even in a high-powered campaign...it's purely a thought experiment. There's nothing wrong with munchkinism, it's just that there is a proper place for it...this section of the wiki is one such proper place. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 10:03, 29 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== sarrukhs ==<br />
<br />
the only really good question about this thing is: why are there no sarrukhs who have thought of this???<br />
and, by the way, from what book are the sarrukhs? cant find the in ''monster manual''<br />
[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:50, 8 August 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
: Sarrukh's cannot use Manipulate Form on themselves. They're in Serpent Kingdoms. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:38, 12 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::why? is it just stated that they cant do it on themselves? dont hey qualifi as scaled ones? dont it work on sarrukhs? [[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:22, 3 January 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Pun-Pun at Level 1 ==<br />
<br />
Pun-Pun is available at level 1.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Pun-Pun, Ardent 1, 1 flaw<br />
-------------------------<br />
4 ranks in Knowledge (religion)<br />
Trait: Absent-Minded (+1)<br />
Trait: Specialized (Knowledge [Religion) (+1)<br />
Psicrystal Affinity (Sage) (+3)<br />
Call to Mind (+4)<br />
20 Intelligence (17 base + 3 from venerable)... (+5)<br />
Mantle Power: Knowledge (+5)<br />
Mantle Power: Fate (+1)<br />
Psicrystal: Aid Another (+2)<br />
-------------------------<br />
4+1+1+3+4+5+5+1+2 = 26. <br />
<br />
1. Makes the DC 25 knowledge check (even on a natural 1, since natural 1s aren't failures as a knowledge check), learning about Pazazu.<br />
<br />
2. Say Pazazu's name 3 times, ask for a ring of 3 wishes.<br />
<br />
3. Retrain Skill Focus to Assume Supernatural Ability. The premise is that, Wish allows you to mimic any spell 8th or lower, and you can mimic Polymorph. Therefore, you've the ability to assume a new form magically.<br />
<br />
4. Wish > Polymorph Any Object: Psicrystal into a viper.<br />
<br />
5. Wish > Polymorph yourself into a sarrukh. Grant Manipulate Form to your psicrystal...<br />
<br />
6. Proceed with Pun-Pun.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
This requires the following books:<br />
<br />
XPH <br />
CPsi<br />
UA - 2 traits , 1 flaw<br />
Savage Species<br />
Eberron - education feat<br />
FC1 - Pazuzu<br />
Serpent Kingdom - Sarruhk</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:The_Wish_and_the_Word_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=310583Talk:The Wish and the Word (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-01-03T15:21:21Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>Sublime Chord doesn't work the way listed. A sublime chord adds their SC caster levels to their existing arcane class, if there is more than one, they choose one of them. -- Draco18s [[User:144.118.51.195|144.118.51.195]] 15:42, 13 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
:This has been brought up before, and addressed before, and has also been noted: various erratas since will force a few changes to the build. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 18:03, 13 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
::Indeed. These are possibly the most controversial builds found, although they worked at the time of writing them. WotC, however, errataed them out of existence, so far as I can remember. — [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] <small>([[User talk:OptimizationFanatic|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/OptimizationFanatic|contrib]])</small> 23:02, 31 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
==the ultimate duel==<br />
if these still worked, try to imagine a battle between [[pun-pun (DnD Optimized Character Build)|pun-pun]] and them. [[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:21, 3 January 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pun-Pun_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=310582Talk:Pun-Pun (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-01-03T15:21:16Z<p>Hijax: /* sarrukhs */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Posted on the Boards: ==<br />
<br />
This optimized character was taken from the Wizards Boards by permission, the thread related to this spell is: [http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=491801&page=1&pp=30]<br />
<br />
''Green_Dragon''<br />
<br />
==he scares me==<br />
<br />
let me just say one thing, pun-pun is so good if one were to fight him his CR would be somewhere in the millions, possibly even billions.<br />
<br />
oh, and nice joke and manipulation of abilities and spells<br />
<br />
== Wow... ==<br />
<br />
How long did it take you to think of this?<br />
<br />
== Somthing missing==<br />
I can see one weakness in Pun Pun, he needs Mettle for the save for partial spells that are out there.<br />
<br />
:He can simply grant himself Mettle, Evasion, and anything else that ever shows up in any printed book. No problem there. Alternatively, he'll just grant himself immunity to any effect you could ever create with partial Will/Fortitude spells (poison etc. etc. etc.) --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:18, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== SUPREME Supreme Cleave ==<br />
<br />
Grant Pun-Pun the War Hulk PrC's ability Massive Swing. Since he already has limitless sight and infinite reach (even across planes), you can now use a standard attack action to make one melee attack roll and compare that roll to the AC of every creature you threaten (which is every creature anywhere on any plane). Note that you can be selective about which squares you target, so you can use this for selective genocide to one-hit-kill entire species, or just go ahead and wipe out every living thing everywhere. {{Unsigned|IanUilliam|11:09, 8 January 2007 (MST)}}<br />
<br />
:The question is... Can Pun-Pun do enough damage to kill himself? {{Unsigned|Aarnott|11:19, 8 January 2007 (MST)}}<br />
<br />
::Infinite damage verses infinite health.... Hm... This is a very good optimization ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:19, 8 January 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::My heart weeps after seeing such a thing [[User:Flession|Flession]] 10:14, 24 March 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::1-1=0, so Infinate-Infinate still equals 0 (X-X=0, mathmatical fact). {{Unsigned|84.66.55.0|13:31, 19 May 2007 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
:::::Then he takes himself down to zero... Hopefully he does not do a strenuous action, otherwise he will be okay ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:29, 28 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::WHOA!!!!! 84.66.55.0 --- Infinity is '''''not''''' a real!! You can not add infinity with the same rules you use to add reals---just like you can not add complex numbers with same the rules as reals. Infinity subtract infinity is '''unknown''', '''NOT''' zero!! &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 16:21, 31 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Being a mathematician this is very close to my speciality (measure theory and fractional calculus) and actually ''is'' one of my supervisor's topic (descriptive set theory). The first thing you need to understand about infinity is that it is not unique. There are (literally) an infinite number of infinities. The "infinity" which corresponds with the integers is ''much'' smaller than the "infinity" which corresponds with the reals. So if I take R, and sift out all the intergers, I still get infinity. But if I take the intergers and sift out the reals, I delete my whole set, so I'm left with nothing. To follow up on BD, there is nothing wrong with infinity + infinity (the larger "kills" the smaller), the difference is this operation is not ''invertible'' so we have no subtraction. Thirdly to answer Aarnott, Pun-Pun has regeneration, and can always save himself from massive damage, so no. --[[User:Pwsnafu|Pwsnafu]] 19:03, 1 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Note that Pun-Puns HD are infinite in the sense that he can boost them up to any natural number, or lim (a -> inf) HD = inf as a mathematician would put it, where a is the number of actions he takes to boost HD. It means that only if he uses the Infinite Action Loop to boost his HD they truly become infinite. <br />
::And Pun-Pun can't kill himself with a weapon because he is immune to weapon damage and has both Fast Healing and Regeneration. Even if he manages to knock himself out he comes back like the Tarrasque. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 18:11, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==Err...==<br />
<br />
What if I shot him with a huge cannon of godly greatness at point blanc range? Would He die then? This Pun-pun thing is crazy. Also, you need a LINE OF SIGHT in order to make a spot check anyway (evem Pun-pun cannot see through a planet...). And, even with limitless ranks, a natural one ALWAYS FAILS. Any you still cant see someone who rolls a natural twenty for their hide check. {{Unsigned|84.66.55.0|13:24, 19 May 2007 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
:Incorrect. Pending a house rule, there is no automatic pass or fail for skill checks. -- [[User:Flession|Flession]] 17:29, 19 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::In many cases (and when I play) a natural 20 is plus a certain number while a natural 1 is minus a certain number. This variant is described in greater detail in the DMG. However, this variant makes it so pun-pun will ''always'' hit and ''always'' kill. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 23:45, 22 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Gods above a certain rank don't fail on natural 1s and gods above a higher rank (I think it's 16) automatically get the maximum roll on all attacks, checks and saves. [[User:MorkaisChosen|MorkaisChosen]] 03:59, 1 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Plus technically Pun Pun can do a hilarious variety of things to circumvent even this. Having limitless HD, he qualifies for virtually every feat in existence, including luck feats that give you rerolls and feats that mitigate the cost of skill failures. Having limitless or at least gigantic amounts of actions, if he messes up a skill roll he can do it again. He can always take 10 or take 20 for a large proportion of problems, especially due to feats and class abilities that let one do so under the vast majority of conditions. He can also grant himself immunity to every sub-variety of negative event from rolling a 1, infinite rerolls, etc. with Manipulate Form cheese.<br />
::::Regarding LoS limitations, there's a ton of ways around this too. Pun-Pun could grant himself eyes all over his body with x-ray vision. He can abuse various clairvoyance or remote viewing abilities, or just grant himself an extraordinary ability that lets him attack without line of sight. And I believe he could grant himself eyes on his reaching "arms" of essentia or use touch.<br />
<br />
== Ice Assassin? ==<br />
<br />
So, I get this whole Pun-Pun business, but I'm still confounded on one point. The assumption of Pun-Pun's divine rank is depented on his creating the Nut-Puns which is, in turn, dependent on his receiving a divine rank from the god-clones he creates using Ice Assassin. What supplement/thread/board/etc. is this spell/spell-like ability found in? Everything else has a relevant source, but this one is left mysteriously unexplained. --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 10:38, 29 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:A [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/fw Far Corners of the World] article; [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20030124a Snow and Ice: Spells of the Frozen Lands]. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:50, 29 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Most helpful; thank you. --[[User:Rakankou|Rakankou]] 11:59, 29 May 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Is a god a "living, breathing" creature as per Ice Assassin? That's debatable. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:16, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Oddly enough, it doesn't stipulate that the creature to be duplicated need be a living, breathing one; only that the duplicate is a living, breathing copy. Theoretically, you could make a duplicate of an undead, construct, or a non-native outsider. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 09:08, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Ahh, you're right. The spell is just lovely. Even without Pun-Pun, there are plenty of ways to abuse the spell. The simple fact alone that you can create a copy of someone, which gains all the original's memories, and it is under your command, suddenly puts all knowledge that ever existed at your command. Just command it to tell you what you want to know. The spell doesn't even prevent you from copying people who are already dead, and (arguably) people who are not born yet. The one annoying part, that the copy wants to run away and kill the original, can be easily prevented by commanding it not to. Well, even if the stupid thing does kill the original, you can still use it, but I wonder what happens to the killing urge. Since the critter costs 20,000 gp and 5,000 XP and is very hard to heal, it is actually a waste of ressources to send it out to actually fight someone. I'd rather create a love slave, use it as a decoy for the king who is in my torture chambers, create a duplicate of my son to confuse enemies and paparazzi (remember that you can always command it not to kill him), create a pet archmage, heck, you could even create duplicates of Superman and Batman to finally answer the question of who would win in a duel ...<br />
:::::Another funny fact: It says you can only ''repair'' damage using a certain ritual, but it does not say you can't ''heal'' or ''cure'' it, and that it is immune to Fast Healing and Regeneration. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 17:54, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Those are some good points you bring up, but it does leave one question. In your hypothetical duel between Superman and Batman, how do you plan to get some bit of each of them (one of the material components of Ice Assassin, as per the article linked above)? Furthermore, how is Pun-Pun supposed to go about procuring some bit of a deity with a divine rank of at least one? Or does that come with being a Divine Minion?<br />
<br />
:::::::The easiest way to achieve that is either the Eschew Materials feat or the epic Ignore Material Components. Note that Pun-Pun has unlimited feats from unlimited hit dice. In fact, he can pretty much boost himself to fulfill almost any prerequisite, so he can be assumed to have almost any feat ever published.<br />
:::::::By the way, he does have unlimited hit dice, but I assume these are racial hit dice? Or does he get class levels? --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 23:18, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
::::::::I believe they technically are neither. Rather, they are something like a positive energy version of energy drain made permanent. That wouldn't really count as racial or class, but still has all the benefits of HD.<br />
<br />
== After all ==<br />
<br />
The whole Pun-Pun example should serve as a warning to any game designer out there. The "Manipulate Form" ability was never meant to fall into player hands. But the designers obviously completely underestimated player creativity. Of course there will be a way to get it. So, never ever publish a "do what you want" ability and always check "what is the worst thing that could happen if this falls into the hands of a PC". --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:20, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Thankfully, they fixed this build with a errata. It's no longer possible to do what Pun-Pun does... -- [[User:Flession|Flession]] 07:07, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Did they really? What did they change? --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 23:19, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Native to Toril ==<br />
<br />
I just realized that to pull off Pun-Pun, the PC has to be native to Toril (i.e. the Forgotten Realms Campaign world). It's right in the Manipulate Forms ability. I wonder whether there is a way to become a "native of Toril" when you're in a different campaign setting. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 18:30, 3 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I hope not... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:56, 20 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Gates of Dawn, Players Handbook 2 --[[Colona|Colona]] 18:33, 10 August 2008 (PST)<br />
<br />
== Divine Minion Wildshape Ability ==<br />
<br />
I was reading the Divine Minion template on the Wizards website and it clearly reads: <br />
<br />
"A divine minion can wild shape as an 11th-level druid into one or more animal forms that depend on the deity it serves..."<br />
<br />
Not to mention the under Master of Many Forms it clearly states it requires the Wild Shape CLASS FEATURE, and applying a template to a race makes it a RACIAL ability. If it was open to anyone who can change forms that would have said something like wild shape class feature OR shapechange ability. Otherwise this would open up the class for anything that can shapechange, like a werewolf. I don't think that is what they were thinking of when they wrote up this class.<br />
<br />
Even if you do it, then your effective level for wild shape should be the divine minion level plus the master of many forms level (in this case 4, 1+3=4) and the "as an 11th level druid" should be limited to the specific animals granted by their diety, not to all their shapeshifting. It isn't even a true wildshape ability, since it's limited to a couple of specific animals<br />
<br />
I wouldn't say this was done completely by the rules, but by a creative intrpretation of what CLASS FEATURE means and allowing them to use the "as an 11th level druid" in conjunction with the master of many forms instead of just the divine minion level of 1.<br />
<br />
Here is the source of my information: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a {{unsigned|76.169.169.233|2007-11-19 22:44}}<br />
<br />
:This was actually not made on D&D Wiki. If you think it is broken please bring it up with the creators of this CO on wizards.com. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:59, 25 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Theres another way to stop this specific build with an interpretation of class feature. Technically, the Divine Minion template doesn't grant the Wild Shape feature at all in any form. It grants "fast wild shape" which is a new ability that functions as the Wild Shape ability of an 11th level druid. So the Wild Shape abilities you would get from being an 11th level druid are merely an explanatory way of describing the Fast Wild Shape ability. So you couldn't qualify for Master of Many forms at all, since you don't technically have the Wild Shape ability in any form.<br />
<br />
:::Well this is easy to get around...take levels of Druid. It takes longer, but it works just as well. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 10:06, 29 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Not to mention... ==<br />
<br />
When you wildshape, you change into a RACE, not a CLASS. WuJen is a class and not a race, so how can you give a WuJen ability to yourself?<br />
<br />
You can change into a cockroach and give yourself the ability to live through a nuke, but you can't shapechange into a wizard and give yourself the scribe scroll ability. {{unsigned|76.169.169.233|2007-11-19 23:06}}<br />
<br />
:You are right. Although I do not see why you would need to use it to transform into a cockroach and live through a nuke, as nukes have not yet been invented at the time D&D is usually set. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 06:54, 20 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::The Wu Jen ability is not granted through wildshape. It's granted via the manipulate form ability. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:26, 20 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::In which case it is fine. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:17, 20 November 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Munckin. I would kill a player who tried to pull this. ==<br />
<br />
Munchkin. That's all I have to say. SUPER MUNCHKIN. -Fallen.Angel09<br />
<br />
:Many character optimizations are very much Munchkin. That's the point of them. They are usually either intended to just see if you can build one, or are intended for use in high-powered campaigns where the goal is mostly to build as powerful a character as you can. This particular build is so powerful that it's not meant to be played even in a high-powered campaign...it's purely a thought experiment. There's nothing wrong with munchkinism, it's just that there is a proper place for it...this section of the wiki is one such proper place. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 10:03, 29 April 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== sarrukhs ==<br />
<br />
the only really good question about this thing is: why are there no sarrukhs who have thought of this???<br />
and, by the way, from what book are the sarrukhs? cant find the in ''monster manual''<br />
[[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 08:50, 8 August 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
: Sarrukh's cannot use Manipulate Form on themselves. They're in Serpent Kingdoms. --[[User:TK-Squared|TK-Squared]] 08:38, 12 September 2008 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::why? is it just stated that they cant do it on themselves? dont hey qualifi as scaled ones? dont it work on sarrukhs?<br />
<br />
== Pun-Pun at Level 1 ==<br />
<br />
Pun-Pun is available at level 1.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
Pun-Pun, Ardent 1, 1 flaw<br />
-------------------------<br />
4 ranks in Knowledge (religion)<br />
Trait: Absent-Minded (+1)<br />
Trait: Specialized (Knowledge [Religion) (+1)<br />
Psicrystal Affinity (Sage) (+3)<br />
Call to Mind (+4)<br />
20 Intelligence (17 base + 3 from venerable)... (+5)<br />
Mantle Power: Knowledge (+5)<br />
Mantle Power: Fate (+1)<br />
Psicrystal: Aid Another (+2)<br />
-------------------------<br />
4+1+1+3+4+5+5+1+2 = 26. <br />
<br />
1. Makes the DC 25 knowledge check (even on a natural 1, since natural 1s aren't failures as a knowledge check), learning about Pazazu.<br />
<br />
2. Say Pazazu's name 3 times, ask for a ring of 3 wishes.<br />
<br />
3. Retrain Skill Focus to Assume Supernatural Ability. The premise is that, Wish allows you to mimic any spell 8th or lower, and you can mimic Polymorph. Therefore, you've the ability to assume a new form magically.<br />
<br />
4. Wish > Polymorph Any Object: Psicrystal into a viper.<br />
<br />
5. Wish > Polymorph yourself into a sarrukh. Grant Manipulate Form to your psicrystal...<br />
<br />
6. Proceed with Pun-Pun.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
This requires the following books:<br />
<br />
XPH <br />
CPsi<br />
UA - 2 traits , 1 flaw<br />
Savage Species<br />
Eberron - education feat<br />
FC1 - Pazuzu<br />
Serpent Kingdom - Sarruhk</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:The_Wish_and_the_Word_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=310571Talk:The Wish and the Word (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-01-03T14:57:15Z<p>Hijax: </p>
<hr />
<div>Sublime Chord doesn't work the way listed. A sublime chord adds their SC caster levels to their existing arcane class, if there is more than one, they choose one of them. -- Draco18s [[User:144.118.51.195|144.118.51.195]] 15:42, 13 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
:This has been brought up before, and addressed before, and has also been noted: various erratas since will force a few changes to the build. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 18:03, 13 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
::Indeed. These are possibly the most controversial builds found, although they worked at the time of writing them. WotC, however, errataed them out of existence, so far as I can remember. — [[User:OptimizationFanatic|OptimizationFanatic]] <small>([[User talk:OptimizationFanatic|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/OptimizationFanatic|contrib]])</small> 23:02, 31 October 2008 (MDT)<br />
==the ultimate duel==<br />
if these still worked, try to imagine a battle between [[pun-pun (DnD Optimized Character Build)|pun-pun]] and them.</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Warlock_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Build)&diff=310505SRD Warlock (3.5e Optimized Character Build)2009-01-03T12:08:54Z<p>Hijax: New page: {{author |author_name=Hijax |date_created= 3. january, 2009 |status= basically done, but needs more optimization }} == Introduction == This Build uses various high arcanas from the archm...</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Hijax<br />
|date_created= 3. january, 2009<br />
|status= basically done, but needs more optimization<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
<br />
This Build uses various high arcanas from the archmage prestige class to blast things a lot of times per day (more than you will probably need). who said only warlocks could blow everything up constantly<br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
PHB, DMG<br />
<br />
== Game Rule Components ==<br />
<br />
=== Spells, Powers, Soulmelds, Stances, etc... ===<br />
<br />
=== Items ===<br />
<br />
None is needed, though everything that gives a bonus in charisma will be good.<br />
<br />
=== Progression ===<br />
<br />
'''Starting Ability Scores (Before Racial Adjustments):''' Cha 15, Int 14, Dex 13, Wis 12, Str 10, Con 8.<br />
<br />
'''Race (Templates):'''<br />
human, but caneasily be altered for any race.<br />
''Starting Racial Traits:''<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="text-align: left;" {{#vardefine: odd|0}}<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! rowspan="2" | ECL<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class/HD/LA<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Feats<br />
! rowspan="2" | Class<br/>Features<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
|- style="text-align: center;"<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 1st || Sorcerer 1 || +0 || +0 || +0 || +2 || spell focus (evocation), spell focus(any) || familliar || make sure to max out knowledge (arcana) and spellcraft<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 2nd || Sorcerer 2 || +1 || + 0 || 0+ || +3 || || || <br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 3rd || sorcerer 3 || +1 || +1 || + 1|| +3 || Skill focus (spellcraft) || || make sure to keep maxing out knowledge (arcana) and spellcraft<br />
|- class="{{Odd-Even}}"<br />
| 4th || Sorcerer 4 || +2 || +1 || +1 || +4 || || || continue this until level 14, still maxing out knowledge (arcana) and spellcraft. take any good feats. <br />
| 14th || sorcerer 14|| +7/+2 || +4 || +4 || +9 || make sure you have gotten heighten spell. || || you now meat the requirements for Archmage, if you know spells from at least 5 different schools. make sure you do that.<br />
| 15th || sorcerer 14, archmage 1 || +7/+2 || +4 || +4 || +11 || || High arcana || <br />
| 16th || sorcerer 14, archmage 2 || +8/+3 || +4 || +4 || +12 || || High arcana || this high arcana should be spell like ability<br />
| 17th || sorcerer 14, archmage 3 || +8/+3 || +5 || +5 || +12 || || High arcana || <br />
| 18th || sorcerer 14, archmage 4 || +9/+4 || +5 || +5 || +13 || || High arcana || this high arcana should be arcane fire<br />
|}<br />
<br />
=== Other Components ===<br />
<br />
take a few more archmage levels with any high arcana you want, to improve arcane fire damage. a mastery of shaping would be nice, so you dont blow up your friends. the spell like ability could be any sort of destructive spell. anyway, you should get it as many times per day as possible, and if there's room for it, you should also metamagic it.<br />
the arcane fire should be used to burn all your low-level spell slot.<br />
<br />
== Highlights ==<br />
<br />
at the point you reach 18th level, you have 51 spells per day, with a total of 232 spell levels. thats an average of around 4,5 spell levels per spell. since you achmage level is 4, if you channel it all as arcane fire, thats 51 times per day you can deal an average of 8-9D6 damage. this is without bonus spells for charisma. in addition to this, you have your spell like ability. (you will actually get more arcane firepower if you dont take you spell like ability to level 9)<br />
<br />
== Munchkin-Size Me ==<br />
<br />
get a ring of wizardry IIII, and youll have 6 spells and 18 spell levels more for your arcane fire.+++++<br />
<br />
== Side Notes ==<br />
<br />
this is not really an overpowered build (or at least i dont think so). rather, its about never running out of spell power.<br />
<br />
=== Limitations ===<br />
<br />
cant really think of any, since arcane fire isn't a spell.<br />
<br />
=== DM Counters ===<br />
<br />
he have only 45 hp. send in something that break through magical protection, and hes DEAD.<br />
<br />
=== Miscellaneous ===<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Optimized Character Builds|Optimized Character Builds]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Optimized Character Build]]<br />
[[Category:SRD Rules Only]]</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Classes&diff=310318SRD Talk:Classes2009-01-02T20:48:05Z<p>Hijax: /* Automated Preload */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Automated Preload ==<br />
<br />
Pity there's not a Wikiworld Reference Character sheet. Would be helpful for noobs like me. I'd create one if I knew what I was doing. --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 22:08, 15 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:What do you mean by this? Do you mean a "print and fill it in" character sheet? A reference to the various Wikiworld NPCs? --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:25, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::What I'm envisioning (what I was looking for) is a wiki template "use and fill it in" (similar to the create-a-class template), maybe based on the Wizards' "print and fill it in" sheets. --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 07:40, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::See [[DnD NPCs]]. That's the closest thing that we have.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:02, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::That's actually very helpful. At least it gives me some guidellines, thank you. --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 09:45, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::I'm still in the process of making a "use and fill in" type of sheet. The one I am currently working on is just about done, but information about races, classes, and skills have to be put into XML files and I have not implemented a mechanism to add these from the program. Consequently, it is not very flexible for adding new races and classes and such and will only really work for SRD stuff (unless we have a way that the XML files can be uploaded and edited by users here). It does do calculations for you though, which is nice. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 09:59, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::That sounds extremely useful, even without homebrew support. Thank you for working on it! --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 06:03, 17 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::Actually I believe it is only for homebrew support, as the SRD has no need for a template to add things, since everything is already added... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:55, 17 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::::Uhm, i dont see the warlock. or is it just me who is blind? [[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 13:24, 2 January 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::::We're not allowed to include the warlock class on the wiki. --[[User:Daniel Draco|Daniel Draco]] 13:43, 2 January 2009 (MST)<br />
::::::::::Goddamn it! [[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 13:48, 2 January 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
==awww==<br />
awww, the warlock isn't here. now ill have to get complete arcane :( [[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 13:22, 2 January 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Classes&diff=310304SRD Talk:Classes2009-01-02T20:24:08Z<p>Hijax: /* Automated Preload */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Automated Preload ==<br />
<br />
Pity there's not a Wikiworld Reference Character sheet. Would be helpful for noobs like me. I'd create one if I knew what I was doing. --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 22:08, 15 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:What do you mean by this? Do you mean a "print and fill it in" character sheet? A reference to the various Wikiworld NPCs? --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:25, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::What I'm envisioning (what I was looking for) is a wiki template "use and fill it in" (similar to the create-a-class template), maybe based on the Wizards' "print and fill it in" sheets. --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 07:40, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::See [[DnD NPCs]]. That's the closest thing that we have.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:02, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::That's actually very helpful. At least it gives me some guidellines, thank you. --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 09:45, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::I'm still in the process of making a "use and fill in" type of sheet. The one I am currently working on is just about done, but information about races, classes, and skills have to be put into XML files and I have not implemented a mechanism to add these from the program. Consequently, it is not very flexible for adding new races and classes and such and will only really work for SRD stuff (unless we have a way that the XML files can be uploaded and edited by users here). It does do calculations for you though, which is nice. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 09:59, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::That sounds extremely useful, even without homebrew support. Thank you for working on it! --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 06:03, 17 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::Actually I believe it is only for homebrew support, as the SRD has no need for a template to add things, since everything is already added... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:55, 17 January 2008 (MST)<br />
::::::::Uhm, i dont see the warlock. or is it just me who is blind? [[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 13:24, 2 January 2009 (MST)<br />
<br />
==awww==<br />
awww, the warlock isn't here. now ill have to get complete arcane :( [[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 13:22, 2 January 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Classes&diff=310302SRD Talk:Classes2009-01-02T20:22:47Z<p>Hijax: /* Automated Preload */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Automated Preload ==<br />
<br />
Pity there's not a Wikiworld Reference Character sheet. Would be helpful for noobs like me. I'd create one if I knew what I was doing. --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 22:08, 15 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:What do you mean by this? Do you mean a "print and fill it in" character sheet? A reference to the various Wikiworld NPCs? --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 05:25, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::What I'm envisioning (what I was looking for) is a wiki template "use and fill it in" (similar to the create-a-class template), maybe based on the Wizards' "print and fill it in" sheets. --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 07:40, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::See [[DnD NPCs]]. That's the closest thing that we have.--[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:02, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::That's actually very helpful. At least it gives me some guidellines, thank you. --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 09:45, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::I'm still in the process of making a "use and fill in" type of sheet. The one I am currently working on is just about done, but information about races, classes, and skills have to be put into XML files and I have not implemented a mechanism to add these from the program. Consequently, it is not very flexible for adding new races and classes and such and will only really work for SRD stuff (unless we have a way that the XML files can be uploaded and edited by users here). It does do calculations for you though, which is nice. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 09:59, 16 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::::That sounds extremely useful, even without homebrew support. Thank you for working on it! --[[User:Arohanui|Arohanui]] 06:03, 17 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::::Actually I believe it is only for homebrew support, as the SRD has no need for a template to add things, since everything is already added... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 09:55, 17 January 2008 (MST)<br />
<br />
<br />
==awww==<br />
awww, the warlock isn't here. now ill have to get complete arcane :( [[User:Hijax|Hijax]] 13:22, 2 January 2009 (MST)</div>Hijaxhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Thoughts_on_Sorcery_(3.5e_Other)&diff=306950Thoughts on Sorcery (3.5e Other)2008-12-26T13:49:56Z<p>Hijax: New page: __FORCETOC__ ==introduction== the purpose of this project is to rethink sorcery, and to correct some of the massive flaws in the current rules for sorcerers. when im done, sorcery will nev...</p>
<hr />
<div>__FORCETOC__<br />
==introduction==<br />
the purpose of this project is to rethink sorcery, and to correct some of the massive flaws in the current rules for sorcerers. when im done, sorcery will never be the same again.<br />
==the flaws==<br />
here i will try to correct some of the flaws in the rules<br />
===flaw one: inborn magic ===<br />
one of the flaws of sorcerers is, that their magic is inborn. of course, there's nothing wrong with that. the problem is bad way this is implemented. sorcerers' magic is inborn, and they havent chosen to be sorcerers. yet, they strangely get to chose which spell they can cast. on the other hand, the new spells they learn each level are earned through practice, and it seems natural for them to choose these. so this is what we do to sorcerers:<br />
<br />
*choose the spells they know at first level randomly<br />
<br />
well come back to this later.<br />
<br />
there's another problem that arises from the fact that sorcerer's magic is inborn. when you are a sorcerer, you have inborn magic potency, and you have realized it. even if the class you choose at first level isn't sorcerer, you can still multiclass into sorcerer later, you just realize your magic potetial the moment you multiclass sorcerer. however, this mean that actually ALL Pc's have magic potential. because if some dont have, they wouldn't be able to multiclass sorcerer. and everybody can.<br />
in addition, all sorerers are ''born'' with their potential. but a player character isn't born at character creation. the player merely ' pick him up ' at that point. but what if the player early as a child discovers the sorcerous powers, fiddles around with, say, one spell a day, but then leaves it at that and goes to monk school?<br />
so fix these two problems we do two things:<br />
<br />
*you cant multiclass into sorcerer, if you dont have it as your first class you can never get it<br />
*create the following feat:<br />
<br />
'''inborn arcana'''<br />
you have a sorcerous potential<br />
<br />
'''prequisites''': must be taken at first level, you cant be a sorcerer when you take this feat.<br />
'''benefits'''. you either know a single first-level spell and can cast it once a day, or three 0th-level spells and can cast them a total of three times per day. this is spotanous casting, and the spell(s) are choosen randomly. in addition, its possible for you to multiclass into sorcerer.<br />
<br />
===flaw two: spontanous specialication===<br />
sorcerers cant specialice. and goddamnit thats annoying! its totally impossible for a sorcerer to be born with more power for, say, evocation, than other schools of magic. of course, with the basic sorcerer rules, you can just choose to know only evocation spells. but this doesn't make you any more ''powerful'' at evocation, it just mean that you know more ''different'' evocation spells.<br />
and you cant even do that if you take my first rule change into account. to achieve a focused sorcerer, but not make it a clone of wizard specialication, this is what i do:<br />
<br />
*make it possible to sorceres to choose a specialication school<br />
*make all spells from that school count as one spell level lower.<br />
*a specialiced sorcerer must choose FOUR phrohibited schools.<br />
*the sorcerers random starting spells will all be from his specialiced school.<br />
'''''important note: this section hasn't been tested. it may very well be very unbalanced. i'd be very happy if someby who is using my variant rules edit this section after their own experiences. especially the number of phrohibited schools could probably be better.'''''<br />
==improvements==<br />
here i will state some variant rules that, while not really correcting flaws, will still improve your game.<br />
===variant one: Blood is power===<br />
sorcerers may gain their power in many ways, but its often in their blood. while its fine to not ever think about it here's a few feats to distinguish between different sources of sorcerous power. if you havent got any of these feats, you just havent discovered where your power comes from yet:<br />
<br />
'''celestial blood'''<br />
you have realized that your sorcerous powers come from celestial blood<br />
'''prequisites:''' must be a sorcerer, must be good aligned.<br />
'''benefit:''' spell with the good descriptor (including ones cast to summon good creatures) are cast at +1 caster level<br />
<br />
'''fiendish blood'''<br />
you have realized that your sorcerous powers come from fiendish blood<br />
'''prequisites:''' must be a sorcerer, must be evil aligned.<br />
'''benefit:''' spell with the evil descriptor (including ones cast to summon evil creatures) are cast at +1 caster level<br />
<br />
'''draconic blood'''<br />
you have realized that your sorcerous powers come from draconic blood<br />
'''prequisites:''' must be a sorcerer.<br />
'''benefit:''' choose a dragon type from the table below, for which you meet the alignment requirements. you gain the benefits stated for that dragon type.<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="D20"<br />
|-<br />
|+ dragon blood type<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | || dragon vareity || prequisites || benefits<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | || red dragon || evil alignment || fire spells at +1<br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | || silver dragon || good alignment || cold spells at cater level +1 <br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | || blue dragon || evil alignment || create/destroy water like a blue dragon 1 time per day <br />
|- style="white-space: nowrap;"<br />
! style="text-align: left;" | || bronze dragon || good alignment || can speak with animals<br />
|}</div>Hijax