https://www.dandwiki.com/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Cuthalion&feedformat=atomD&D Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-28T20:16:34ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.35.8https://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Cuthalion/Colors&diff=188398User talk:Cuthalion/Colors2007-12-22T18:13:29Z<p>Cuthalion: /* Colors */ RGB</p>
<hr />
<div>== Colors ==<br />
<br />
I'm not colorblind, despite what my wife might say. To my eye, the following are all quite easy to see:<br />
<br />
* This is <span style="color: #BA0000;">#BA0000; red (current scheme -- non-existent)</span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #8A2BE2;">#8A2BE2; BlueViolet </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #D2691E;">#D2691E; Chocolate </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FF7F50;">#FF7F50; Coral </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #DC143C;">#DC143C; Crimson </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #B8860B;">#B8860B; DarkGoldenRod </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FF8C00;">#FF8C00; DarkOrange </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #00CED1;">#00CED1; DarkTurquoise </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #9400D3;">#9400D3; DarkViolet </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FF1493;">#FF1493; DeepPink </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #00BFFF;">#00BFFF; DeepSkyBlue </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #1E90FF;">#1E90FF; DodgerBlue </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FF00FF;">#FF00FF; Fuchsia </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #CD5C5C;">#CD5C5C; IndianRed </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #20B2AA;">#20B2AA; LightSeaGreen </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FF00FF;">#FF00FF; Magenta </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #BA55D3;">#BA55D3; MediumOrchid </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #9370D8;">#9370D8; MediumPurple </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #3CB371;">#3CB371; MediumSeaGreen </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #7B68EE;">#7B68EE; MediumSlateBlue </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #C71585;">#C71585; MediumVioletRed </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FF4500;">#FF4500; OrangeRed </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #D87093;">#D87093; PaleVioletRed</span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FF0000;">#FF0000; Red </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FF6347;">#FF6347; Tomato </span> text.<br />
<br />
The following are easy to see, but harder to read on this background (and my current monitor):<br />
<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FAA700;">#FAA700; yellow-orange (current scheme -- active)</span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #00FFFF;">#00FFFF; Cyan </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #7FFFD4;">#7FFFD4; Aquamarine </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #DEB887;">#DEB887; BurlyWood </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #7FFF00;">#7FFF00; Chartreuse </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #6495ED;">#6495ED; CornflowerBlue </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #A9A9A9;">#A9A9A9; DarkGray </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #BDB76B;">#BDB76B; DarkKhaki </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #E9967A;">#E9967A; DarkSalmon </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #8FBC8F;">#8FBC8F; DarkSeaGreen </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FFD700;">#FFD700; Gold </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #DAA520;">#DAA520; GoldenRod </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #ADFF2F;">#ADFF2F; GreenYellow </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FF69B4;">#FF69B4; HotPink </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #7CFC00;">#7CFC00; LawnGreen </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #ADD8E6;">#ADD8E6; LightBlue </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #F08080;">#F08080; LightCoral </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FFB6C1;">#FFB6C1; LightPink </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FFA07A;">#FFA07A; LightSalmon </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #87CEFA;">#87CEFA; LightSkyBlue </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #B0C4DE;">#B0C4DE; LightSteelBlue </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #00FF00;">#00FF00; Lime </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #32CD32;">#32CD32; LimeGreen</span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #66CDAA;">#66CDAA; MediumAquaMarine </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #00FA9A;">#00FA9A; MediumSpringGreen </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #48D1CC;">#48D1CC; MediumTurquoise </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FFA500;">#FFA500; Orange </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #DA70D6;">#DA70D6; Orchid </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #CD853F;">#CD853F; Peru </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #DDA0DD;">#DDA0DD; Plum </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #BC8F8F;">#BC8F8F; RosyBrown </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FA8072;">#FA8072; Salmon </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #F4A460;">#F4A460; SandyBrown </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #87CEEB;">#87CEEB; SkyBlue </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #00FF7F;">#00FF7F; SpringGreen </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #D2B48C;">#D2B48C; Tan </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #40E0D0;">#40E0D0; Turquoise </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #EE82EE;">#EE82EE; Violet </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #9ACD32;">#9ACD32; YellowGreen </span> text.<br />
<br />
The following are not quite as visible, but adequate:<br />
<br />
* This is <span style="color: #002BB8;">#002BB8; blue (current scheme -- interwiki links)</span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #005896;">#005896; green-blue (current scheme -- top bar)</span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #A55858;">#A55858; light brown (current scheme -- visited non-existent)</span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #8B008B;">#8B008B; DarkMagenta </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #B22222;">#B22222; FireBrick </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #228B22;">#228B22; ForestGreen </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #800000;">#800000; Maroon </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #4169E1;">#4169E1; RoyalBlue </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #8B4513;">#8B4513; SaddleBrown </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #6A5ACD;">#6A5ACD; SlateBlue </span> text.<br />
<br />
The following are too hard to see when scanning a page:<br />
* This is <span style="color: #006600;">#006600; green (current scheme -- ???)</span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #5C3317;">#5C3317; dark grey (current scheme -- ???)</span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #5A3696;">#5A3696; purple (current scheme -- visted interwiki)</span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #660000;">#660000; brown (current scheme -- ???)</span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #808000;">#808000; Olive </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #6B8E23;">#6B8E23; OliveDrab </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #2E8B57;">#2E8B57; SeaGreen </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #008080;">#008080; Teal </span> text.<br />
<br />
The following are too hard to read on this background:<br />
<br />
* This is <span style="color: #F0E68C;">#F0E68C; Khaki </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #98FB98;">#98FB98; PaleGreen </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #AFEEEE;">#AFEEEE; PaleTurquoise </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #C0C0C0;">#C0C0C0; Silver </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #D8BFD8;">#D8BFD8; Thistle </span> text.<br />
* This is <span style="color: #FFFF00;">#FFFF00; Yellow </span> text.<br />
<br />
This is only a selection of [http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_colornames.asp standard colors].<br />
<br />
(This pertains to the discussion on [[Talk:Main_Page#Link_Colors|link colors]]. Presumably I'll find other uses for it later.)<br />
<br />
--[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 09:27, 9 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:By the way, I have the final say of the link colors on this site and I am red-green colorblind. If you want to make a color decision you may want to make sure it looks good for red-green colorblind people because that is how I see it ''':P'''. The link colors may need to be changed, however for me they look good (I don't know if they look bad for non-red-green colorblind people). Do they really look that bad? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:23, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Yes, they look that bad, at least to me. The <span style="color: #5a3696;">purple</span>, in particular, is barely distinguishable from surrounding text, and that's a major problem.<br />
<br />
::You saw my [[Talk:Main_Page#Link_Colors|proposed scheme]], right? None of the current colors use green, so none of my suggestions do, either. How do the <span style="color: #ba0000;">links to non-existent pages</span> look to you, either in the <span style="color: #ba0000;">current scheme</span> or my <span style="color: #DC143C;">proposed scheme</span>? --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 12:02, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::: I have no problem with the identifying the links, and for me, that's part of the problem. From my point of view the link colors clash horribly with the surrounding colors, so they stand out, but they're unpleasant at which to look. The current link colors are the same ones from the <span class="plainlinks">[http://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Cuthalion&useskin=monobook monobook skin]</span>. I've tried tackling the link colors myself, and as one might imagine, when I find a set of colors that are readable, I have trouble distinguishing them from the surrounding text. Unfortunately, (from my point of view) your [[Talk:Main Page#Link Colors|proposed scheme]] is just a polarization of the current link colors. What stands out for the current scheme really stands out with your scheme. And at the same time, what's merely unpleasant to see becomes almost painful to the eyes. &mdash;[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:41, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Hmm. So, you and I have opposite goals. I don't know what to say to that. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 13:20, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::::: Possibly, but I wouldn't say that they're mutually exclusive. The trick would be to find link colors that complement the other colors of the site, but are still easy to identify. You've put up a nifty little color chart that gives everyone a good idea of what works and what doesn't based on your criteria. Right now, I'm taking <span style="color: #8b4513;">SaddleBrown</span> for a spin for my view interwiki links. I'll use it for a day and see how I like it. &mdash;[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 15:39, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::::: So, you're basically saying you want something that is aesthetically pleasing. Sheesh! I'll bet you only wear matched socks, too. ;) --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 10:01, 15 February 2007 (MST)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Cuthalion&diff=132862User talk:Cuthalion2007-09-24T14:07:03Z<p>Cuthalion: delete MOI</p>
<hr />
<div>==MoI==<br />
<br />
{{Messages of Interest|messages=<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Welcome to D&D Wiki== <br />
<br />
Hello {{PAGENAME}}, and welcome to D&D Wiki! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like D&D Wiki and decide to stay. I am the owner of the site, and if you have a question feel free to ask me, however when contacting anyone on D&D Wiki through talk pages please sign your name using four tildes <nowiki>(~~~~)</nowiki>; this will automatically produce your name and the date. Also, if you want to help D&D Wiki but just don't know how [http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Green_Dragon&action=edit&section=new drop me a note] and I'll see what I can do. However, when dropping me a note please tell me how much time you would like to spend working, how well you know the Wiki Format, and how well you know D&D. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a D&D Wikian! If you need help ask me on my talk page, or just right here. Again, welcome! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:27, 4 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Thank you. So you'll end up reading this? I'm not used to communicating by wiki.<br />
<br />
:To answer your questions:<br />
<br />
:#I'm a minimally competent wiki user, and a fast learner.<br />
:#I used to know everything there was to know about AD&D 1st & 2nd editions. I know most of what there is to read about 3.5, but have comparatively little experience in practice -- I've only really played one character in one campaign.<br />
:#I'll have to play it by ear how much time I put into it. One nice thing about wiki is you can add things whenever you feel like it. Are there particular projects you're looking for help on?<br />
:FYI, I'm quite attached to [http://www.d20srd.org/ The Hypertext d20 SRD]. It's going to be hard to switch, but the wiki advantages obviously make it worth it. ''[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 10:51, 5 February 2007 (MST)''<br />
<br />
::I will end up reading this, I am a Recent Changes patroller and I go through ''every'' edit that happens on D&D Wiki. Also. if you really want to help you can help with the [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]]. I hope you decide to help, and the [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]] is a very good way to understand how items should be added and the correct formatting. I hope you like D&D Wiki, and I am glad your here. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:08, 5 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== NBoF ==<br />
<br />
What is your relationship with the NBoF? I am just asking because if you are part of the team, or something along those lines, I am wondering a couple things. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:36, 4 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:No, I have no affiliation with NBoF, nor any vested interest in seeing them publicized. I only found out about them a couple of days ago through this wiki. --''[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 10:56, 5 February 2007 (MST)''<br />
<br />
::Oh, ok. Thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:08, 5 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Colors ==<br />
<br />
Moved to: [[User talk:Cuthalion/Colors]].<br />
<br />
== Screwed up? ==<br />
<br />
Did I screw up my user talk page? I don't see either contents or messages of interest. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 11:49, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
: Okay, the contents just showed up. That's weird. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 11:50, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:: The contents have to have at least four headers before it shows up. The messages of interest will only show up if there's at least one MoI. &mdash;[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:41, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::: That explains it, thanks. Why four? How hard would it be to make this configurable? --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 12:43, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Don't know. I'd like to think the designers of [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki MediaWiki] produced the magic number four from the results (wish I could stop typing "resluts") of a lot of research, and extensive human factors testing, but I don't know whether or not that was actually the case. As far as determining the difficulty of making configurable, someone would have to dive into the MediaWiki code for that (or already know it). &mdash;[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:03, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== WikiRPS ==<br />
<br />
Moved to: [[User talk:Cuthalion/WikiRPS]].<br />
<br />
See also: [[wikirps:|WikiRPS]].<br />
<br />
== Formatting - The Improvisor (DnD Prestige Class) ==<br />
<br />
Hello. I am wondering if you would mind doing me a favor. Recently I have not had that much time, as seen my how little I went on over the weekend. Anyway, because of this lack of going on D&D Wiki I have a lot to catch up on here. So, I am wondering if you would mind formatting [[The Improvisor (DnD Prestige Class)]]. I am asking you for a couple of reasons. One is that I am sure you know formatting rather well and will make it accessible and good looking. Anyway, if you could format it it would mean a lot to me. Is this possible? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:49, 23 April 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Sure, I can do this.<br />
:#Have the formatting standards been finalized? I presume virtually everything that applies to base classes would also apply to prestige classes. It would be annoying to have to reformat it again in two weeks.<br />
:#Do you prefer not to ask the original author?<br />
:&ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 13:04, 24 April 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::A couple things. No the formatting standards have not been finalized, however they only apply to base classes and before any PrC's get formatted the base classes will get a work over. Anyway, the real reason I am asking you is because right now this PrC is inaccessible and it would be good if it was made accessible. Also no, one does not need to ask the authors permission to format something (I know, you may not like this.... I hope I am not offending you again....) --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:34, 24 April 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::No offense taken. A central part of the wiki concept is opening your work up to others for improvement. My question was whether it's better to make improvements yourself or ask the original author to make them, and I could argue either way on that.<br />
:::I should be able to get to it today. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 07:41, 25 April 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Personally I think it is just better to take it into ones own hands. Anyway, thanks again it was very nice of you to fomat that. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:58, 30 April 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Acrobatic_Attack_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=132860Talk:Acrobatic Attack (3.5e Feat)2007-09-24T14:05:50Z<p>Cuthalion: /* Feat Mechanics */ clarifications</p>
<hr />
<div>== Modified feat ==<br />
<br />
This feat is inspired by [[Acrobatic_Strike_%28DnD_General_Feat%29|Acrobatic Strike]], although better balanced IMHO. I'm not sure whether that makes it OGL or GNU. Please add any appropriate citations. Constructive comments are also welcome. --''[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 22:00, 5 February 2007 (MST)''<br />
<br />
:GNU FDL (Gnu Free Documentation license) vs OGL (Open Game License). OGL can be used on this site however if you do such a thing it cannot be changed henceforth, even though you are the author. The OGL is restrictive and not that good compared to the GNU FDL (everything that is not OGL on this site is licensed under the GNU FDL). The GNU FDL simply says "Do what you want just make sure to keep it under the GNU FDL" which can lead to people stealing material and posting it as their own, however it grants more freedom to edit which I think it important. If you really want you can have this to be under the OGL, however you will never be able to change it again. Would you like me to change the license on this to the OGL? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:11, 7 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::Certainly not! I just wasn't sure what the legal requirements are for basing stuff on OGL stuff. I want to give credit where credit is due. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 12:17, 7 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::Oh... I see. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:39, 7 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Repeated redundancy ==<br />
<br />
That header line is redundant, isn't it? Oh, well. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 12:52, 7 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:It is, but thats how it is on every feat, and it has grown on me... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:10, 7 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Feat Mechanics ==<br />
<br />
I like the concept of this feat, however, on first read, the mechanics seem a bit muddled. Perhaps it is just a matter of verbiage.<br />
<br />
I think the requirements (more ranks of Tumble and the Acrobatic feat) are good. It moves the earliest you can take this feat up to 5th level (8 ranks).<br />
<br />
Now if I understand it correctly, the intent is that the character using this feat must move to "activate" it. That's okay, but what if you don't want to move from your current location? Or maybe you can't really move from there and still reach the intended target? What if you are currently standing in an area of hampered movement and can't tumble? I get the impression that the intent is that the attacker flips, twists, and spins (or whatever) to essentially distract/confuse the target, then strikes. Does the attack really have to move from their current location to do that? If the intent was to require the attack to be mobile, that's fine, I think that it should be more explicitly stated. If not, that's fine as well. Either way, some clarification on the wording could help.<br />
<br />
I'm not sure why it is an opposed Tumble Check. Or perhaps I'm just thinking about all of the character with no ranks in Tumble (it is a trained only check). If you have no ranks in Tumble do you make a Dexterity check? Perhaps it should be worded that the attacker makes a Tumble check and the defender makes a Dexterity check and adds their BAB and any ranks or bonuses they have to Tumble. Or maybe it should read the defender makes a Tumble check and adds their BAB and if they have no ranks in Tumble, they make a Dexterity check and add their BAB. I have no problem with the rolls being made, I'm just thinking of making the wording flow more clearly.<br />
<br />
From that point out, the feat reads well. I think it is a really cool feat!<br />
<br />
--[[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]] 12:20, 21 September 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
: [[User:Skwyd|Skwyd]] -- thanks for the suggestions. Is this better? Feel free to edit as you deem appropriate. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 08:05, 24 September 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Acrobatic_Attack_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=132859Acrobatic Attack (3.5e Feat)2007-09-24T14:03:42Z<p>Cuthalion: clarifications</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author|author_name=Cuthalion|date_created=02/05/07|status=Finished}}<br />
<div class="supplement"><br />
__NOTOC__<br />
===Acrobatic Attack [General]===<br />
<br />
You can use acrobatic maneuvers to get around an opponent's defenses.<br />
<br />
=====Prerequisites=====<br />
<br />
[[Dex]] 13, [[Acrobatic]], [[Tumble]] 8 ranks.<br />
<br />
=====Benefit=====<br />
<br />
As part of a [[move]] action, you may make a [[Tumble]] check [[opposed]] by your target's [[Tumble]] check (or [[Dexterity]] check -- see [[#Special|below]]). Your target receives its [[base attack bonus]] as a bonus to its roll, along with any other applicable modifiers (unless [[untrained]] -- see [[#Special|below]]). If you succeed, your target is denied its [[Defenses_(MSRD)#Dexterity_Modifier|Dexterity bonus]] to AC (if any) for the next [[melee]] attack you make against it during the same round. If you fail, you fall [[prone]] in your destination square.<br />
<br />
=====Special=====<br />
<br />
A [[fighter]] may select Acrobatic Attack as one of his [[fighter bonus feats]].<br />
<br />
For the purposes of this feat only, a defending character who does not have ranks in [[Tumble]] may make an [[untrained]] skill check, which amounts to an unmodified [[Dexterity]] check. However, an untrained character does not receive the normal bonus for [[BAB]].<br />
<br />
You do not need to move to use this feat, but you do need to take a [[move]] action -- you can jump and spin around in place.<br />
<br />
----<br />
{|<br />
| Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ||->[[DnD Feats]]||-> [[DnD General Feats]]<br />
|-<br />
| &nbsp; || &nbsp; ||-> [[DnD Fighter Feats]]||-> [[DnD Melee Attack Fighter Feats]]<br />
|}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:Feat]]<br />
[[Category:General Feat]]<br />
[[Category:Fighter Bonus Feat]]<br />
[[Category:Tumble Feat]]<br />
</div></div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Move&diff=132857Move2007-09-24T14:01:56Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[SRD:Move Actions (Rules)#Move]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Opposed&diff=132856Opposed2007-09-24T14:01:04Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[SRD:Using Skills (Rules)#Opposed Checks]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Melee&diff=132855Melee2007-09-24T13:59:53Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[SRD:Standard Actions (Rules)#Melee Attacks]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Untrained&diff=132852Untrained2007-09-24T13:49:51Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[SRD:Using Skills (Rules)#Untrained Skill Checks]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Base_Attack_Bonus_(Term)&diff=130955Base Attack Bonus (Term)2007-09-16T00:35:47Z<p>Cuthalion: corrected plurals</p>
<hr />
<div>Your '''base attack bonus''' (commonly referred to as '''BAB''' by the d20 community) is an attack roll bonus derived from character [[class]] and level. Base attack bonuses increase at different rates for different character classes. A character gains a second attack per round when his base attack bonus reaches +6, a third with a base attack bonus of +11 or higher, and a fourth with a base attack bonus of +16 or higher. Base attack bonuses gained from different classes, such as for a [[multiclass]] character, stack.<br />
<br />
A character’s base attack bonus does not grant any more attacks after reaching +16, cannot be less than +0, and does not increase due to class levels after character level reaches 20th.<br />
<br />
A minimum base attack bonus is required for certain [[Feat#Prerequisite|feat]]s.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
[[Category:Term]]<br />
[[Category:Rule]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Discussion:Predictions_for_4th_edition&diff=127540Discussion:Predictions for 4th edition2007-08-31T02:45:01Z<p>Cuthalion: header</p>
<hr />
<div>== Predictions for 4th edition == <br />
<br />
; Rules<br />
<br />
On this page, you can make predictions and educated guesses about what 4th edition will be (or won't be) like.<br />
<br />
You get<br />
* 1 point for each prediction that turns out to be true<br />
* 2 points if you were the first to predict it here<br />
* 0 points if it was already officially announced before you wrote it<br />
* -1 point if you were wrong.<br />
<br />
Please put your predictions in an ordered list (with #).<br />
<br />
Good Luck! --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 21:11, 20 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Mkill|Mkill]]&nbsp;<small><small>21:11, 20 August 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
# There will be 11 base classes in the PHB, and it will be the same classes as in 3rd edition.<br />
# Tieflings are added to base races (0 points)<br />
# The following are gone: 5 ft. step, full-round action, skill points, skill synergy<br />
# The much awaited online game table will be buggy and boring, and most DMs you'll find there suck.<br />
# People will start "How to save the Fighter" threads again 2 months after 4th ed is out.<br />
# No more Mialee.<br />
# No more Attacks of Opportunity for moving out of an opponents square.<br />
# A spell-point system will be introduced.<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]]&nbsp;<small><small>06:40, 21 August 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
# Spells will stay more useful for the life of the character.<br />
# Many spells will be converted to class features, such as "mage armor."<br />
# A best class list will be assembled by the boards. Whatever falls into #10 and #11 will be deemed to "suck", even if that difference is only a 1% power drop.<br />
# The Magic Item Compendium will be the model for gaining equipment.<br />
# No unregulated abilities dealing with creatures or cohorts.<br />
# Greatly reduced amnistrivia. Every entry will be geared towards flavor or adventure.<br />
# A follow-on book for Psionics. (0 points)<br />
# A follow-on book for "tech".<br />
# Too many typos and errata. (For some, one is too many.)<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]]&nbsp;<small><small>05:03, 24 August 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
I see a problem with the soring system. Observe;<br />
<br />
# The Three rule books will have '''less''' than 3000 pages in total.<br />
# Each rule book will have '''less''' than 999 pages.<br />
# There will '''not''' be a section on "Nerdomancy" in any of the books.<br />
# Monstrous Spiders will '''not''' have 10 legs now.<br />
# The barbarian will '''not''' have a name change to "frenzied maniac".<br />
# There will '''not''' be a PrC called pink bezerker in the Dunnjun Maasturrs Gid (see guess after the next one).<br />
# There will '''not''' be a PrC called Rinoserous warrior in the Dunnjun Maasturrs Gid (see thre next guess).<br />
# The titles of the core rule books will '''not''' be mispelt on the covers.<br />
# There will '''not''' be rules for an "M16 Semi-Automatic Shotgun" in the PLayerr's Handdbuk (see previous).<br />
# There will not be an entry in the Moonsterr Manule (see the one before the last one) for Clarkson, May and Hammond.<br />
<br />
As you can see, I have just got myself a garenteed 20 points. You might want to alter the scoring system so that points cannot bde gained in this way.<br />
<br />
:Actually, it totally doesn't matter how you cheat here, as there is nothing to win. You can keep your 20 points if this is what makes you happy. Although I do hope they will put a Pink Berserker PrC in the DMG just to prove you wrong. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 07:44, 26 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::doesn't make me happy. I don't like power gaming, I was just pointing out that the scoring system can be easily abused... This wasn't added to score the most points. In fact, I personally think those guesses are worth 0. But it would be funny to have a pink bezerker (Aarnott made that one up). What would be better would be the last one... But these where added as a laugh, not an honest attempt to score the most points. Treat my 20 points as nullified. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:05, 26 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small>&nbsp;<small><small>20:44, 30 August 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
# Far fewer base classes, around a half-dozen.<br />
# Talent trees.<br />
# Swift actions.<br />
# Full turn = 1 swift action, 1 move action, 1 standard action.<br />
# Surprise round = 1 standard action (only).<br />
# You're only flat-footed if you're surprised.<br />
# Fewer skills, with similar skills grouped together.<br />
# No more skill points per level, just Yes/No (have the skill or not).<br />
# Initiative is now a skill.<br />
# No multiclassing penalty.<br />
# Weapon group proficiencies.<br />
# Various penalties (e.g. non-proficiency) are now -5 instead of -4.<br />
# Action points.<br />
<br />
FYI, I haven't read any of the previews, but I do have [[w:Star Wars Roleplaying Game (Wizards of the Coast)#Saga Edition|Star Wars Saga Edition]].<br />
<br />
<!-- Copy the following line to answer:<br />
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=== ~~~&nbsp;<small><small>~~~~~</small></small> ===<br />
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--><br />
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<br />
{{Forumfooter|Discussion}}<br />
__NOTOC__</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Discussion:Predictions_for_4th_edition&diff=127539Discussion:Predictions for 4th edition2007-08-31T02:44:37Z<p>Cuthalion: header</p>
<hr />
<div>== Predictions for 4th edition == <br />
<br />
; Rules<br />
<br />
On this page, you can make predictions and educated guesses about what 4th edition will be (or won't be) like.<br />
<br />
You get<br />
* 1 point for each prediction that turns out to be true<br />
* 2 points if you were the first to predict it here<br />
* 0 points if it was already officially announced before you wrote it<br />
* -1 point if you were wrong.<br />
<br />
Please put your predictions in an ordered list (with #).<br />
<br />
Good Luck! --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 21:11, 20 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Mkill|Mkill]]&nbsp;<small><small>21:11, 20 August 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
# There will be 11 base classes in the PHB, and it will be the same classes as in 3rd edition.<br />
# Tieflings are added to base races (0 points)<br />
# The following are gone: 5 ft. step, full-round action, skill points, skill synergy<br />
# The much awaited online game table will be buggy and boring, and most DMs you'll find there suck.<br />
# People will start "How to save the Fighter" threads again 2 months after 4th ed is out.<br />
# No more Mialee.<br />
# No more Attacks of Opportunity for moving out of an opponents square.<br />
# A spell-point system will be introduced.<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]]&nbsp;<small><small>06:40, 21 August 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
# Spells will stay more useful for the life of the character.<br />
# Many spells will be converted to class features, such as "mage armor."<br />
# A best class list will be assembled by the boards. Whatever falls into #10 and #11 will be deemed to "suck", even if that difference is only a 1% power drop.<br />
# The Magic Item Compendium will be the model for gaining equipment.<br />
# No unregulated abilities dealing with creatures or cohorts.<br />
# Greatly reduced amnistrivia. Every entry will be geared towards flavor or adventure.<br />
# A follow-on book for Psionics. (0 points)<br />
# A follow-on book for "tech".<br />
# Too many typos and errata. (For some, one is too many.)<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]]&nbsp;<small><small>05:03, 24 August 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
I see a problem with the soring system. Observe;<br />
<br />
# The Three rule books will have '''less''' than 3000 pages in total.<br />
# Each rule book will have '''less''' than 999 pages.<br />
# There will '''not''' be a section on "Nerdomancy" in any of the books.<br />
# Monstrous Spiders will '''not''' have 10 legs now.<br />
# The barbarian will '''not''' have a name change to "frenzied maniac".<br />
# There will '''not''' be a PrC called pink bezerker in the Dunnjun Maasturrs Gid (see guess after the next one).<br />
# There will '''not''' be a PrC called Rinoserous warrior in the Dunnjun Maasturrs Gid (see thre next guess).<br />
# The titles of the core rule books will '''not''' be mispelt on the covers.<br />
# There will '''not''' be rules for an "M16 Semi-Automatic Shotgun" in the PLayerr's Handdbuk (see previous).<br />
# There will not be an entry in the Moonsterr Manule (see the one before the last one) for Clarkson, May and Hammond.<br />
<br />
As you can see, I have just got myself a garenteed 20 points. You might want to alter the scoring system so that points cannot bde gained in this way.<br />
<br />
:Actually, it totally doesn't matter how you cheat here, as there is nothing to win. You can keep your 20 points if this is what makes you happy. Although I do hope they will put a Pink Berserker PrC in the DMG just to prove you wrong. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 07:44, 26 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::doesn't make me happy. I don't like power gaming, I was just pointing out that the scoring system can be easily abused... This wasn't added to score the most points. In fact, I personally think those guesses are worth 0. But it would be funny to have a pink bezerker (Aarnott made that one up). What would be better would be the last one... But these where added as a laugh, not an honest attempt to score the most points. Treat my 20 points as nullified. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:05, 26 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
=== &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small>&nbsp;<small><small>20:44, 30 August 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
# Far fewer base classes, around a half-dozen.<br />
# Talent trees.<br />
# Swift actions.<br />
# Full turn = 1 swift action, 1 move action, 1 standard action.<br />
# Surprise round = 1 standard action (only).<br />
# You're only flat-footed if you're surprised.<br />
# Fewer skills, with similar skills grouped together.<br />
# No more skill points per level, just Yes/No (have the skill or not).<br />
# Initiative is now a skill.<br />
# No multiclassing penalty.<br />
# Weapon group proficiencies.<br />
# Various penalties (e.g. non-proficiency) are now -5 instead of -4.<br />
# Action points.<br />
<br />
FYI, I haven't read any of the previews, but I do have [[w:Star Wars Roleplaying Game (Wizards of the Coast)#Saga Edition|Star Wars Saga Edition]].<br />
<br />
<!-- Copy the following line to answer:<br />
<br />
=== ~~~&nbsp;<small><small>~~~~~</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
--><br />
<br />
<br />
{{Forumfooter|Discussion}}<br />
__NOTOC__</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Discussion:Predictions_for_4th_edition&diff=127537Discussion:Predictions for 4th edition2007-08-31T02:43:43Z<p>Cuthalion: ~~~~</p>
<hr />
<div>== Predictions for 4th edition == <br />
<br />
; Rules<br />
<br />
On this page, you can make predictions and educated guesses about what 4th edition will be (or won't be) like.<br />
<br />
You get<br />
* 1 point for each prediction that turns out to be true<br />
* 2 points if you were the first to predict it here<br />
* 0 points if it was already officially announced before you wrote it<br />
* -1 point if you were wrong.<br />
<br />
Please put your predictions in an ordered list (with #).<br />
<br />
Good Luck! --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 21:11, 20 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Mkill|Mkill]]&nbsp;<small><small>21:11, 20 August 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
# There will be 11 base classes in the PHB, and it will be the same classes as in 3rd edition.<br />
# Tieflings are added to base races (0 points)<br />
# The following are gone: 5 ft. step, full-round action, skill points, skill synergy<br />
# The much awaited online game table will be buggy and boring, and most DMs you'll find there suck.<br />
# People will start "How to save the Fighter" threads again 2 months after 4th ed is out.<br />
# No more Mialee.<br />
# No more Attacks of Opportunity for moving out of an opponents square.<br />
# A spell-point system will be introduced.<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]]&nbsp;<small><small>06:40, 21 August 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
# Spells will stay more useful for the life of the character.<br />
# Many spells will be converted to class features, such as "mage armor."<br />
# A best class list will be assembled by the boards. Whatever falls into #10 and #11 will be deemed to "suck", even if that difference is only a 1% power drop.<br />
# The Magic Item Compendium will be the model for gaining equipment.<br />
# No unregulated abilities dealing with creatures or cohorts.<br />
# Greatly reduced amnistrivia. Every entry will be geared towards flavor or adventure.<br />
# A follow-on book for Psionics. (0 points)<br />
# A follow-on book for "tech".<br />
# Too many typos and errata. (For some, one is too many.)<br />
<br />
=== [[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]]&nbsp;<small><small>05:03, 24 August 2007 (MDT)</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
I see a problem with the soring system. Observe;<br />
<br />
# The Three rule books will have '''less''' than 3000 pages in total.<br />
# Each rule book will have '''less''' than 999 pages.<br />
# There will '''not''' be a section on "Nerdomancy" in any of the books.<br />
# Monstrous Spiders will '''not''' have 10 legs now.<br />
# The barbarian will '''not''' have a name change to "frenzied maniac".<br />
# There will '''not''' be a PrC called pink bezerker in the Dunnjun Maasturrs Gid (see guess after the next one).<br />
# There will '''not''' be a PrC called Rinoserous warrior in the Dunnjun Maasturrs Gid (see thre next guess).<br />
# The titles of the core rule books will '''not''' be mispelt on the covers.<br />
# There will '''not''' be rules for an "M16 Semi-Automatic Shotgun" in the PLayerr's Handdbuk (see previous).<br />
# There will not be an entry in the Moonsterr Manule (see the one before the last one) for Clarkson, May and Hammond.<br />
<br />
As you can see, I have just got myself a garenteed 20 points. You might want to alter the scoring system so that points cannot bde gained in this way.<br />
<br />
:Actually, it totally doesn't matter how you cheat here, as there is nothing to win. You can keep your 20 points if this is what makes you happy. Although I do hope they will put a Pink Berserker PrC in the DMG just to prove you wrong. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 07:44, 26 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::doesn't make me happy. I don't like power gaming, I was just pointing out that the scoring system can be easily abused... This wasn't added to score the most points. In fact, I personally think those guesses are worth 0. But it would be funny to have a pink bezerker (Aarnott made that one up). What would be better would be the last one... But these where added as a laugh, not an honest attempt to score the most points. Treat my 20 points as nullified. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:05, 26 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
<!-- Copy the following line to answer:<br />
<br />
=== ~~~&nbsp;<small><small>~~~~~</small></small> ===<br />
<br />
--><br />
<br />
<br />
{{Forumfooter|Discussion}}<br />
__NOTOC__<br />
<br />
== &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 20:43, 30 August 2007 (MDT) ==<br />
<br />
# Far fewer base classes, around a half-dozen.<br />
# Talent trees.<br />
# Swift actions.<br />
# Full turn = 1 swift action, 1 move action, 1 standard action.<br />
# Surprise round = 1 standard action (only).<br />
# You're only flat-footed if you're surprised.<br />
# Fewer skills, with similar skills grouped together.<br />
# No more skill points per level, just Yes/No (have the skill or not).<br />
# Initiative is now a skill.<br />
# No multiclassing penalty.<br />
# Weapon group proficiencies.<br />
# Various penalties (e.g. non-proficiency) are now -5 instead of -4.<br />
# Action points.<br />
<br />
FYI, I haven't read any of the previews, but I do have [[w:Star Wars Roleplaying Game (Wizards of the Coast)#Saga Edition|Star Wars Saga Edition]].</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=125481Talk:Main Page2007-08-22T17:02:27Z<p>Cuthalion: /* Namespaces */ templates</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Archives<br />
|label1=Discussions 1&ndash;20<br />
|label2=Discussions 21&ndash;39<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Name [[The Tavern]] ==<br />
<br />
Hello everyone,<br />
<br />
To create a place for general chat and banter, please go to [[The Tavern]] and help naming the place! --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 01:51, 20 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Getting a D&D game going. ==<br />
<br />
I was wondering if anyone knew any good sites for getting a game together or finding games, or any good programs. We might also want to ask those sites if they want to become affiliated with us. I also wanted to see if any of you wanted to play. --[[User:Shadethedemon|DeadlyNightShade]] 13:41, 22 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I do not know of any, sorry... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:08, 30 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::[http://www.openrpg.com Start from here] -- [[User:Flession|Flession]] 04:50, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Templates ==<br />
<br />
[[Image:Stop_hand.png|right]]<br />
There are a lot of templates in use at D&D Wiki, most of them rather unpleasant to the eye. Open a page like [[SRD:Skill Focus (Feat)]]. 4 lines of relevant text, 3 templates, 2 of them with the ugly stop hand image (see left). If you see the page for the first time, it's like a shock. What did I do wrong? What am I doing here? Compare to the same content on [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#skillFocus d20srd.org]. Obviously, it's not necessary to decorate every page with boxes. I suggest we merge the 3 boxes that are currently found on every SRD page into one, remove the stop hand and give it a more pleasant colour scheme.<br />
<br />
I have a similar issue with the "Balance" box. Look at a class page like [[Overlord (DnD Class)]]. I have to scroll 1 1/2 pages before I see any text content, because there is a TOC, the author box, an image, and that superfluous Balance box. We should move that Balance box to the bottom of pages. If I look at a class, I don't want to see the balance rating first, I want to get a general image of what it's about. The balance box can be at the page footer. If you want to add the balance rating at the top of the page, use the space on the right next to the page title. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 21:22, 9 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Before I respond I would like to say that the [[Overlord (DnD Class)]] is not formatted right; the image is not correct, etc. If the image was correctly formatted the text would start almost right away. Please use examples of correctly formatted classes, thanks. As a side comment the images on that class are very very nice, kudos if you made em ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:36, 9 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::About the templates, I agree. We can merge them/make them better. Please post any ideas you have here, thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:40, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I did. Merge the templates, remove the picture, blank out the OGL Top template, change the colour. Now it's "the community's" turn. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 06:53, 12 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::I kind of meant an example... Also, as a starter, I am looking at changing our [[Template:Admin Locked Page]] to [[wikirps:Template:Restricted]]'s look. What do you think about this idea? Also, I feel that [[Template:Admin Locked Page]] is a bit of a silly name, and could be re-named... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:57, 12 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::The admin locked template is okay as it blends in the color scheme, I'm more worried about the other two. What could work is use the admin locked template as basis, but a horizontal line in and add the "this page is under OGL / content from SRD" announcement there. Then all you need to do is change the footer template in all SRD pages. Well, I did plan overhaul the SRD so all pages contain a footer template, but I got stopped in the process. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:25, 13 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Do you mean something like this?<br />
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:Stop_hand.png|45px| ]]<br />
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::or this?<br />
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;" border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=2 text-align: center"<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:Stop hand small.png]] || colspan=2 style="font-size: .9em;" | This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::To replace [[Template:OGL Top]]? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:09, 13 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Both are better (though I prefer the former). If you don't like the "stop" image, why not replace it with a D20? It sorta fits in better with the SRD than a stop sign. What do you think? To be honest, I am more interested in content than templates, but it is nice to have nice-looking pages... I would like to say that I like the "balance, author and contents first" formatting, so I am happy to keep it. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 07:52, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::Okay, how does this look? Better?<br />
::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;" border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=2 text-align: center"<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|30px]] || colspan=2 style="font-size: .9em;" | This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::::Should the image be larger or is it okay like it is? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:13, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Thats ok, though I prefer this one:<br />
:::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
:::::::::Although either is just as good... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:18, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I agree with Sam Kay. The thing I like about that version is that it is readable, it doesn't look like "you shouldn't be looking at this page", and it shows the affiliation with the SRD and OGL by using the d20 image. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 12:23, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Prettier. I like. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 12:39, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Okay, which one should replace [[Template:OGL Top]] the smaller one or the larger one? Personally I like the smaller one so it will be less obtrusive... Ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:40, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::I took the second one and reduced the amount of bold text. Looks good now. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 21:32, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
:::::::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
''&rarr;Reverted indentation to one colon''<br />
<br />
:How about this... Instead of making a huge noticable template for the top we have something like<br />
:{| style="text-align: center" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[OGL]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
:or<br />
:{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[OGL]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
: where "More" links to a "span id" in the page brought by [[Template:OGL Bottom]]? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 02:28, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Yeah... those ones would look good at the end of each SRD page. In the end, it is up to you, [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:17, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Wait, so you prefer those for bottom templates? I was thinking they could replace [[Template:OGL Top]] and then we could work on the bottom after we have decided the top... I am a fan of having the smaller of the last two choices replace [[Template:OGL Top]]. Ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:38, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Less space is always good. Pick the smaller one. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:47, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Do we really need a top AND a bottom template? Why not just have a top template? Dunno. If we really need a bottom and top template, why not have:<br />
<br />
:::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:::::SRD stuff, yada yada yada, ect...<br />
<br />
:::::{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[OGL]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
:::::Any good?--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:51, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::I like the top to be small so you can get straight to the text. In fact, it might be preferable to do something like:<br />
::::::<center>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]</center><br />
::::::At the top, and on the bottom (Mkill's):<br />
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::The top could link to the bottom part. That way there is little white space at the top, but it ''identifies'' the page as an SRD page. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:55, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Here is what I think may look good. Just having the D20 Systems Logo on the top at 40px ([[User:Aarnott|Aarnott's]] Idea) and then on the bottom having a slightly modified [[User:Mkill|Mkills']] idea that looks like<br />
:::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. <small>[[Template:OGL Bottom|&rarr;More Information]]</small><br />
|}<br />
:::::::Where "More Information" would link to something that says what the current [[Template:OGL Bottom]] says. What do you guys think about this idea? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:42, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::I prefer a single, bottom box. I've always thought the top mark redundant. The focus on opening an article should always be the article itself. If you must put a d20 logo on the page, put it in the top-right. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:48, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I absolutely agree with Dmilewski. The OGL_Top template should only place the D20 logo in the top right corner, and there should be one box at the bottom saying 1. this is SRD material 2. it is under OGL 3. this page is locked. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 07:18, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Agreed (though I guess it was really the point I was saying before). The D20 logo will help ''identify'' a page as an SRD page for a user, which I think is important. The bottom footer is unobtrusive and gives the required info. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 08:18, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Yeah. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:20, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Looks like we have a community agreement. So the OGL_Top template would be changed to<br />
::::::::::::<nowiki>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|left|45px]]</nowiki><br />
::::::::::::--[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:47, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::The top template has been changed, however to <nowiki>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|right|45px]]</nowiki>. Now for the bottom template... ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:46, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
''&rarr;Reverted indentation to one colon''<br />
<br />
:I do like the d20 logo looks, but I question whether or not it's appropriate. Not everything that uses the d20 System is under OGL. Given that there are a number of gamers that keep thinking anything that is OGC is part of the SRD (such as the UA, and the S&S products), I worry that using the d20 logo to identify OGLed material might be promoting the misconception. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:15, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Oh, I see what you mean. I completely forgot that non-SRD items also use that template... Arrg, this is becoming a lot harder that it first looked. Maybe we could change all non-SRD items that use that template to use a different one (or none at all?) and keep it on the SRD items? Or we could take the easy route and just change the template to something that works for everything..? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:32, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I'd change the non-SRD stuff. Have them use a different template... Because they are different! --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 11:51, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Or what we could do is just change [[Template:OGL Top]] to say something like "''This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a|OGL]]'''''. in the right hand corner of the screen. That would be the easy way to make this all work... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:20, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::It has been changed. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:25, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Meta Pages ==<br />
<br />
I say that we should move the link to the [[Meta Pages]] off the [[Main Page]] and onto the sidebar (under navigation). The reason I see this as a good idea is because the average user goes here for content, not for seeing the infrastructure of D&D Wiki. I find that the average user has no need for [[Meta Pages]] while a more consistant user will use it (and can find it on the sidebar). I also do not want the Main Page getting cluttered. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:04, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I agree. I have only ever used it twice, and it is really only needed occaisionally. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 13:35, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Done and done. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:09, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== 4th edition ==<br />
<br />
I don't really want to recreate the rumours and excitement concerning the upcoming 4th edition, but it looks like we need to think about a way to handle it here. It's pretty sure that there will be two editions in parallel use, at least for a while, so we need a way to separate editions. Tagging articles [[:Category:3.5]] and [[:Category:4.0]] wouldn't be too hard, what I'm concerned about is article lemmata for articles that exists in different versions for different editions. <br />
<br />
Also, it's not clear yet whether there will be a 4th edition SRD. I hope there will be one. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:50, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Might be a good idea to put SRD 3.5 articles with a template underneath (this is only a suggestion, not an attempt to have a million templates per page):<br />
<br />
:{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[V3.5 rules]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
<br />
:Although, there might be too many templates if we do this. perhaps we could replace the SRD template to this for 3.5 articles:<br />
<br />
:{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. This material is for the D&D [[V 3.5 rules]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:We don't really need to mark homebrew stuff- it should work for 4.0 rules anyway. Whatre can I find news on the 4th edition, anyway? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:10, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Have you been at the WotC Homepage lately? Did you notice something? --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 09:48, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::If 4e is really coming out we can most likely just slap on a small template on all 4e things or all 3.5e things. Also, the categories you said above will work. I do not see it as too much of a problem... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:55, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::According to my reasearch, it ios not out until 2011 (rather silly really; why advertise it four and a bit years before its release), so we really do not have to bother with it yet, anyway. {{Unsigned|Sam Kay|10:04, 16 August 2007 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
::::::Boo! Hsssss! I had a browser tab open for the last ten minutes of the countdown of the [http://www.wizards.com/dnd D&D] page. Once it finished, I got "Service Unavailable". About as disappointing as 3.0 psionics. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:35, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Lol ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:38, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::4th edition is definitely coming. We really need to sit down, argue, butt heads, and work out the namespacing issues now. Thankfully, 3E has a namespace already. We have lots to sort out. Wikiworld will instantly be 4th compatible, as I haven't bothered with stats for most of the writeup. The new MIC style items should also be compatible. There are interesting times ahead. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:39, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::It has been stated that the PHB will be out May '08 MM June '08 and DMG July '08<br />
<br />
:::::::::Yes, we have a year to prepare but it makes it easier later if we start thinking about it now. Btw., I'm still waiting for the WotC Homepage to survive sudden massive attention so I can see the official WotC Press release... --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:22, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Just do what I suggested and replace the OGC tgemplate with:<br />
::::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. This material is for the D&D [[V 3.5 rules]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
::::::::::It is alot easier to mark 3.5 in this way. You could also add an image to the template to mark it, I suppose. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:30, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::I vote to leave the V3.5 on the wiki pemanently (unless the wiki runs out of memory), as some people will still use V3.5. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:39, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Btw, [http://rustmonster.net/2007/08/16/dd-4th-edition-announced-gen-con/ here] it says that Wizards announced to continue the OGL. Good decision. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 09:45, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::Can we get a 4E Info/Rumor link up on the landing page? (Though we may as well link it to ENWorld. They will have the best coverage.) [http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e ENWorld 4E Page] It hasn't been updated yet, but it will be. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:19, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
''&rarr;Reverted indentation to one colon''<br />
<br />
:Great! it will be nice to have 4.0e on the wiki.--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:27, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::A few things. First off we need to figure out if the homebrew material will be compatible with 4e, if it is we are well off. If it is not we need to figure out how we are going to categorize the 3.5e and the 4e homebrew information separately. Oh, and yes, D&D Wiki has enough space to keep the 3.5e material - nothing need ever be deleted to save space on D&D Wiki. Secondly, if we want a link to 4e information from ENWorld then, I feel, that we should add it as a news item. Dmilewski can take care of this if this is the communities decision. Thirdly we need to figure out when the 4e SRD is coming out to see how much time we have to prepare for it. About the SRD (3.5e and 4e); we need to decide if we want a different namespace for the two SRD editions or if we want to organize them by their identifiers. Anyway, if the homebrew information is compatible we are looking at not too much work (and a much more useful and successful D&D Wiki). Let us hope... ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:10, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I think ther homebrew stuff will mostlky ber compatable with 4e, but if not we will have to work to update the best stuff... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:22, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Either the homebrew material is almost 100% good-to-go or it is not. We cannot have a medium on D&D Wiki. The reason we can not have a medium is because many many people will not switch over to 4e for a long time (or ever!) and we do want want these people to lose D&D Wiki as a recourse. If the two editions are not compatible we will have to have two separate pages like [[Dungeons and Dragons]] and we will have to have 3.5e classes, races, etc and 4e classes, races, etc. Again, we need to really know if they will be compatible or not (and if someone has any information please cite the source). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:32, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, I know, I was meaning as they are now... I have had a look at the articles on WotC website, and I seem to remember that the playtest report mentioned that a player was playing a psyon (because it was 3.5e) to see if it was compatible.--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:42, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::I volenteer to help updating homberew stuff to 4e should the need arise (hopefully it won't). --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:54, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I think that conversion of each section should be considered on a case-by-case basis. For example, magic items may only need a level assigned to them. That's an easy conversion worth doing. Classes and prestige classes will need to be entirely rewritten as trees, maneuvers, or such, if they are worth translating at all. <br />
<br />
:::::::My current belief is that we will need to split the content. That hoses the entire redirect initiative. (That was a reservation of mine with the redirect initiative. All the pages that I did for the SRD were hard-referenced. I used no redirects.) <br />
<br />
:::::::Campaign environments will be easiest to convert. Many simply implement the existing system, then list some house rules. For example, LotR and Wikiworld are both concept heavy, rules light. Wikiworld has always been rules light, as I wanted Wikiworld to work with any game system. I suggest that Sam keep LotR rules light, so as to keep it universal. <br />
<br />
==New Edition Issues==<br />
<br />
The following questions are both technical and procedural. There is no correct answer. These questions are here to collect upcoming issues with the wiki and decisions that should be considered. Please add to the list.<br />
<br />
====General architecture====<br />
* How best to manage a wiki filled with multiple editions and systems (3E, 4E, Modern, Etc.)<br />
** ''I am very open to discussion, but I feel that the best way to manage different systems is to make the different edition pages very obvious. For example, we could have all namespace v4 pages come with a slightly darker page background, or something similar. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:22, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
*** ''I agree. The Wizards message boards use a different skin for each game. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 10:57, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
<br />
====Namespaces====<br />
* Should we move current SRD pages to a 3E namespace?<br />
** ''I assume you mean 3.5E namespace, and I feel that we need to wait a bit until the structure is clear and known to all, but I feel that it definitely needs to happen before 4E comes out. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:23, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
* How do we want the namespaces to interact?<br />
* What should we do with articles that are invariant between 3E and 4E (assuming there are any)?<br />
** ''This brings up another question: It would be great if there was a way to allow edits on a 3.5E to be reflected, or maybe a reflection would be requested, onto a 4E page. This way the races or whatnot would remain the same. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:25, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
*** ''I've been wrestling with related questions on [[WikiRPS]]. It's easy to have small (or even large) pieces of shared text, using a template. But what if the bulk of the text is shared, but just the numbers scattered throughout the text are different (for instance)? As far as I know, the only way to do it is to modularize the text into templates as much as possible. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 11:02, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
* Redirects point to 3E SRD. Is there a way to have namespace relative redirects, where <nowiki>[[foo]]</nowiki> inside the <nowiki>[[SRD]]</nowiki> context points to <nowiki>[[SRD:Foo]]</nowiki> while <nowiki>[[foo]]</nowiki> in the 4E context points to <nowiki>[[SRD4:Foo]]</nowiki>. <br />
** ''I don't think it's possible, but I'm willing to be proven wrong. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:55, 21 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
*** ''It would be possible with a few minor hacks. However, this will lead to a very confusing website. I am against the idea. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:18, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
<br />
====Templates====<br />
* What templates should be used to tag 3E and 4E pages?<br />
====Homebrew====<br />
* Should homebrew rules be tagged by edition?<br />
** ''I strongly feel so. Everything is specific to a version if it falls back on D&D. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:26, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
* Should campaigns get their own namespace, or belong to their intended edition?<br />
** ''I feel that campaigns should not get their own namespaces because it would remove the items in the campaign from D&D Wiki linking schemes, etc. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:26, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
<br />
====Site conversion====<br />
* How best to automate changes?<br />
* Should 3E redirect be systematically replace with hard page references?<br />
** ''I'm not sure I understand the question. Can you give an example? &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:55, 21 August 2007 (MDT)''</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=125479Talk:Main Page2007-08-22T16:57:00Z<p>Cuthalion: /* General architecture */ skins</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Archives<br />
|label1=Discussions 1&ndash;20<br />
|label2=Discussions 21&ndash;39<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Name [[The Tavern]] ==<br />
<br />
Hello everyone,<br />
<br />
To create a place for general chat and banter, please go to [[The Tavern]] and help naming the place! --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 01:51, 20 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Getting a D&D game going. ==<br />
<br />
I was wondering if anyone knew any good sites for getting a game together or finding games, or any good programs. We might also want to ask those sites if they want to become affiliated with us. I also wanted to see if any of you wanted to play. --[[User:Shadethedemon|DeadlyNightShade]] 13:41, 22 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I do not know of any, sorry... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:08, 30 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::[http://www.openrpg.com Start from here] -- [[User:Flession|Flession]] 04:50, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Templates ==<br />
<br />
[[Image:Stop_hand.png|right]]<br />
There are a lot of templates in use at D&D Wiki, most of them rather unpleasant to the eye. Open a page like [[SRD:Skill Focus (Feat)]]. 4 lines of relevant text, 3 templates, 2 of them with the ugly stop hand image (see left). If you see the page for the first time, it's like a shock. What did I do wrong? What am I doing here? Compare to the same content on [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#skillFocus d20srd.org]. Obviously, it's not necessary to decorate every page with boxes. I suggest we merge the 3 boxes that are currently found on every SRD page into one, remove the stop hand and give it a more pleasant colour scheme.<br />
<br />
I have a similar issue with the "Balance" box. Look at a class page like [[Overlord (DnD Class)]]. I have to scroll 1 1/2 pages before I see any text content, because there is a TOC, the author box, an image, and that superfluous Balance box. We should move that Balance box to the bottom of pages. If I look at a class, I don't want to see the balance rating first, I want to get a general image of what it's about. The balance box can be at the page footer. If you want to add the balance rating at the top of the page, use the space on the right next to the page title. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 21:22, 9 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Before I respond I would like to say that the [[Overlord (DnD Class)]] is not formatted right; the image is not correct, etc. If the image was correctly formatted the text would start almost right away. Please use examples of correctly formatted classes, thanks. As a side comment the images on that class are very very nice, kudos if you made em ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:36, 9 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::About the templates, I agree. We can merge them/make them better. Please post any ideas you have here, thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:40, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I did. Merge the templates, remove the picture, blank out the OGL Top template, change the colour. Now it's "the community's" turn. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 06:53, 12 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::I kind of meant an example... Also, as a starter, I am looking at changing our [[Template:Admin Locked Page]] to [[wikirps:Template:Restricted]]'s look. What do you think about this idea? Also, I feel that [[Template:Admin Locked Page]] is a bit of a silly name, and could be re-named... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:57, 12 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::The admin locked template is okay as it blends in the color scheme, I'm more worried about the other two. What could work is use the admin locked template as basis, but a horizontal line in and add the "this page is under OGL / content from SRD" announcement there. Then all you need to do is change the footer template in all SRD pages. Well, I did plan overhaul the SRD so all pages contain a footer template, but I got stopped in the process. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:25, 13 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Do you mean something like this?<br />
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:Stop_hand.png|45px| ]]<br />
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::or this?<br />
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;" border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=2 text-align: center"<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:Stop hand small.png]] || colspan=2 style="font-size: .9em;" | This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::To replace [[Template:OGL Top]]? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:09, 13 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Both are better (though I prefer the former). If you don't like the "stop" image, why not replace it with a D20? It sorta fits in better with the SRD than a stop sign. What do you think? To be honest, I am more interested in content than templates, but it is nice to have nice-looking pages... I would like to say that I like the "balance, author and contents first" formatting, so I am happy to keep it. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 07:52, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::Okay, how does this look? Better?<br />
::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;" border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=2 text-align: center"<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|30px]] || colspan=2 style="font-size: .9em;" | This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::::Should the image be larger or is it okay like it is? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:13, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Thats ok, though I prefer this one:<br />
:::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
:::::::::Although either is just as good... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:18, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I agree with Sam Kay. The thing I like about that version is that it is readable, it doesn't look like "you shouldn't be looking at this page", and it shows the affiliation with the SRD and OGL by using the d20 image. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 12:23, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Prettier. I like. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 12:39, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Okay, which one should replace [[Template:OGL Top]] the smaller one or the larger one? Personally I like the smaller one so it will be less obtrusive... Ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:40, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::I took the second one and reduced the amount of bold text. Looks good now. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 21:32, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
:::::::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
''&rarr;Reverted indentation to one colon''<br />
<br />
:How about this... Instead of making a huge noticable template for the top we have something like<br />
:{| style="text-align: center" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[OGL]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
:or<br />
:{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[OGL]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
: where "More" links to a "span id" in the page brought by [[Template:OGL Bottom]]? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 02:28, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Yeah... those ones would look good at the end of each SRD page. In the end, it is up to you, [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:17, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Wait, so you prefer those for bottom templates? I was thinking they could replace [[Template:OGL Top]] and then we could work on the bottom after we have decided the top... I am a fan of having the smaller of the last two choices replace [[Template:OGL Top]]. Ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:38, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Less space is always good. Pick the smaller one. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:47, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Do we really need a top AND a bottom template? Why not just have a top template? Dunno. If we really need a bottom and top template, why not have:<br />
<br />
:::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:::::SRD stuff, yada yada yada, ect...<br />
<br />
:::::{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[OGL]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
:::::Any good?--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:51, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::I like the top to be small so you can get straight to the text. In fact, it might be preferable to do something like:<br />
::::::<center>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]</center><br />
::::::At the top, and on the bottom (Mkill's):<br />
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::The top could link to the bottom part. That way there is little white space at the top, but it ''identifies'' the page as an SRD page. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:55, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Here is what I think may look good. Just having the D20 Systems Logo on the top at 40px ([[User:Aarnott|Aarnott's]] Idea) and then on the bottom having a slightly modified [[User:Mkill|Mkills']] idea that looks like<br />
:::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. <small>[[Template:OGL Bottom|&rarr;More Information]]</small><br />
|}<br />
:::::::Where "More Information" would link to something that says what the current [[Template:OGL Bottom]] says. What do you guys think about this idea? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:42, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::I prefer a single, bottom box. I've always thought the top mark redundant. The focus on opening an article should always be the article itself. If you must put a d20 logo on the page, put it in the top-right. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:48, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I absolutely agree with Dmilewski. The OGL_Top template should only place the D20 logo in the top right corner, and there should be one box at the bottom saying 1. this is SRD material 2. it is under OGL 3. this page is locked. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 07:18, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Agreed (though I guess it was really the point I was saying before). The D20 logo will help ''identify'' a page as an SRD page for a user, which I think is important. The bottom footer is unobtrusive and gives the required info. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 08:18, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Yeah. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:20, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Looks like we have a community agreement. So the OGL_Top template would be changed to<br />
::::::::::::<nowiki>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|left|45px]]</nowiki><br />
::::::::::::--[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:47, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::The top template has been changed, however to <nowiki>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|right|45px]]</nowiki>. Now for the bottom template... ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:46, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
''&rarr;Reverted indentation to one colon''<br />
<br />
:I do like the d20 logo looks, but I question whether or not it's appropriate. Not everything that uses the d20 System is under OGL. Given that there are a number of gamers that keep thinking anything that is OGC is part of the SRD (such as the UA, and the S&S products), I worry that using the d20 logo to identify OGLed material might be promoting the misconception. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:15, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Oh, I see what you mean. I completely forgot that non-SRD items also use that template... Arrg, this is becoming a lot harder that it first looked. Maybe we could change all non-SRD items that use that template to use a different one (or none at all?) and keep it on the SRD items? Or we could take the easy route and just change the template to something that works for everything..? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:32, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I'd change the non-SRD stuff. Have them use a different template... Because they are different! --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 11:51, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Or what we could do is just change [[Template:OGL Top]] to say something like "''This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a|OGL]]'''''. in the right hand corner of the screen. That would be the easy way to make this all work... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:20, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::It has been changed. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:25, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Meta Pages ==<br />
<br />
I say that we should move the link to the [[Meta Pages]] off the [[Main Page]] and onto the sidebar (under navigation). The reason I see this as a good idea is because the average user goes here for content, not for seeing the infrastructure of D&D Wiki. I find that the average user has no need for [[Meta Pages]] while a more consistant user will use it (and can find it on the sidebar). I also do not want the Main Page getting cluttered. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:04, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I agree. I have only ever used it twice, and it is really only needed occaisionally. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 13:35, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Done and done. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:09, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== 4th edition ==<br />
<br />
I don't really want to recreate the rumours and excitement concerning the upcoming 4th edition, but it looks like we need to think about a way to handle it here. It's pretty sure that there will be two editions in parallel use, at least for a while, so we need a way to separate editions. Tagging articles [[:Category:3.5]] and [[:Category:4.0]] wouldn't be too hard, what I'm concerned about is article lemmata for articles that exists in different versions for different editions. <br />
<br />
Also, it's not clear yet whether there will be a 4th edition SRD. I hope there will be one. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:50, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Might be a good idea to put SRD 3.5 articles with a template underneath (this is only a suggestion, not an attempt to have a million templates per page):<br />
<br />
:{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[V3.5 rules]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
<br />
:Although, there might be too many templates if we do this. perhaps we could replace the SRD template to this for 3.5 articles:<br />
<br />
:{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. This material is for the D&D [[V 3.5 rules]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:We don't really need to mark homebrew stuff- it should work for 4.0 rules anyway. Whatre can I find news on the 4th edition, anyway? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:10, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Have you been at the WotC Homepage lately? Did you notice something? --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 09:48, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::If 4e is really coming out we can most likely just slap on a small template on all 4e things or all 3.5e things. Also, the categories you said above will work. I do not see it as too much of a problem... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:55, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::According to my reasearch, it ios not out until 2011 (rather silly really; why advertise it four and a bit years before its release), so we really do not have to bother with it yet, anyway. {{Unsigned|Sam Kay|10:04, 16 August 2007 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
::::::Boo! Hsssss! I had a browser tab open for the last ten minutes of the countdown of the [http://www.wizards.com/dnd D&D] page. Once it finished, I got "Service Unavailable". About as disappointing as 3.0 psionics. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:35, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Lol ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:38, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::4th edition is definitely coming. We really need to sit down, argue, butt heads, and work out the namespacing issues now. Thankfully, 3E has a namespace already. We have lots to sort out. Wikiworld will instantly be 4th compatible, as I haven't bothered with stats for most of the writeup. The new MIC style items should also be compatible. There are interesting times ahead. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:39, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::It has been stated that the PHB will be out May '08 MM June '08 and DMG July '08<br />
<br />
:::::::::Yes, we have a year to prepare but it makes it easier later if we start thinking about it now. Btw., I'm still waiting for the WotC Homepage to survive sudden massive attention so I can see the official WotC Press release... --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:22, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Just do what I suggested and replace the OGC tgemplate with:<br />
::::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. This material is for the D&D [[V 3.5 rules]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
::::::::::It is alot easier to mark 3.5 in this way. You could also add an image to the template to mark it, I suppose. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:30, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::I vote to leave the V3.5 on the wiki pemanently (unless the wiki runs out of memory), as some people will still use V3.5. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:39, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Btw, [http://rustmonster.net/2007/08/16/dd-4th-edition-announced-gen-con/ here] it says that Wizards announced to continue the OGL. Good decision. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 09:45, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::Can we get a 4E Info/Rumor link up on the landing page? (Though we may as well link it to ENWorld. They will have the best coverage.) [http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e ENWorld 4E Page] It hasn't been updated yet, but it will be. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:19, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
''&rarr;Reverted indentation to one colon''<br />
<br />
:Great! it will be nice to have 4.0e on the wiki.--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:27, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::A few things. First off we need to figure out if the homebrew material will be compatible with 4e, if it is we are well off. If it is not we need to figure out how we are going to categorize the 3.5e and the 4e homebrew information separately. Oh, and yes, D&D Wiki has enough space to keep the 3.5e material - nothing need ever be deleted to save space on D&D Wiki. Secondly, if we want a link to 4e information from ENWorld then, I feel, that we should add it as a news item. Dmilewski can take care of this if this is the communities decision. Thirdly we need to figure out when the 4e SRD is coming out to see how much time we have to prepare for it. About the SRD (3.5e and 4e); we need to decide if we want a different namespace for the two SRD editions or if we want to organize them by their identifiers. Anyway, if the homebrew information is compatible we are looking at not too much work (and a much more useful and successful D&D Wiki). Let us hope... ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:10, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I think ther homebrew stuff will mostlky ber compatable with 4e, but if not we will have to work to update the best stuff... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:22, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Either the homebrew material is almost 100% good-to-go or it is not. We cannot have a medium on D&D Wiki. The reason we can not have a medium is because many many people will not switch over to 4e for a long time (or ever!) and we do want want these people to lose D&D Wiki as a recourse. If the two editions are not compatible we will have to have two separate pages like [[Dungeons and Dragons]] and we will have to have 3.5e classes, races, etc and 4e classes, races, etc. Again, we need to really know if they will be compatible or not (and if someone has any information please cite the source). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:32, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, I know, I was meaning as they are now... I have had a look at the articles on WotC website, and I seem to remember that the playtest report mentioned that a player was playing a psyon (because it was 3.5e) to see if it was compatible.--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:42, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::I volenteer to help updating homberew stuff to 4e should the need arise (hopefully it won't). --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:54, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I think that conversion of each section should be considered on a case-by-case basis. For example, magic items may only need a level assigned to them. That's an easy conversion worth doing. Classes and prestige classes will need to be entirely rewritten as trees, maneuvers, or such, if they are worth translating at all. <br />
<br />
:::::::My current belief is that we will need to split the content. That hoses the entire redirect initiative. (That was a reservation of mine with the redirect initiative. All the pages that I did for the SRD were hard-referenced. I used no redirects.) <br />
<br />
:::::::Campaign environments will be easiest to convert. Many simply implement the existing system, then list some house rules. For example, LotR and Wikiworld are both concept heavy, rules light. Wikiworld has always been rules light, as I wanted Wikiworld to work with any game system. I suggest that Sam keep LotR rules light, so as to keep it universal. <br />
<br />
==New Edition Issues==<br />
<br />
The following questions are both technical and procedural. There is no correct answer. These questions are here to collect upcoming issues with the wiki and decisions that should be considered. Please add to the list.<br />
<br />
====General architecture====<br />
* How best to manage a wiki filled with multiple editions and systems (3E, 4E, Modern, Etc.)<br />
** ''I am very open to discussion, but I feel that the best way to manage different systems is to make the different edition pages very obvious. For example, we could have all namespace v4 pages come with a slightly darker page background, or something similar. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:22, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
*** ''I agree. The Wizards message boards use a different skin for each game. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 10:57, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
<br />
====Namespaces====<br />
* Should we move current SRD pages to a 3E namespace?<br />
** ''I assume you mean 3.5E namespace, and I feel that we need to wait a bit until the structure is clear and known to all, but I feel that it definitely needs to happen before 4E comes out. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:23, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
* How do we want the namespaces to interact?<br />
* What should we do with articles that are invariant between 3E and 4E (assuming there are any)?<br />
** ''This brings up another question: It would be great if there was a way to allow edits on a 3.5E to be reflected, or maybe a reflection would be requested, onto a 4E page. This way the races or whatnot would remain the same. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:25, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
* Redirects point to 3E SRD. Is there a way to have namespace relative redirects, where <nowiki>[[foo]]</nowiki> inside the <nowiki>[[SRD]]</nowiki> context points to <nowiki>[[SRD:Foo]]</nowiki> while <nowiki>[[foo]]</nowiki> in the 4E context points to <nowiki>[[SRD4:Foo]]</nowiki>. <br />
** ''I don't think it's possible, but I'm willing to be proven wrong. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:55, 21 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
*** ''It would be possible with a few minor hacks. However, this will lead to a very confusing website. I am against the idea. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:18, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
<br />
====Templates====<br />
* What templates should be used to tag 3E and 4E pages?<br />
====Homebrew====<br />
* Should homebrew rules be tagged by edition?<br />
** ''I strongly feel so. Everything is specific to a version if it falls back on D&D. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:26, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
* Should campaigns get their own namespace, or belong to their intended edition?<br />
** ''I feel that campaigns should not get their own namespaces because it would remove the items in the campaign from D&D Wiki linking schemes, etc. &mdash; <span style="color:#002137;">[[User:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]] <small> ([[User_talk:Blue Dragon|talk]])</small></span> 10:26, 22 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
<br />
====Site conversion====<br />
* How best to automate changes?<br />
* Should 3E redirect be systematically replace with hard page references?<br />
** ''I'm not sure I understand the question. Can you give an example? &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:55, 21 August 2007 (MDT)''</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Cuthalion&diff=125447User talk:Cuthalion2007-08-21T23:57:08Z<p>Cuthalion: /* MoI */ delete</p>
<hr />
<div>==MoI==<br />
<br />
==Welcome to D&D Wiki== <br />
<br />
Hello {{PAGENAME}}, and welcome to D&D Wiki! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like D&D Wiki and decide to stay. I am the owner of the site, and if you have a question feel free to ask me, however when contacting anyone on D&D Wiki through talk pages please sign your name using four tildes <nowiki>(~~~~)</nowiki>; this will automatically produce your name and the date. Also, if you want to help D&D Wiki but just don't know how [http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Green_Dragon&action=edit&section=new drop me a note] and I'll see what I can do. However, when dropping me a note please tell me how much time you would like to spend working, how well you know the Wiki Format, and how well you know D&D. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a D&D Wikian! If you need help ask me on my talk page, or just right here. Again, welcome! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:27, 4 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Thank you. So you'll end up reading this? I'm not used to communicating by wiki.<br />
<br />
:To answer your questions:<br />
<br />
:#I'm a minimally competent wiki user, and a fast learner.<br />
:#I used to know everything there was to know about AD&D 1st & 2nd editions. I know most of what there is to read about 3.5, but have comparatively little experience in practice -- I've only really played one character in one campaign.<br />
:#I'll have to play it by ear how much time I put into it. One nice thing about wiki is you can add things whenever you feel like it. Are there particular projects you're looking for help on?<br />
:FYI, I'm quite attached to [http://www.d20srd.org/ The Hypertext d20 SRD]. It's going to be hard to switch, but the wiki advantages obviously make it worth it. ''[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 10:51, 5 February 2007 (MST)''<br />
<br />
::I will end up reading this, I am a Recent Changes patroller and I go through ''every'' edit that happens on D&D Wiki. Also. if you really want to help you can help with the [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]]. I hope you decide to help, and the [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]] is a very good way to understand how items should be added and the correct formatting. I hope you like D&D Wiki, and I am glad your here. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:08, 5 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== NBoF ==<br />
<br />
What is your relationship with the NBoF? I am just asking because if you are part of the team, or something along those lines, I am wondering a couple things. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:36, 4 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:No, I have no affiliation with NBoF, nor any vested interest in seeing them publicized. I only found out about them a couple of days ago through this wiki. --''[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 10:56, 5 February 2007 (MST)''<br />
<br />
::Oh, ok. Thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:08, 5 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Colors ==<br />
<br />
Moved to: [[User talk:Cuthalion/Colors]].<br />
<br />
== Screwed up? ==<br />
<br />
Did I screw up my user talk page? I don't see either contents or messages of interest. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 11:49, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
: Okay, the contents just showed up. That's weird. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 11:50, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:: The contents have to have at least four headers before it shows up. The messages of interest will only show up if there's at least one MoI. &mdash;[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:41, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::: That explains it, thanks. Why four? How hard would it be to make this configurable? --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 12:43, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Don't know. I'd like to think the designers of [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki MediaWiki] produced the magic number four from the results (wish I could stop typing "resluts") of a lot of research, and extensive human factors testing, but I don't know whether or not that was actually the case. As far as determining the difficulty of making configurable, someone would have to dive into the MediaWiki code for that (or already know it). &mdash;[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:03, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== WikiRPS ==<br />
<br />
Moved to: [[User talk:Cuthalion/WikiRPS]].<br />
<br />
See also: [[wikirps:|WikiRPS]].<br />
<br />
== Formatting - The Improvisor (DnD Prestige Class) ==<br />
<br />
Hello. I am wondering if you would mind doing me a favor. Recently I have not had that much time, as seen my how little I went on over the weekend. Anyway, because of this lack of going on D&D Wiki I have a lot to catch up on here. So, I am wondering if you would mind formatting [[The Improvisor (DnD Prestige Class)]]. I am asking you for a couple of reasons. One is that I am sure you know formatting rather well and will make it accessible and good looking. Anyway, if you could format it it would mean a lot to me. Is this possible? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:49, 23 April 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Sure, I can do this.<br />
:#Have the formatting standards been finalized? I presume virtually everything that applies to base classes would also apply to prestige classes. It would be annoying to have to reformat it again in two weeks.<br />
:#Do you prefer not to ask the original author?<br />
:&ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 13:04, 24 April 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::A couple things. No the formatting standards have not been finalized, however they only apply to base classes and before any PrC's get formatted the base classes will get a work over. Anyway, the real reason I am asking you is because right now this PrC is inaccessible and it would be good if it was made accessible. Also no, one does not need to ask the authors permission to format something (I know, you may not like this.... I hope I am not offending you again....) --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:34, 24 April 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::No offense taken. A central part of the wiki concept is opening your work up to others for improvement. My question was whether it's better to make improvements yourself or ask the original author to make them, and I could argue either way on that.<br />
:::I should be able to get to it today. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 07:41, 25 April 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Personally I think it is just better to take it into ones own hands. Anyway, thanks again it was very nice of you to fomat that. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:58, 30 April 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Lethal&diff=125396Lethal2007-08-21T16:07:37Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[SRD:Loss of Hit Points (Rules)]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Pin&diff=125395Pin2007-08-21T16:05:04Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[SRD:Grapple (Rules)|Pin Your Opponent]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=125393Talk:Main Page2007-08-21T16:00:37Z<p>Cuthalion: /* New Edition Issues */ templates</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Archives<br />
|label1=Discussions 1&ndash;20<br />
|label2=Discussions 21&ndash;39<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Name [[The Tavern]] ==<br />
<br />
Hello everyone,<br />
<br />
To create a place for general chat and banter, please go to [[The Tavern]] and help naming the place! --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 01:51, 20 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Getting a D&D game going. ==<br />
<br />
I was wondering if anyone knew any good sites for getting a game together or finding games, or any good programs. We might also want to ask those sites if they want to become affiliated with us. I also wanted to see if any of you wanted to play. --[[User:Shadethedemon|DeadlyNightShade]] 13:41, 22 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I do not know of any, sorry... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:08, 30 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::[http://www.openrpg.com Start from here] -- [[User:Flession|Flession]] 04:50, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Templates ==<br />
<br />
[[Image:Stop_hand.png|right]]<br />
There are a lot of templates in use at D&D Wiki, most of them rather unpleasant to the eye. Open a page like [[SRD:Skill Focus (Feat)]]. 4 lines of relevant text, 3 templates, 2 of them with the ugly stop hand image (see left). If you see the page for the first time, it's like a shock. What did I do wrong? What am I doing here? Compare to the same content on [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#skillFocus d20srd.org]. Obviously, it's not necessary to decorate every page with boxes. I suggest we merge the 3 boxes that are currently found on every SRD page into one, remove the stop hand and give it a more pleasant colour scheme.<br />
<br />
I have a similar issue with the "Balance" box. Look at a class page like [[Overlord (DnD Class)]]. I have to scroll 1 1/2 pages before I see any text content, because there is a TOC, the author box, an image, and that superfluous Balance box. We should move that Balance box to the bottom of pages. If I look at a class, I don't want to see the balance rating first, I want to get a general image of what it's about. The balance box can be at the page footer. If you want to add the balance rating at the top of the page, use the space on the right next to the page title. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 21:22, 9 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Before I respond I would like to say that the [[Overlord (DnD Class)]] is not formatted right; the image is not correct, etc. If the image was correctly formatted the text would start almost right away. Please use examples of correctly formatted classes, thanks. As a side comment the images on that class are very very nice, kudos if you made em ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:36, 9 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::About the templates, I agree. We can merge them/make them better. Please post any ideas you have here, thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:40, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I did. Merge the templates, remove the picture, blank out the OGL Top template, change the colour. Now it's "the community's" turn. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 06:53, 12 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::I kind of meant an example... Also, as a starter, I am looking at changing our [[Template:Admin Locked Page]] to [[wikirps:Template:Restricted]]'s look. What do you think about this idea? Also, I feel that [[Template:Admin Locked Page]] is a bit of a silly name, and could be re-named... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:57, 12 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::The admin locked template is okay as it blends in the color scheme, I'm more worried about the other two. What could work is use the admin locked template as basis, but a horizontal line in and add the "this page is under OGL / content from SRD" announcement there. Then all you need to do is change the footer template in all SRD pages. Well, I did plan overhaul the SRD so all pages contain a footer template, but I got stopped in the process. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:25, 13 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Do you mean something like this?<br />
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:Stop_hand.png|45px| ]]<br />
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::or this?<br />
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;" border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=2 text-align: center"<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:Stop hand small.png]] || colspan=2 style="font-size: .9em;" | This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::To replace [[Template:OGL Top]]? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:09, 13 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Both are better (though I prefer the former). If you don't like the "stop" image, why not replace it with a D20? It sorta fits in better with the SRD than a stop sign. What do you think? To be honest, I am more interested in content than templates, but it is nice to have nice-looking pages... I would like to say that I like the "balance, author and contents first" formatting, so I am happy to keep it. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 07:52, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::Okay, how does this look? Better?<br />
::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;" border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=2 text-align: center"<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|30px]] || colspan=2 style="font-size: .9em;" | This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::::Should the image be larger or is it okay like it is? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:13, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Thats ok, though I prefer this one:<br />
:::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
:::::::::Although either is just as good... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:18, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I agree with Sam Kay. The thing I like about that version is that it is readable, it doesn't look like "you shouldn't be looking at this page", and it shows the affiliation with the SRD and OGL by using the d20 image. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 12:23, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Prettier. I like. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 12:39, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Okay, which one should replace [[Template:OGL Top]] the smaller one or the larger one? Personally I like the smaller one so it will be less obtrusive... Ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:40, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::I took the second one and reduced the amount of bold text. Looks good now. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 21:32, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
:::::::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
''&rarr;Reverted indentation to one colon''<br />
<br />
:How about this... Instead of making a huge noticable template for the top we have something like<br />
:{| style="text-align: center" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[OGL]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
:or<br />
:{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[OGL]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
: where "More" links to a "span id" in the page brought by [[Template:OGL Bottom]]? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 02:28, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Yeah... those ones would look good at the end of each SRD page. In the end, it is up to you, [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:17, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Wait, so you prefer those for bottom templates? I was thinking they could replace [[Template:OGL Top]] and then we could work on the bottom after we have decided the top... I am a fan of having the smaller of the last two choices replace [[Template:OGL Top]]. Ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:38, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Less space is always good. Pick the smaller one. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:47, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Do we really need a top AND a bottom template? Why not just have a top template? Dunno. If we really need a bottom and top template, why not have:<br />
<br />
:::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:::::SRD stuff, yada yada yada, ect...<br />
<br />
:::::{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[OGL]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
:::::Any good?--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:51, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::I like the top to be small so you can get straight to the text. In fact, it might be preferable to do something like:<br />
::::::<center>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]</center><br />
::::::At the top, and on the bottom (Mkill's):<br />
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::The top could link to the bottom part. That way there is little white space at the top, but it ''identifies'' the page as an SRD page. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:55, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Here is what I think may look good. Just having the D20 Systems Logo on the top at 40px ([[User:Aarnott|Aarnott's]] Idea) and then on the bottom having a slightly modified [[User:Mkill|Mkills']] idea that looks like<br />
:::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. <small>[[Template:OGL Bottom|&rarr;More Information]]</small><br />
|}<br />
:::::::Where "More Information" would link to something that says what the current [[Template:OGL Bottom]] says. What do you guys think about this idea? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:42, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::I prefer a single, bottom box. I've always thought the top mark redundant. The focus on opening an article should always be the article itself. If you must put a d20 logo on the page, put it in the top-right. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:48, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I absolutely agree with Dmilewski. The OGL_Top template should only place the D20 logo in the top right corner, and there should be one box at the bottom saying 1. this is SRD material 2. it is under OGL 3. this page is locked. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 07:18, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Agreed (though I guess it was really the point I was saying before). The D20 logo will help ''identify'' a page as an SRD page for a user, which I think is important. The bottom footer is unobtrusive and gives the required info. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 08:18, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Yeah. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:20, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Looks like we have a community agreement. So the OGL_Top template would be changed to<br />
::::::::::::<nowiki>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|left|45px]]</nowiki><br />
::::::::::::--[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:47, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::The top template has been changed, however to <nowiki>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|right|45px]]</nowiki>. Now for the bottom template... ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:46, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
''&rarr;Reverted indentation to one colon''<br />
<br />
:I do like the d20 logo looks, but I question whether or not it's appropriate. Not everything that uses the d20 System is under OGL. Given that there are a number of gamers that keep thinking anything that is OGC is part of the SRD (such as the UA, and the S&S products), I worry that using the d20 logo to identify OGLed material might be promoting the misconception. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:15, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Oh, I see what you mean. I completely forgot that non-SRD items also use that template... Arrg, this is becoming a lot harder that it first looked. Maybe we could change all non-SRD items that use that template to use a different one (or none at all?) and keep it on the SRD items? Or we could take the easy route and just change the template to something that works for everything..? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:32, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I'd change the non-SRD stuff. Have them use a different template... Because they are different! --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 11:51, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Or what we could do is just change [[Template:OGL Top]] to say something like "''This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a|OGL]]'''''. in the right hand corner of the screen. That would be the easy way to make this all work... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:20, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::It has been changed. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:25, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Meta Pages ==<br />
<br />
I say that we should move the link to the [[Meta Pages]] off the [[Main Page]] and onto the sidebar (under navigation). The reason I see this as a good idea is because the average user goes here for content, not for seeing the infrastructure of D&D Wiki. I find that the average user has no need for [[Meta Pages]] while a more consistant user will use it (and can find it on the sidebar). I also do not want the Main Page getting cluttered. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:04, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I agree. I have only ever used it twice, and it is really only needed occaisionally. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 13:35, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Done and done. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:09, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== 4th edition ==<br />
<br />
I don't really want to recreate the rumours and excitement concerning the upcoming 4th edition, but it looks like we need to think about a way to handle it here. It's pretty sure that there will be two editions in parallel use, at least for a while, so we need a way to separate editions. Tagging articles [[:Category:3.5]] and [[:Category:4.0]] wouldn't be too hard, what I'm concerned about is article lemmata for articles that exists in different versions for different editions. <br />
<br />
Also, it's not clear yet whether there will be a 4th edition SRD. I hope there will be one. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:50, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Might be a good idea to put SRD 3.5 articles with a template underneath (this is only a suggestion, not an attempt to have a million templates per page):<br />
<br />
:{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[V3.5 rules]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
<br />
:Although, there might be too many templates if we do this. perhaps we could replace the SRD template to this for 3.5 articles:<br />
<br />
:{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. This material is for the D&D [[V 3.5 rules]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:We don't really need to mark homebrew stuff- it should work for 4.0 rules anyway. Whatre can I find news on the 4th edition, anyway? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:10, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Have you been at the WotC Homepage lately? Did you notice something? --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 09:48, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::If 4e is really coming out we can most likely just slap on a small template on all 4e things or all 3.5e things. Also, the categories you said above will work. I do not see it as too much of a problem... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:55, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::According to my reasearch, it ios not out until 2011 (rather silly really; why advertise it four and a bit years before its release), so we really do not have to bother with it yet, anyway. {{Unsigned|Sam Kay|10:04, 16 August 2007 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
::::::Boo! Hsssss! I had a browser tab open for the last ten minutes of the countdown of the [http://www.wizards.com/dnd D&D] page. Once it finished, I got "Service Unavailable". About as disappointing as 3.0 psionics. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:35, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Lol ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:38, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::4th edition is definitely coming. We really need to sit down, argue, butt heads, and work out the namespacing issues now. Thankfully, 3E has a namespace already. We have lots to sort out. Wikiworld will instantly be 4th compatible, as I haven't bothered with stats for most of the writeup. The new MIC style items should also be compatible. There are interesting times ahead. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:39, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::It has been stated that the PHB will be out May '08 MM June '08 and DMG July '08<br />
<br />
:::::::::Yes, we have a year to prepare but it makes it easier later if we start thinking about it now. Btw., I'm still waiting for the WotC Homepage to survive sudden massive attention so I can see the official WotC Press release... --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:22, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Just do what I suggested and replace the OGC tgemplate with:<br />
::::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. This material is for the D&D [[V 3.5 rules]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
::::::::::It is alot easier to mark 3.5 in this way. You could also add an image to the template to mark it, I suppose. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:30, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::I vote to leave the V3.5 on the wiki pemanently (unless the wiki runs out of memory), as some people will still use V3.5. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:39, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Btw, [http://rustmonster.net/2007/08/16/dd-4th-edition-announced-gen-con/ here] it says that Wizards announced to continue the OGL. Good decision. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 09:45, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::Can we get a 4E Info/Rumor link up on the landing page? (Though we may as well link it to ENWorld. They will have the best coverage.) [http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e ENWorld 4E Page] It hasn't been updated yet, but it will be. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:19, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
''&rarr;Reverted indentation to one colon''<br />
<br />
:Great! it will be nice to have 4.0e on the wiki.--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:27, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::A few things. First off we need to figure out if the homebrew material will be compatible with 4e, if it is we are well off. If it is not we need to figure out how we are going to categorize the 3.5e and the 4e homebrew information separately. Oh, and yes, D&D Wiki has enough space to keep the 3.5e material - nothing need ever be deleted to save space on D&D Wiki. Secondly, if we want a link to 4e information from ENWorld then, I feel, that we should add it as a news item. Dmilewski can take care of this if this is the communities decision. Thirdly we need to figure out when the 4e SRD is coming out to see how much time we have to prepare for it. About the SRD (3.5e and 4e); we need to decide if we want a different namespace for the two SRD editions or if we want to organize them by their identifiers. Anyway, if the homebrew information is compatible we are looking at not too much work (and a much more useful and successful D&D Wiki). Let us hope... ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:10, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I think ther homebrew stuff will mostlky ber compatable with 4e, but if not we will have to work to update the best stuff... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:22, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Either the homebrew material is almost 100% good-to-go or it is not. We cannot have a medium on D&D Wiki. The reason we can not have a medium is because many many people will not switch over to 4e for a long time (or ever!) and we do want want these people to lose D&D Wiki as a recourse. If the two editions are not compatible we will have to have two separate pages like [[Dungeons and Dragons]] and we will have to have 3.5e classes, races, etc and 4e classes, races, etc. Again, we need to really know if they will be compatible or not (and if someone has any information please cite the source). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:32, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, I know, I was meaning as they are now... I have had a look at the articles on WotC website, and I seem to remember that the playtest report mentioned that a player was playing a psyon (because it was 3.5e) to see if it was compatible.--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:42, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::I volenteer to help updating homberew stuff to 4e should the need arise (hopefully it won't). --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:54, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I think that conversion of each section should be considered on a case-by-case basis. For example, magic items may only need a level assigned to them. That's an easy conversion worth doing. Classes and prestige classes will need to be entirely rewritten as trees, maneuvers, or such, if they are worth translating at all. <br />
<br />
:::::::My current belief is that we will need to split the content. That hoses the entire redirect initiative. (That was a reservation of mine with the redirect initiative. All the pages that I did for the SRD were hard-referenced. I used no redirects.) <br />
<br />
:::::::Campaign environments will be easiest to convert. Many simply implement the existing system, then list some house rules. For example, LotR and Wikiworld are both concept heavy, rules light. Wikiworld has always been rules light, as I wanted Wikiworld to work with any game system. I suggest that Sam keep LotR rules light, so as to keep it universal. <br />
<br />
==New Edition Issues==<br />
<br />
The following questions are both technical and procedural. There is no correct answer. These questions are here to collect upcoming issues with the wiki and decisions that should be considered. Please add to the list.<br />
<br />
====General architecture====<br />
* How best to manage a wiki filled with multiple editions and systems (3E, 4E, Modern, Etc.)<br />
====Namespaces====<br />
* Should we move current SRD pages to a 3E namespace?<br />
* How do we want the namespaces to interact?<br />
* What should we do with articles that are invariant between 3E and 4E (assuming there are any)?<br />
* Redirects point to 3E SRD. Is there a way to have namespace relative redirects, where <nowiki>[[foo]]</nowiki> inside the <nowiki>[[SRD]]</nowiki> context points to <nowiki>[[SRD:Foo]]</nowiki> while <nowiki>[[foo]]</nowiki> in the 4E context points to <nowiki>[[SRD4:Foo]]</nowiki>. <br />
** ''I don't think it's possible, but I'm willing to be proven wrong. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:55, 21 August 2007 (MDT)''<br />
====Templates====<br />
* What templates should be used to tag 3E and 4E pages?<br />
====Homebrew====<br />
* Should homebrew rules be tagged by edition?<br />
* Should campaigns get their own namespace, or belong to their intended edition?<br />
====Site conversion====<br />
* How best to automate changes?<br />
* Should 3E redirect be systematically replace with hard page references?<br />
** ''I'm not sure I understand the question. Can you give an example? &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:55, 21 August 2007 (MDT)''</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=125389Talk:Main Page2007-08-21T15:55:14Z<p>Cuthalion: /* New Edition Issues */ restructure</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Archives<br />
|label1=Discussions 1&ndash;20<br />
|label2=Discussions 21&ndash;39<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Name [[The Tavern]] ==<br />
<br />
Hello everyone,<br />
<br />
To create a place for general chat and banter, please go to [[The Tavern]] and help naming the place! --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 01:51, 20 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Getting a D&D game going. ==<br />
<br />
I was wondering if anyone knew any good sites for getting a game together or finding games, or any good programs. We might also want to ask those sites if they want to become affiliated with us. I also wanted to see if any of you wanted to play. --[[User:Shadethedemon|DeadlyNightShade]] 13:41, 22 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I do not know of any, sorry... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:08, 30 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::[http://www.openrpg.com Start from here] -- [[User:Flession|Flession]] 04:50, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Templates ==<br />
<br />
[[Image:Stop_hand.png|right]]<br />
There are a lot of templates in use at D&D Wiki, most of them rather unpleasant to the eye. Open a page like [[SRD:Skill Focus (Feat)]]. 4 lines of relevant text, 3 templates, 2 of them with the ugly stop hand image (see left). If you see the page for the first time, it's like a shock. What did I do wrong? What am I doing here? Compare to the same content on [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#skillFocus d20srd.org]. Obviously, it's not necessary to decorate every page with boxes. I suggest we merge the 3 boxes that are currently found on every SRD page into one, remove the stop hand and give it a more pleasant colour scheme.<br />
<br />
I have a similar issue with the "Balance" box. Look at a class page like [[Overlord (DnD Class)]]. I have to scroll 1 1/2 pages before I see any text content, because there is a TOC, the author box, an image, and that superfluous Balance box. We should move that Balance box to the bottom of pages. If I look at a class, I don't want to see the balance rating first, I want to get a general image of what it's about. The balance box can be at the page footer. If you want to add the balance rating at the top of the page, use the space on the right next to the page title. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 21:22, 9 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Before I respond I would like to say that the [[Overlord (DnD Class)]] is not formatted right; the image is not correct, etc. If the image was correctly formatted the text would start almost right away. Please use examples of correctly formatted classes, thanks. As a side comment the images on that class are very very nice, kudos if you made em ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:36, 9 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::About the templates, I agree. We can merge them/make them better. Please post any ideas you have here, thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 21:40, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I did. Merge the templates, remove the picture, blank out the OGL Top template, change the colour. Now it's "the community's" turn. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 06:53, 12 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::I kind of meant an example... Also, as a starter, I am looking at changing our [[Template:Admin Locked Page]] to [[wikirps:Template:Restricted]]'s look. What do you think about this idea? Also, I feel that [[Template:Admin Locked Page]] is a bit of a silly name, and could be re-named... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:57, 12 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::The admin locked template is okay as it blends in the color scheme, I'm more worried about the other two. What could work is use the admin locked template as basis, but a horizontal line in and add the "this page is under OGL / content from SRD" announcement there. Then all you need to do is change the footer template in all SRD pages. Well, I did plan overhaul the SRD so all pages contain a footer template, but I got stopped in the process. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:25, 13 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::Do you mean something like this?<br />
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:Stop_hand.png|45px| ]]<br />
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::or this?<br />
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;" border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=2 text-align: center"<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:Stop hand small.png]] || colspan=2 style="font-size: .9em;" | This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::To replace [[Template:OGL Top]]? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:09, 13 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Both are better (though I prefer the former). If you don't like the "stop" image, why not replace it with a D20? It sorta fits in better with the SRD than a stop sign. What do you think? To be honest, I am more interested in content than templates, but it is nice to have nice-looking pages... I would like to say that I like the "balance, author and contents first" formatting, so I am happy to keep it. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 07:52, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::Okay, how does this look? Better?<br />
::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;" border=0 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=2 text-align: center"<br />
|-<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|30px]] || colspan=2 style="font-size: .9em;" | This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::::Should the image be larger or is it okay like it is? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:13, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Thats ok, though I prefer this one:<br />
:::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
:::::::::Although either is just as good... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:18, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I agree with Sam Kay. The thing I like about that version is that it is readable, it doesn't look like "you shouldn't be looking at this page", and it shows the affiliation with the SRD and OGL by using the d20 image. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 12:23, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Prettier. I like. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 12:39, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Okay, which one should replace [[Template:OGL Top]] the smaller one or the larger one? Personally I like the smaller one so it will be less obtrusive... Ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:40, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::I took the second one and reduced the amount of bold text. Looks good now. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 21:32, 14 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
:::::::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
''&rarr;Reverted indentation to one colon''<br />
<br />
:How about this... Instead of making a huge noticable template for the top we have something like<br />
:{| style="text-align: center" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[OGL]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
:or<br />
:{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[OGL]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
: where "More" links to a "span id" in the page brought by [[Template:OGL Bottom]]? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 02:28, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Yeah... those ones would look good at the end of each SRD page. In the end, it is up to you, [[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]]. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:17, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::Wait, so you prefer those for bottom templates? I was thinking they could replace [[Template:OGL Top]] and then we could work on the bottom after we have decided the top... I am a fan of having the smaller of the last two choices replace [[Template:OGL Top]]. Ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:38, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Less space is always good. Pick the smaller one. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:47, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Do we really need a top AND a bottom template? Why not just have a top template? Dunno. If we really need a bottom and top template, why not have:<br />
<br />
:::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| '''This material is published under the [[Open Game License v1.0a]]. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:::::SRD stuff, yada yada yada, ect...<br />
<br />
:::::{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[OGL]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
:::::Any good?--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 10:51, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::I like the top to be small so you can get straight to the text. In fact, it might be preferable to do something like:<br />
::::::<center>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]</center><br />
::::::At the top, and on the bottom (Mkill's):<br />
::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page.<br />
|}<br />
::::::The top could link to the bottom part. That way there is little white space at the top, but it ''identifies'' the page as an SRD page. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 10:55, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Here is what I think may look good. Just having the D20 Systems Logo on the top at 40px ([[User:Aarnott|Aarnott's]] Idea) and then on the bottom having a slightly modified [[User:Mkill|Mkills']] idea that looks like<br />
:::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. <small>[[Template:OGL Bottom|&rarr;More Information]]</small><br />
|}<br />
:::::::Where "More Information" would link to something that says what the current [[Template:OGL Bottom]] says. What do you guys think about this idea? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:42, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::I prefer a single, bottom box. I've always thought the top mark redundant. The focus on opening an article should always be the article itself. If you must put a d20 logo on the page, put it in the top-right. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:48, 15 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I absolutely agree with Dmilewski. The OGL_Top template should only place the D20 logo in the top right corner, and there should be one box at the bottom saying 1. this is SRD material 2. it is under OGL 3. this page is locked. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 07:18, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Agreed (though I guess it was really the point I was saying before). The D20 logo will help ''identify'' a page as an SRD page for a user, which I think is important. The bottom footer is unobtrusive and gives the required info. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 08:18, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Yeah. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:20, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Looks like we have a community agreement. So the OGL_Top template would be changed to<br />
::::::::::::<nowiki>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|left|45px]]</nowiki><br />
::::::::::::--[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:47, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::The top template has been changed, however to <nowiki>[[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|right|45px]]</nowiki>. Now for the bottom template... ideas? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:46, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
''&rarr;Reverted indentation to one colon''<br />
<br />
:I do like the d20 logo looks, but I question whether or not it's appropriate. Not everything that uses the d20 System is under OGL. Given that there are a number of gamers that keep thinking anything that is OGC is part of the SRD (such as the UA, and the S&S products), I worry that using the d20 logo to identify OGLed material might be promoting the misconception. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 11:15, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Oh, I see what you mean. I completely forgot that non-SRD items also use that template... Arrg, this is becoming a lot harder that it first looked. Maybe we could change all non-SRD items that use that template to use a different one (or none at all?) and keep it on the SRD items? Or we could take the easy route and just change the template to something that works for everything..? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:32, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I'd change the non-SRD stuff. Have them use a different template... Because they are different! --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 11:51, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Or what we could do is just change [[Template:OGL Top]] to say something like "''This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a|OGL]]'''''. in the right hand corner of the screen. That would be the easy way to make this all work... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:20, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::It has been changed. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 11:25, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== Meta Pages ==<br />
<br />
I say that we should move the link to the [[Meta Pages]] off the [[Main Page]] and onto the sidebar (under navigation). The reason I see this as a good idea is because the average user goes here for content, not for seeing the infrastructure of D&D Wiki. I find that the average user has no need for [[Meta Pages]] while a more consistant user will use it (and can find it on the sidebar). I also do not want the Main Page getting cluttered. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:04, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I agree. I have only ever used it twice, and it is really only needed occaisionally. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 13:35, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Done and done. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 14:09, 10 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
== 4th edition ==<br />
<br />
I don't really want to recreate the rumours and excitement concerning the upcoming 4th edition, but it looks like we need to think about a way to handle it here. It's pretty sure that there will be two editions in parallel use, at least for a while, so we need a way to separate editions. Tagging articles [[:Category:3.5]] and [[:Category:4.0]] wouldn't be too hard, what I'm concerned about is article lemmata for articles that exists in different versions for different editions. <br />
<br />
Also, it's not clear yet whether there will be a 4th edition SRD. I hope there will be one. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 08:50, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Might be a good idea to put SRD 3.5 articles with a template underneath (this is only a suggestion, not an attempt to have a million templates per page):<br />
<br />
:{| style="text-align: center; font-size:0.9em;" width="100%"<br />
| [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|40px]]<br/>This material is published under the [[V3.5 rules]].<br/><small>[[Main Page|&rarr;More]]</small><br />
|}<br />
<br />
:Although, there might be too many templates if we do this. perhaps we could replace the SRD template to this for 3.5 articles:<br />
<br />
:{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. This material is for the D&D [[V 3.5 rules]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
:We don't really need to mark homebrew stuff- it should work for 4.0 rules anyway. Whatre can I find news on the 4th edition, anyway? --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:10, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::Have you been at the WotC Homepage lately? Did you notice something? --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 09:48, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::If 4e is really coming out we can most likely just slap on a small template on all 4e things or all 3.5e things. Also, the categories you said above will work. I do not see it as too much of a problem... --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 10:55, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::According to my reasearch, it ios not out until 2011 (rather silly really; why advertise it four and a bit years before its release), so we really do not have to bother with it yet, anyway. {{Unsigned|Sam Kay|10:04, 16 August 2007 (MDT)}}<br />
<br />
::::::Boo! Hsssss! I had a browser tab open for the last ten minutes of the countdown of the [http://www.wizards.com/dnd D&D] page. Once it finished, I got "Service Unavailable". About as disappointing as 3.0 psionics. —[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 16:35, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::Lol ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:38, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::4th edition is definitely coming. We really need to sit down, argue, butt heads, and work out the namespacing issues now. Thankfully, 3E has a namespace already. We have lots to sort out. Wikiworld will instantly be 4th compatible, as I haven't bothered with stats for most of the writeup. The new MIC style items should also be compatible. There are interesting times ahead. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 18:39, 16 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::It has been stated that the PHB will be out May '08 MM June '08 and DMG July '08<br />
<br />
:::::::::Yes, we have a year to prepare but it makes it easier later if we start thinking about it now. Btw., I'm still waiting for the WotC Homepage to survive sudden massive attention so I can see the official WotC Press release... --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 03:22, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Just do what I suggested and replace the OGC tgemplate with:<br />
::::::::::{| class="messagebox protected" style="border:2px solid #99B; padding:0px; font-size:0.9em;"<br />
|-<br />
| valign="top" | [[Image:D20 logo 4.jpg|45px]]<br />
| This material is published under the '''[[Open Game License v1.0a]]'''. The [[GNU Free Documentation License]] does not apply to this page. This material is for the D&D [[V 3.5 rules]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
::::::::::It is alot easier to mark 3.5 in this way. You could also add an image to the template to mark it, I suppose. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 04:30, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::I vote to leave the V3.5 on the wiki pemanently (unless the wiki runs out of memory), as some people will still use V3.5. --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 09:39, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::::::::Btw, [http://rustmonster.net/2007/08/16/dd-4th-edition-announced-gen-con/ here] it says that Wizards announced to continue the OGL. Good decision. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 09:45, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::::Can we get a 4E Info/Rumor link up on the landing page? (Though we may as well link it to ENWorld. They will have the best coverage.) [http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e ENWorld 4E Page] It hasn't been updated yet, but it will be. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 14:19, 17 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
''&rarr;Reverted indentation to one colon''<br />
<br />
:Great! it will be nice to have 4.0e on the wiki.--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 08:27, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::A few things. First off we need to figure out if the homebrew material will be compatible with 4e, if it is we are well off. If it is not we need to figure out how we are going to categorize the 3.5e and the 4e homebrew information separately. Oh, and yes, D&D Wiki has enough space to keep the 3.5e material - nothing need ever be deleted to save space on D&D Wiki. Secondly, if we want a link to 4e information from ENWorld then, I feel, that we should add it as a news item. Dmilewski can take care of this if this is the communities decision. Thirdly we need to figure out when the 4e SRD is coming out to see how much time we have to prepare for it. About the SRD (3.5e and 4e); we need to decide if we want a different namespace for the two SRD editions or if we want to organize them by their identifiers. Anyway, if the homebrew information is compatible we are looking at not too much work (and a much more useful and successful D&D Wiki). Let us hope... ''':)'''. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:10, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::I think ther homebrew stuff will mostlky ber compatable with 4e, but if not we will have to work to update the best stuff... --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:22, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Either the homebrew material is almost 100% good-to-go or it is not. We cannot have a medium on D&D Wiki. The reason we can not have a medium is because many many people will not switch over to 4e for a long time (or ever!) and we do want want these people to lose D&D Wiki as a recourse. If the two editions are not compatible we will have to have two separate pages like [[Dungeons and Dragons]] and we will have to have 3.5e classes, races, etc and 4e classes, races, etc. Again, we need to really know if they will be compatible or not (and if someone has any information please cite the source). --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:32, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::Yeah, I know, I was meaning as they are now... I have had a look at the articles on WotC website, and I seem to remember that the playtest report mentioned that a player was playing a psyon (because it was 3.5e) to see if it was compatible.--[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:42, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::::I volenteer to help updating homberew stuff to 4e should the need arise (hopefully it won't). --[[User:Sam Kay|Sam Kay]] 12:54, 18 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::::::I think that conversion of each section should be considered on a case-by-case basis. For example, magic items may only need a level assigned to them. That's an easy conversion worth doing. Classes and prestige classes will need to be entirely rewritten as trees, maneuvers, or such, if they are worth translating at all. <br />
<br />
:::::::My current belief is that we will need to split the content. That hoses the entire redirect initiative. (That was a reservation of mine with the redirect initiative. All the pages that I did for the SRD were hard-referenced. I used no redirects.) <br />
<br />
:::::::Campaign environments will be easiest to convert. Many simply implement the existing system, then list some house rules. For example, LotR and Wikiworld are both concept heavy, rules light. Wikiworld has always been rules light, as I wanted Wikiworld to work with any game system. I suggest that Sam keep LotR rules light, so as to keep it universal. <br />
<br />
==New Edition Issues==<br />
<br />
The following questions are both technical and procedural. There is no correct answer. These questions are here to collect upcoming issues with the wiki and decisions that should be considered. Please add to the list.<br />
<br />
====General architecture====<br />
* How best to manage a wiki filled with multiple editions and systems (3E, 4E, Modern, Etc.)<br />
====Namespaces====<br />
* Should we move things to a 3E namespace?<br />
* How do we want the namespaces to interact?<br />
* What should we do with articles that are identical between 3E and 4E (assuming there are any)?<br />
* Should campaigns get their own name space, or belong to their intended edition?<br />
* Redirects point to 3E SRD. Is there a way to have namespace relative redirects, where <nowiki>[[foo]]</nowiki> inside the <nowiki>[[SRD]]</nowiki> context points to <nowiki>[[SRD:Foo]]</nowiki> while <nowiki>[[foo]]</nowiki> in the 4E context points to <nowiki>[[SRD4:Foo]]</nowiki>. <br />
** I don't think it's possible, but I'm willing to be proven wrong. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:55, 21 August 2007 (MDT)<br />
====Site conversion====<br />
* How best to automate changes?<br />
* Should 3E redirect be systematically replace with hard page references?<br />
** I'm not sure I understand the question. Can you give an example? &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:55, 21 August 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mechanically_Inclined_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=116735Talk:Mechanically Inclined (3.5e Feat)2007-07-12T14:45:40Z<p>Cuthalion: /* Added Requirement */ more</p>
<hr />
<div>== Added Requirement ==<br />
<br />
I added Disable Device as a requirement for this feat. --[[User:Dmilewski|Dmilewski]] 08:43, 12 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Perhaps Open Locks and/or Search, as well? &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 08:45, 12 July 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Carrying_capacity&diff=115724Carrying capacity2007-07-06T00:06:36Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[SRD:Carrying Capacity (Rules)#Table: Carrying Capacity]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Carrying_capacity&diff=115723Carrying capacity2007-07-06T00:05:44Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[SRD:Carrying Capacity (Rules)]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Carrying_capacity&diff=115722Carrying capacity2007-07-06T00:05:24Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [SRD:Carrying Capacity (Rules)]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Paladin&diff=115613SRD Talk:Paladin2007-07-05T15:24:45Z<p>Cuthalion: /* Detect evil */ formatting</p>
<hr />
<div>== Wording ==<br />
<br />
Realizing it's SRD, no one has probably bothered to look more than just a cursory at it, but this lists the paladin as being proficient with 'martial weapons weapons'. {{Unsigned|63.151.152.45|14:12, 8 February 2007 (MST)}}<br />
<br />
:Look better now? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:17, 8 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Detect evil ==<br />
<br />
''Detect evil'' isn't listed in the class table. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:24, 5 July 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Paladin&diff=115612SRD Talk:Paladin2007-07-05T15:24:28Z<p>Cuthalion: Detect evil</p>
<hr />
<div>== Wording ==<br />
<br />
Realizing it's SRD, no one has probably bothered to look more than just a cursory at it, but this lists the paladin as being proficient with 'martial weapons weapons'. {{Unsigned|63.151.152.45|14:12, 8 February 2007 (MST)}}<br />
<br />
:Look better now? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 13:17, 8 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Detect evil ==<br />
<br />
'''Detect evil''' isn't listed in the class table. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:24, 5 July 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Dexterity&diff=115610SRD Talk:Dexterity2007-07-05T14:13:50Z<p>Cuthalion: Negative bonus?</p>
<hr />
<div>== Negative bonus? ==<br />
<br />
Does a Dexterity below 10 provide a negative bonus (i.e. penalty) to AC? I'm guessing not, since then you would have a better AC when flat-footed. But I haven't been able to find an authoritative answer anywhere. Thanks. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 08:13, 5 July 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Full_Plate_Armor&diff=115609SRD Talk:Full Plate Armor2007-07-05T13:45:43Z<p>Cuthalion: Masterwork?</p>
<hr />
<div>== Masterwork? ==<br />
<br />
I seem to recall that Full Plate is always masterwork quality, and that this is already figured into the price. Now I can't find where I read that. Did I make it up? If I'm right, the prices here need to be adjusted. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 07:45, 5 July 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Shield_Bash&diff=115511SRD Talk:Shield Bash2007-07-05T03:41:01Z<p>Cuthalion: /* Source? */ human?</p>
<hr />
<div>== Source? ==<br />
<br />
This text appears to be derived from the description of the heavy shield on p. 125 of the PHB, but with the word "heavy" deleted wherever it occurs. Is this observation correct? This seems a gross violation of SRD inalterability. The result is also wrong -- a light shield should be treated as a light weapon, not a "one-handed" weapon. Contrast [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#shieldBashAttacks d20srd.org]. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 21:40, 4 July 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
P.S. I'm not sure whether I'm flattered or offended to be told that I'm a human. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 21:41, 4 July 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=SRD_Talk:Shield_Bash&diff=115510SRD Talk:Shield Bash2007-07-05T03:40:06Z<p>Cuthalion: Source?</p>
<hr />
<div>== Source? ==<br />
<br />
This text appears to be derived from the description of the heavy shield on p. 125 of the PHB, but with the word "heavy" deleted wherever it occurs. Is this observation correct? This seems a gross violation of SRD inalterability. The result is also wrong -- a light shield should be treated as a light weapon, not a "one-handed" weapon. Contrast [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#shieldBashAttacks d20srd.org]. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 21:40, 4 July 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Weapons&diff=115460Weapons2007-07-04T16:38:21Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[SRD:Weapon Descriptions (Rules)]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Hold_the_Line&diff=115253Hold the Line2007-07-03T03:46:25Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[SRD:Hold the Line (Feat)]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Human_Paragon,_Variant_(3.5e_Racial_Paragon_Class)&diff=115248Human Paragon, Variant (3.5e Racial Paragon Class)2007-07-03T02:54:57Z<p>Cuthalion: /* Class Skills */ table id's</p>
<hr />
<div>{{OGL Top}}<br />
<br />
<dplc><br />
|{{Racial Paragon Class Description<br />
|Human Paragon (Variant)<br />
|NR<br />
|Combat-Focused, Stealthy, Moderate Spellcasting<br />
|The epitome of humanity.}}</dplc><br />
{{Balance}}<br />
<br />
{{author<br />
|author_name=Cuthalion<br />
|date_created=July 02, 2007<br />
|status=Finished<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Human Paragon ==<br />
<br />
[[Humans|Human]] inventors, explorers, and others who push the boundaries of knowledge and experience may become human paragons. They turn adversity into opportunity by finding new ways to apply their skills, discovering new techniques to solve problems, and challenging entropy by constantly seeking out ventures they have not yet mastered. Humans, and the paragons who rise from among them, balance strength with agility and temper intellect with intuition.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Adventures">Adventures</span><br />
<br />
Adventure occupies much of a human paragon's time. Whether impulsive or carefully studious, a human paragon searches almost constantly for the new and unexplored. Few, however, think of themselves as pioneers or inventors. They see themselves as naturally curious, deeming the intelligent and unusual way in which they use their skills to be the norm rather than an exception. Curiosity and wanderlust are easily the two most common motivations for undertaking adventures, but human paragons may find themselves on adventures as a result of a quest or some other necessary duty.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Characteristics">Characteristics</span><br />
<br />
Human paragons are inventiveness personified. They are adaptable and capable of using their skills in a broad variety of situations. Perhaps because they are capable in such a wide range of situations, human paragons tend to dislike repetition and crave variety. They seldom pass up a chance to indulge in a new experience, and a new challenge is much more likely to excite them than a lingering goal.<br />
<br />
If human paragons have a downfall, it is that they see themselves capable of overcoming any challenge or inventing a solution for any problem. When asked who would be best for a task, a human paragon almost always chooses himself — not out of overconfidence or egotism, but because he has learned through success after success that when backed into a corner, he'll almost always find a way out. <br />
<br />
; <span id="Alignment">Alignment</span><br />
<br />
Human paragons have few tendencies in [[alignment]]. Perhaps more are attracted to [[chaos]] over [[law]], although those who become devoted to a religion or cause seem to gravitate toward lawful deities or philosophies.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Religion">Religion</span><br />
<br />
Humans are as varied in their beliefs as they are in every other aspect of their lives, and human paragons are no exception. Many human paragons dabble in religion, learning a bit of one doctrine, following another deity for a brief time, and so on. Although these individuals seldom stay with one belief system for long, they become quite well versed in religion over time. While it's more common to find human paragons with only these surface attachments to religion, some human paragons develop a passion for worship that fuses seamlessly with their views of humanity, resulting in zealotry. In almost every case, these human paragons follow [[lawful]] deities and multiclass as [[clerics]] or [[paladins]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Background">Background</span><br />
<br />
Although there is no single common background for human paragons, many share some common characteristics. They often arise from situations in which they have many opportunities to learn, either from parents, an accepting community, or even a monastery filled with learned [[monks]] and [[clerics]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Races">Races</span><br />
<br />
Human paragons are open and accepting, embodying the best aspects of [[Humans|humanity's]] flexibility and tolerance. Human paragons usually delight in poking gentle fun at the foibles of other races, finding their extremes of behavior amusing. They also find much to admire in other races, including the stoic fortitude of the [[dwarves]], the beauty and grace of the [[elves]], and the curiosity and inventiveness of the [[halflings]]. In truth, human paragons are closer in attitude to halflings than any other race — both suffer (or benefit) from more than a touch of wanderlust.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Other Classes">Other Classes</span><br />
<br />
Human paragons are widely accepting of other classes. They value the presence of [[fighters]], [[rangers]], and other skilled combatants, knowing that they are more likely to survive a battle when teamed with such characters. They also understand the value of knowledge, and they regard spellcasters with a bit of awe. [[Rogues]] and [[bards]], closest in ability (if not in spirit) to human paragons, usually have skills that overlap the paragon's in several areas, allowing the paragon to diversify his learning rather than become overly specialized.<br />
<br />
== Game Rule Information ==<br />
<br />
Human paragons have the following game statistics.<br />
<br />
<span id="Abilities">'''Abilities:'''</span> Skilled and quick to adapt, human paragons benefit from a high [[Intelligence]]. But they are also often at the forefront of humanity's wars, making [[Strength]], [[Dexterity]], and [[Constitution]] important for their respective roles in combat.<br />
<br />
'''Race:''' [[Humans]].<br />
<br />
<span id="Alignment">'''Alignment:'''</span> Any.<br />
<br />
'''Hit Die:''' d8.<br />
<br />
===Class Skills===<br />
<br />
The human paragon can choose any ten skills as class skills. ([[Knowledge]] skills must be selected individually.)<br />
<br />
'''Skill Points at 1st Level:''' (4 + Int modifier) x4. (Does not include the [[Humans|human's]] 4 bonus skill points at 1st level.)<br />
<br />
'''Skill Points at Each Additional Level:''' 4 + Int modifier. (Does not include the [[Humans|human's]] bonus skill point at each level.)<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0 0 1em 1em;" id="Table: The Human Paragon (Warrior)"<br />
|-<br />
|+ '''Table: The Human Paragon (Warrior)'''<br />
|-<br />
!'''Level'''!!'''Base<br />Attack<br />Bonus'''!!'''Fort<br />Save'''!!'''Ref<br />Save'''!!'''Will<br />Save'''!!style="text-align: left" | '''Special'''<br />
|-<br />
|1st||+1||+2||+2||+0|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Variable Progression|Variable progression]], [[#Adaptive Learning (Ex)| Adaptive learning]]<br />
|- class="even"<br />
|2nd||+2||+3||+3||+0|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Bonus Feat (Ex)|Bonus feat]]<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||+3||+3||+3||+1|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Ability Boost (Ex)|Ability boost]] (+2)<br />
|-<br />
| class="skills" colspan="6" align="left" style="border: none" |<br />
'''Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level)''': Any ten skills.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0 0 1em 1em;" id="Table: The Human Paragon (Skilled)"<br />
|-<br />
|+ '''Table: The Human Paragon (Skilled)'''<br />
|-<br />
!'''Level'''!!'''Base<br />Attack<br />Bonus'''!!'''Fort<br />Save'''!!'''Ref<br />Save'''!!'''Will<br />Save'''!!style="text-align: left" | '''Special'''<br />
|-<br />
|1st||+0||+0||+2||+0|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Variable Progression|Variable progression]], [[#Adaptive Learning (Ex)| Adaptive learning]]<br />
|- class="even"<br />
|2nd||+1||+0||+3||+0|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Bonus Feat (Ex)|Bonus feat]]<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||+2||+1||+3||+1|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Ability Boost (Ex)|Ability boost]] (+2)<br />
|-<br />
| class="skills" colspan="6" align="left" style="border: none" |<br />
'''Class Skills (8 + Int modifier per level)''': Any ten skills.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 1em 0 1em 1em;" id="Table: The Human Paragon (Spellcaster)"<br />
|-<br />
|+ '''Table: The Human Paragon (Spellcaster)'''<br />
|-<br />
!'''Level'''!!'''Base<br />Attack<br />Bonus'''!!'''Fort<br />Save'''!!'''Ref<br />Save'''!!'''Will<br />Save'''!!style="text-align: left" | '''Special'''!!style="text-align: left" | '''[[#Spells per Day|Spells per Day]]'''<br />
|-<br />
|1st||+0||+0||+0||+2|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Variable Progression|Variable progression]], [[#Adaptive Learning (Ex)| Adaptive learning]] || style="text-align: left" | —<br />
|- class="even"<br />
|2nd||+1||+0||+0||+3|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Bonus Feat (Ex)|Bonus feat]] || style="text-align: left" | +1 level of existing class<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||+2||+1||+1||+3|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Ability Boost (Ex)|Ability boost]] (+2) || style="text-align: left" | +1 level of existing class<br />
|-<br />
| class="skills" colspan="6" align="left" style="border: none" |<br />
'''Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level)''': Any ten skills.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
===Class Features===<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the human paragon class.<br />
<br />
====Variable Progression====<br />
<br />
Human paragons are as varied as humans themselves. Upon selecting the human paragon class, a human paragon chooses either the [[#Table: The Human Paragon (Warrior)|Warrior]], [[#Table: The Human Paragon (Skilled)|Skilled]], or [[#Table: The Human Paragon (Spellcaster)|Spellcaster]] path. The character gains the class features associated with this path for all three levels.<br />
<br />
A character can take the human paragon class as many as three times, each time selecting a different path. A character may not take the same path twice. In effect, each progression acts as a distinct class.<br />
<br />
====Weapon and Armor Proficiency====<br />
<br />
Human paragons are proficient with all [[simple weapons]] and with [[light armor]]. In addition, a human paragon is proficient with any one [[Martial Weapons|martial weapon]] of his choice.<br />
<br />
====Spells per Day====<br />
<br />
At 2nd and 3rd level, a human paragon gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus metamagic or item creation feats, bard or assassin abilities, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of human paragon to the level in the spellcasting class, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly.<br />
<br />
If a character had more than one spellcasting class before he became a human paragon, he must decide to which class he adds each level of human paragon. If a human paragon has no levels in a spellcasting class, this class feature has no effect. <br />
<br />
====Adaptive Learning ([[Ex]])====<br />
<br />
At 1st level, a human paragon can designate any one of his human paragon class skills as an adaptive skill. This skill is treated as a [[class skill]] in all respects for all classes that character has levels in, both current and future. For example, if a human paragon chooses [[Spot]] as an adaptive skill, he treats Spot as a class skill for all future class levels he gains, even if it is not normally a class skill for the class in question.<br />
<br />
====Bonus Feat ([[Ex]])====<br />
<br />
At 2nd level, a human paragon gains a bonus [[feat]]. Due to the varied talents and adaptable nature of humans, this feat can be any feat for which the human paragon is qualified (he is not restricted to a special list of bonus feats). The character must meet the prerequisites for the bonus feat normally.<br />
<br />
A human paragon in the [[#Variable Progression|Skilled]] progression may select +1d6 [[Rogue#Sneak Attack|sneak attack]] in lieu of the 2nd level bonus skill.<br />
<br />
====Ability Boost ([[Ex]])====<br />
<br />
At 3rd level, a human paragon increases one ability score of his choice by 2 points.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
[[Dungeons and Dragons]]->[[DnD Classes]]<br />
[[Category:H]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Racial Paragon Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]<br />
[[Category:Stealthy]]<br />
[[Category:Moderate Spellcasting]]<br />
<br />
{{OGL Bottom|1=a variation/extension of the [[Human Paragon]] class from [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/881560000 Unearthed Arcana]|2=UA}}</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Human_Paragon,_Variant_(3.5e_Racial_Paragon_Class)&diff=115247Human Paragon, Variant (3.5e Racial Paragon Class)2007-07-03T02:49:23Z<p>Cuthalion: categories</p>
<hr />
<div>{{OGL Top}}<br />
<br />
<dplc><br />
|{{Racial Paragon Class Description<br />
|Human Paragon (Variant)<br />
|NR<br />
|Combat-Focused, Stealthy, Moderate Spellcasting<br />
|The epitome of humanity.}}</dplc><br />
{{Balance}}<br />
<br />
{{author<br />
|author_name=Cuthalion<br />
|date_created=July 02, 2007<br />
|status=Finished<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Human Paragon ==<br />
<br />
[[Humans|Human]] inventors, explorers, and others who push the boundaries of knowledge and experience may become human paragons. They turn adversity into opportunity by finding new ways to apply their skills, discovering new techniques to solve problems, and challenging entropy by constantly seeking out ventures they have not yet mastered. Humans, and the paragons who rise from among them, balance strength with agility and temper intellect with intuition.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Adventures">Adventures</span><br />
<br />
Adventure occupies much of a human paragon's time. Whether impulsive or carefully studious, a human paragon searches almost constantly for the new and unexplored. Few, however, think of themselves as pioneers or inventors. They see themselves as naturally curious, deeming the intelligent and unusual way in which they use their skills to be the norm rather than an exception. Curiosity and wanderlust are easily the two most common motivations for undertaking adventures, but human paragons may find themselves on adventures as a result of a quest or some other necessary duty.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Characteristics">Characteristics</span><br />
<br />
Human paragons are inventiveness personified. They are adaptable and capable of using their skills in a broad variety of situations. Perhaps because they are capable in such a wide range of situations, human paragons tend to dislike repetition and crave variety. They seldom pass up a chance to indulge in a new experience, and a new challenge is much more likely to excite them than a lingering goal.<br />
<br />
If human paragons have a downfall, it is that they see themselves capable of overcoming any challenge or inventing a solution for any problem. When asked who would be best for a task, a human paragon almost always chooses himself — not out of overconfidence or egotism, but because he has learned through success after success that when backed into a corner, he'll almost always find a way out. <br />
<br />
; <span id="Alignment">Alignment</span><br />
<br />
Human paragons have few tendencies in [[alignment]]. Perhaps more are attracted to [[chaos]] over [[law]], although those who become devoted to a religion or cause seem to gravitate toward lawful deities or philosophies.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Religion">Religion</span><br />
<br />
Humans are as varied in their beliefs as they are in every other aspect of their lives, and human paragons are no exception. Many human paragons dabble in religion, learning a bit of one doctrine, following another deity for a brief time, and so on. Although these individuals seldom stay with one belief system for long, they become quite well versed in religion over time. While it's more common to find human paragons with only these surface attachments to religion, some human paragons develop a passion for worship that fuses seamlessly with their views of humanity, resulting in zealotry. In almost every case, these human paragons follow [[lawful]] deities and multiclass as [[clerics]] or [[paladins]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Background">Background</span><br />
<br />
Although there is no single common background for human paragons, many share some common characteristics. They often arise from situations in which they have many opportunities to learn, either from parents, an accepting community, or even a monastery filled with learned [[monks]] and [[clerics]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Races">Races</span><br />
<br />
Human paragons are open and accepting, embodying the best aspects of [[Humans|humanity's]] flexibility and tolerance. Human paragons usually delight in poking gentle fun at the foibles of other races, finding their extremes of behavior amusing. They also find much to admire in other races, including the stoic fortitude of the [[dwarves]], the beauty and grace of the [[elves]], and the curiosity and inventiveness of the [[halflings]]. In truth, human paragons are closer in attitude to halflings than any other race — both suffer (or benefit) from more than a touch of wanderlust.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Other Classes">Other Classes</span><br />
<br />
Human paragons are widely accepting of other classes. They value the presence of [[fighters]], [[rangers]], and other skilled combatants, knowing that they are more likely to survive a battle when teamed with such characters. They also understand the value of knowledge, and they regard spellcasters with a bit of awe. [[Rogues]] and [[bards]], closest in ability (if not in spirit) to human paragons, usually have skills that overlap the paragon's in several areas, allowing the paragon to diversify his learning rather than become overly specialized.<br />
<br />
== Game Rule Information ==<br />
<br />
Human paragons have the following game statistics.<br />
<br />
<span id="Abilities">'''Abilities:'''</span> Skilled and quick to adapt, human paragons benefit from a high [[Intelligence]]. But they are also often at the forefront of humanity's wars, making [[Strength]], [[Dexterity]], and [[Constitution]] important for their respective roles in combat.<br />
<br />
'''Race:''' [[Humans]].<br />
<br />
<span id="Alignment">'''Alignment:'''</span> Any.<br />
<br />
'''Hit Die:''' d8.<br />
<br />
===Class Skills===<br />
<br />
The human paragon can choose any ten skills as class skills. ([[Knowledge]] skills must be selected individually.)<br />
<br />
'''Skill Points at 1st Level:''' (4 + Int modifier) x4. (Does not include the [[Humans|human's]] 4 bonus skill points at 1st level.)<br />
<br />
'''Skill Points at Each Additional Level:''' 4 + Int modifier. (Does not include the [[Humans|human's]] bonus skill point at each level.)<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0 0 1em 1em;"<br />
|-<br />
|+<span id="Table: The Human Paragon (Warrior)"></span>'''Table: The Human Paragon (Warrior)'''<br />
|-<br />
!'''Level'''!!'''Base<br />Attack<br />Bonus'''!!'''Fort<br />Save'''!!'''Ref<br />Save'''!!'''Will<br />Save'''!!style="text-align: left" | '''Special'''<br />
|-<br />
|1st||+1||+2||+2||+0|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Variable Progression|Variable progression]], [[#Adaptive Learning (Ex)| Adaptive learning]]<br />
|- class="even"<br />
|2nd||+2||+3||+3||+0|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Bonus Feat (Ex)|Bonus feat]]<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||+3||+3||+3||+1|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Ability Boost (Ex)|Ability boost]] (+2)<br />
|-<br />
| class="skills" colspan="6" align="left" style="border: none" |<br />
'''Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level)''': Any ten skills.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0 0 1em 1em;"<br />
|-<br />
|+<span id="Table: The Human Paragon (Skilled)"></span>'''Table: The Human Paragon (Skilled)'''<br />
|-<br />
!'''Level'''!!'''Base<br />Attack<br />Bonus'''!!'''Fort<br />Save'''!!'''Ref<br />Save'''!!'''Will<br />Save'''!!style="text-align: left" | '''Special'''<br />
|-<br />
|1st||+0||+0||+2||+0|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Variable Progression|Variable progression]], [[#Adaptive Learning (Ex)| Adaptive learning]]<br />
|- class="even"<br />
|2nd||+1||+0||+3||+0|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Bonus Feat (Ex)|Bonus feat]]<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||+2||+1||+3||+1|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Ability Boost (Ex)|Ability boost]] (+2)<br />
|-<br />
| class="skills" colspan="6" align="left" style="border: none" |<br />
'''Class Skills (8 + Int modifier per level)''': Any ten skills.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 1em 0 1em 1em;"<br />
|-<br />
|+<span id="Table: The Human Paragon (Spellcaster)"></span>'''Table: The Human Paragon (Spellcaster)'''<br />
|-<br />
!'''Level'''!!'''Base<br />Attack<br />Bonus'''!!'''Fort<br />Save'''!!'''Ref<br />Save'''!!'''Will<br />Save'''!!style="text-align: left" | '''Special'''!!style="text-align: left" | '''[[#Spells per Day|Spells per Day]]'''<br />
|-<br />
|1st||+0||+0||+0||+2|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Variable Progression|Variable progression]], [[#Adaptive Learning (Ex)| Adaptive learning]] || style="text-align: left" | —<br />
|- class="even"<br />
|2nd||+1||+0||+0||+3|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Bonus Feat (Ex)|Bonus feat]] || style="text-align: left" | +1 level of existing class<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||+2||+1||+1||+3|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Ability Boost (Ex)|Ability boost]] (+2) || style="text-align: left" | +1 level of existing class<br />
|-<br />
| class="skills" colspan="6" align="left" style="border: none" |<br />
'''Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level)''': Any ten skills.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
===Class Features===<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the human paragon class.<br />
<br />
====Variable Progression====<br />
<br />
Human paragons are as varied as humans themselves. Upon selecting the human paragon class, a human paragon chooses either the [[#Table: The Human Paragon (Warrior)|Warrior]], [[#Table: The Human Paragon (Skilled)|Skilled]], or [[#Table: The Human Paragon (Spellcaster)|Spellcaster]] path. The character gains the class features associated with this path for all three levels.<br />
<br />
A character can take the human paragon class as many as three times, each time selecting a different path. A character may not take the same path twice. In effect, each progression acts as a distinct class.<br />
<br />
====Weapon and Armor Proficiency====<br />
<br />
Human paragons are proficient with all [[simple weapons]] and with [[light armor]]. In addition, a human paragon is proficient with any one [[Martial Weapons|martial weapon]] of his choice.<br />
<br />
====Spells per Day====<br />
<br />
At 2nd and 3rd level, a human paragon gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus metamagic or item creation feats, bard or assassin abilities, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of human paragon to the level in the spellcasting class, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly.<br />
<br />
If a character had more than one spellcasting class before he became a human paragon, he must decide to which class he adds each level of human paragon. If a human paragon has no levels in a spellcasting class, this class feature has no effect. <br />
<br />
====Adaptive Learning ([[Ex]])====<br />
<br />
At 1st level, a human paragon can designate any one of his human paragon class skills as an adaptive skill. This skill is treated as a [[class skill]] in all respects for all classes that character has levels in, both current and future. For example, if a human paragon chooses [[Spot]] as an adaptive skill, he treats Spot as a class skill for all future class levels he gains, even if it is not normally a class skill for the class in question.<br />
<br />
====Bonus Feat ([[Ex]])====<br />
<br />
At 2nd level, a human paragon gains a bonus [[feat]]. Due to the varied talents and adaptable nature of humans, this feat can be any feat for which the human paragon is qualified (he is not restricted to a special list of bonus feats). The character must meet the prerequisites for the bonus feat normally.<br />
<br />
A human paragon in the [[#Variable Progression|Skilled]] progression may select +1d6 [[Rogue#Sneak Attack|sneak attack]] in lieu of the 2nd level bonus skill.<br />
<br />
====Ability Boost ([[Ex]])====<br />
<br />
At 3rd level, a human paragon increases one ability score of his choice by 2 points.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
[[Dungeons and Dragons]]->[[DnD Classes]]<br />
[[Category:H]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Racial Paragon Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]<br />
[[Category:Stealthy]]<br />
[[Category:Moderate Spellcasting]]<br />
<br />
{{OGL Bottom|1=a variation/extension of the [[Human Paragon]] class from [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/881560000 Unearthed Arcana]|2=UA}}</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Wood_Elf_Paragon_(3.5e_Racial_Paragon_Class)&diff=115223Wood Elf Paragon (3.5e Racial Paragon Class)2007-07-02T21:06:55Z<p>Cuthalion: /* Starting Age */ perform</p>
<hr />
<div>{{OGL Top}}<br />
<br />
<dplc><br />
|{{Racial Paragon Class Description<br />
|Wood Elf Paragon<br />
|NR<br />
|Combat-Focused, Stealthy<br />
|Sylvan warriors, the embodiment of wood elf virtues.}}</dplc><br />
{{Balance}}<br />
<br />
{{author<br />
|author_name=Cuthalion<br />
|date_created=July 02, 2007<br />
|status=Finished, except for a couple of gaps<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Wood Elf Paragon ==<br />
<br />
Accomplished with both spell and blade, elves move through the world at a pace removed from that of shorter-lived races. The elf race is storied beyond telling and peopled by heroes beyond counting. With their long life spans and many talents, elves excel in numerous areas and classes, but a few exemplify to an even greater degree the complex and powerful nature of their race.<br />
<br />
Less drawn to the [[arcane]] arts than other subraces, wood elf paragons excel in the skills of warfare and stealth, serving as the paramount defenders of the woodlands. Since this often puts them in conflict with other "civilized" races, wood elf paragons are more likely than their cousins to stray from the path of pure [[good]].<br />
<br />
===== Adventures =====<br />
<br />
<!-- typical motivation for paragon adventurers --><br />
<br />
===== Characteristics =====<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons are typically suspicious of outsiders, and when roused to action, deadly. They are swift and stealthy and have amazingly acute senses, allowing them to react far faster than opponents might expect. Their aptitude in both stealth and weapons makes them excellent at attacking from ambush, and their propensity to take [[ranger]] and [[rogue]] levels in addition to their paragon levels accentuates these strengths.<br />
<br />
===== Alignment =====<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons can be of any [[alignment]], but most are [[chaotic good]]. They see the world as a place of harmony, a place that can provide bounty to all those willing to live in peace so long as the strong are not permitted to oppress the weak.<br />
<br />
===== Religion =====<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons typically serve the gods of the forest. Those that pursue [[divine]] magic are more likely to become [[druid]]s than [[cleric]]s.<br />
<br />
===== Background =====<br />
<br />
<!-- where the paragon comes from --><br />
<br />
===== Races =====<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons are, for the most part, moderately suspicious of other [[race]]s. However, they are not overtly antagonistic unless threatened, and may even form close bonds with others of like mind.<br />
<br />
===== Other Classes =====<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons relate best to characters who revere nature and seek to live in harmony with the world around them, particularly [[ranger]]s and [[druid]]s. They often mistrust [[cleric]]s' reliance on alien gods, and heavily armored warriors have an approach to combat that wood elf paragons have a hard time appreciating.<br />
<br />
=== Game Rule Information ===<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons have the following game statistics.<br />
<br />
===== Abilities =====<br />
<br />
Agility and physical grace are hallmarks of the elf race, and a high [[Dexterity]] score helps a wood elf paragon avoid blows in combat and make more accurate ranged attacks. Dexterity can even (after the selection of the [[Weapon Finesse]] feat) aid in melee combat. A high [[Intelligence]] score allows a wood elf paragon to access a broader selection of skills, and a high [[Wisdom]] is important for some of the class's most important class skills.<br />
<br />
===== Alignment =====<br />
<br />
Most often CG, but can also be NG, N, or CN.<br />
<br />
===== Starting Age =====<br />
<br />
Moderate.<br />
<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" id="Table: The Wood Elf Paragon"<br />
|-<br />
|+ style="text-align: right;" | <div style="float: left;">Table: The Wood Elf Paragon</div> Hit Die: d8.<br />
|-<br />
! Level !! Base Attack Bonus !! Fort Save !! Ref Save !! Will Save !! style="text-align: left;" | Special<br />
|-<br />
|1st||+1||+2||+2||+0|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Elfsight (Ex)|Elfsight]], [[#Resist Enchantments (Ex)|Resist Enchantments]]<br />
|- class="even"<br />
|2nd||+2||+3||+3||+0|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Weapon Focus (Ex)|Weapon Focus]]<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||+3||+3||+3||+1|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Ability Boost (Ex)|Ability Boost]] ([[Dex]] +2)<br />
|-<br />
| class="skills" colspan="6" align="left" style="border: none" |<br />
'''Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level)'''<br/><br />
[[Climb (SRD Skill)|Climb]] [[Strength (SRD Term)|(Str)]], [[Concentration (SRD Skill)|Concentration]] [[Constitution (SRD Term)|(Con)]], [[Craft (SRD Skill)|Craft]] [[Intelligence (SRD Term)|(Int)]], [[Handle Animal (SRD Skill)|Handle Animal]] [[Charisma (SRD Term)|(Cha)]], [[Heal (SRD Skill)|Heal]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Hide (SRD Skill)|Hide]] [[Dexterity (SRD Term)|(Dex)]], [[Jump (SRD Skill)|Jump]] [[Strength (SRD Term)|(Str)]], [[Knowledge (SRD Skill)|Knowledge]] (any) ([[Intelligence (SRD Term)|Int]]), [[Listen (SRD Skill)|Listen]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Move Silently (SRD Skill)|Move Silently]] [[Dexterity (SRD Term)|(Dex)]], [[Perform]] (any) ([[Cha]]), [[Profession (SRD Skill)|Profession]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Ride (SRD Skill)|Ride]] [[Dexterity (SRD Term)|(Dex)]], [[Search (SRD Skill)|Search]] [[Intelligence (SRD Term)|(Int)]], [[Spot (SRD Skill)|Spot]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Survival (SRD Skill)|Survival]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Swim (SRD Skill)|Swim]] [[Strength (SRD Term)|(Str)]], and [[Use Rope (SRD Skill)|Use Rope]] [[Dexterity (SRD Term)|(Dex)]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
===Class Features===<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the wood elf paragon class.<br />
<br />
===== Weapon and Armor Proficiency =====<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons are proficient with all [[Simple Weapon Proficiency (SRD Feat)|simple]] and [[Martial Weapon Proficiency (SRD Feat)|martial weapons]], and with [[Armor Proficiency (Light) (SRD Feat)|light armor]] and [[Shield Proficiency (SRD Feat)|shields]] (except [[Tower Shield Proficiency (SRD Feat)|tower shields]]).<br />
<br />
===== Elfsight ([[Ex]]) =====<br />
<br />
A wood elf paragon has exceptional visual acuity. Her racial bonus on [[Search]] and [[Spot]] checks increases to +4. In addition, a wood elf paragon's [[low-light vision]] increases in range, allowing her to see three times as far as a [[human]] in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination.<br />
<br />
===== Resist Enchantments ([[Ex]]) =====<br />
<br />
A wood elf paragon's racial bonus on saves against [[enchantment]] spells or effects increases by 2.<br />
<br />
===== Weapon Focus ([[Ex]]) =====<br />
<br />
At 2nd level, a wood elf paragon gains [[Weapon Focus]] as a bonus feat. This feat must apply to either the [[rapier]], [[longsword]], [[shortsword]], [[shortbow]], [[longbow]], [[composite shortbow]], or [[composite longbow]].<br />
<br />
===== Ability Boost ([[Ex]]) =====<br />
<br />
At 3rd level, a wood elf paragon's [[Dexterity]] score increases by 2 points. <br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes|Classes]] <br />
[[Category:W]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Racial Paragon Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]<br />
[[Category:Stealthy]]<br />
<br />
{{OGL Bottom|1=adapted from the [[Elf Paragon]] class from [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/881560000 Unearthed Arcana]|2=OGC}}</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Human_Paragon,_Variant_(3.5e_Racial_Paragon_Class)&diff=115220Human Paragon, Variant (3.5e Racial Paragon Class)2007-07-02T20:27:46Z<p>Cuthalion: progressions</p>
<hr />
<div>{{OGL Top}}<br />
<br />
<dplc><br />
|{{Racial Paragon Class Description<br />
|Human Paragon (Variant)<br />
|NR<br />
|Combat-Focused, Stealthy, Moderate Spellcasting<br />
|The epitome of humanity.}}</dplc><br />
{{Balance}}<br />
<br />
{{author<br />
|author_name=Cuthalion<br />
|date_created=July 02, 2007<br />
|status=Finished<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Human Paragon ==<br />
<br />
[[Humans|Human]] inventors, explorers, and others who push the boundaries of knowledge and experience may become human paragons. They turn adversity into opportunity by finding new ways to apply their skills, discovering new techniques to solve problems, and challenging entropy by constantly seeking out ventures they have not yet mastered. Humans, and the paragons who rise from among them, balance strength with agility and temper intellect with intuition.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Adventures">Adventures</span><br />
<br />
Adventure occupies much of a human paragon's time. Whether impulsive or carefully studious, a human paragon searches almost constantly for the new and unexplored. Few, however, think of themselves as pioneers or inventors. They see themselves as naturally curious, deeming the intelligent and unusual way in which they use their skills to be the norm rather than an exception. Curiosity and wanderlust are easily the two most common motivations for undertaking adventures, but human paragons may find themselves on adventures as a result of a quest or some other necessary duty.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Characteristics">Characteristics</span><br />
<br />
Human paragons are inventiveness personified. They are adaptable and capable of using their skills in a broad variety of situations. Perhaps because they are capable in such a wide range of situations, human paragons tend to dislike repetition and crave variety. They seldom pass up a chance to indulge in a new experience, and a new challenge is much more likely to excite them than a lingering goal.<br />
<br />
If human paragons have a downfall, it is that they see themselves capable of overcoming any challenge or inventing a solution for any problem. When asked who would be best for a task, a human paragon almost always chooses himself — not out of overconfidence or egotism, but because he has learned through success after success that when backed into a corner, he'll almost always find a way out. <br />
<br />
; <span id="Alignment">Alignment</span><br />
<br />
Human paragons have few tendencies in [[alignment]]. Perhaps more are attracted to [[chaos]] over [[law]], although those who become devoted to a religion or cause seem to gravitate toward lawful deities or philosophies.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Religion">Religion</span><br />
<br />
Humans are as varied in their beliefs as they are in every other aspect of their lives, and human paragons are no exception. Many human paragons dabble in religion, learning a bit of one doctrine, following another deity for a brief time, and so on. Although these individuals seldom stay with one belief system for long, they become quite well versed in religion over time. While it's more common to find human paragons with only these surface attachments to religion, some human paragons develop a passion for worship that fuses seamlessly with their views of humanity, resulting in zealotry. In almost every case, these human paragons follow [[lawful]] deities and multiclass as [[clerics]] or [[paladins]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Background">Background</span><br />
<br />
Although there is no single common background for human paragons, many share some common characteristics. They often arise from situations in which they have many opportunities to learn, either from parents, an accepting community, or even a monastery filled with learned [[monks]] and [[clerics]].<br />
<br />
; <span id="Races">Races</span><br />
<br />
Human paragons are open and accepting, embodying the best aspects of [[Humans|humanity's]] flexibility and tolerance. Human paragons usually delight in poking gentle fun at the foibles of other races, finding their extremes of behavior amusing. They also find much to admire in other races, including the stoic fortitude of the [[dwarves]], the beauty and grace of the [[elves]], and the curiosity and inventiveness of the [[halflings]]. In truth, human paragons are closer in attitude to halflings than any other race — both suffer (or benefit) from more than a touch of wanderlust.<br />
<br />
; <span id="Other Classes">Other Classes</span><br />
<br />
Human paragons are widely accepting of other classes. They value the presence of [[fighters]], [[rangers]], and other skilled combatants, knowing that they are more likely to survive a battle when teamed with such characters. They also understand the value of knowledge, and they regard spellcasters with a bit of awe. [[Rogues]] and [[bards]], closest in ability (if not in spirit) to human paragons, usually have skills that overlap the paragon's in several areas, allowing the paragon to diversify his learning rather than become overly specialized.<br />
<br />
== Game Rule Information ==<br />
<br />
Human paragons have the following game statistics.<br />
<br />
<span id="Abilities">'''Abilities:'''</span> Skilled and quick to adapt, human paragons benefit from a high [[Intelligence]]. But they are also often at the forefront of humanity's wars, making [[Strength]], [[Dexterity]], and [[Constitution]] important for their respective roles in combat.<br />
<br />
'''Race:''' [[Humans]].<br />
<br />
<span id="Alignment">'''Alignment:'''</span> Any.<br />
<br />
'''Hit Die:''' d8.<br />
<br />
===Class Skills===<br />
<br />
The human paragon can choose any ten skills as class skills. ([[Knowledge]] skills must be selected individually.)<br />
<br />
'''Skill Points at 1st Level:''' (4 + Int modifier) x4. (Does not include the [[Humans|human's]] 4 bonus skill points at 1st level.)<br />
<br />
'''Skill Points at Each Additional Level:''' 4 + Int modifier. (Does not include the [[Humans|human's]] bonus skill point at each level.)<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0 0 1em 1em;"<br />
|-<br />
|+<span id="Table: The Human Paragon (Warrior)"></span>'''Table: The Human Paragon (Warrior)'''<br />
|-<br />
!'''Level'''!!'''Base<br />Attack<br />Bonus'''!!'''Fort<br />Save'''!!'''Ref<br />Save'''!!'''Will<br />Save'''!!style="text-align: left" | '''Special'''<br />
|-<br />
|1st||+1||+2||+2||+0|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Variable Progression|Variable progression]], [[#Adaptive Learning (Ex)| Adaptive learning]]<br />
|- class="even"<br />
|2nd||+2||+3||+3||+0|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Bonus Feat (Ex)|Bonus feat]]<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||+3||+3||+3||+1|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Ability Boost (Ex)|Ability boost]] (+2)<br />
|-<br />
| class="skills" colspan="6" align="left" style="border: none" |<br />
'''Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level)''': Any ten skills.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 0 0 1em 1em;"<br />
|-<br />
|+<span id="Table: The Human Paragon (Skilled)"></span>'''Table: The Human Paragon (Skilled)'''<br />
|-<br />
!'''Level'''!!'''Base<br />Attack<br />Bonus'''!!'''Fort<br />Save'''!!'''Ref<br />Save'''!!'''Will<br />Save'''!!style="text-align: left" | '''Special'''<br />
|-<br />
|1st||+0||+0||+2||+0|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Variable Progression|Variable progression]], [[#Adaptive Learning (Ex)| Adaptive learning]]<br />
|- class="even"<br />
|2nd||+1||+0||+3||+0|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Bonus Feat (Ex)|Bonus feat]]<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||+2||+1||+3||+1|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Ability Boost (Ex)|Ability boost]] (+2)<br />
|-<br />
| class="skills" colspan="6" align="left" style="border: none" |<br />
'''Class Skills (8 + Int modifier per level)''': Any ten skills.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" style="float: right; clear: right; margin: 1em 0 1em 1em;"<br />
|-<br />
|+<span id="Table: The Human Paragon (Spellcaster)"></span>'''Table: The Human Paragon (Spellcaster)'''<br />
|-<br />
!'''Level'''!!'''Base<br />Attack<br />Bonus'''!!'''Fort<br />Save'''!!'''Ref<br />Save'''!!'''Will<br />Save'''!!style="text-align: left" | '''Special'''!!style="text-align: left" | '''[[#Spells per Day|Spells per Day]]'''<br />
|-<br />
|1st||+0||+0||+0||+2|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Variable Progression|Variable progression]], [[#Adaptive Learning (Ex)| Adaptive learning]] || style="text-align: left" | —<br />
|- class="even"<br />
|2nd||+1||+0||+0||+3|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Bonus Feat (Ex)|Bonus feat]] || style="text-align: left" | +1 level of existing class<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||+2||+1||+1||+3|| style="text-align: left" | [[#Ability Boost (Ex)|Ability boost]] (+2) || style="text-align: left" | +1 level of existing class<br />
|-<br />
| class="skills" colspan="6" align="left" style="border: none" |<br />
'''Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level)''': Any ten skills.<br />
|}<br />
<br />
===Class Features===<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the human paragon class.<br />
<br />
====Variable Progression====<br />
<br />
Human paragons are as varied as humans themselves. Upon selecting the human paragon class, a human paragon chooses either the [[#Table: The Human Paragon (Warrior)|Warrior]], [[#Table: The Human Paragon (Skilled)|Skilled]], or [[#Table: The Human Paragon (Spellcaster)|Spellcaster]] path. The character gains the class features associated with this path for all three levels.<br />
<br />
A character can take the human paragon class as many as three times, each time selecting a different path. A character may not take the same path twice. In effect, each progression acts as a distinct class.<br />
<br />
====Weapon and Armor Proficiency====<br />
<br />
Human paragons are proficient with all [[simple weapons]] and with [[light armor]]. In addition, a human paragon is proficient with any one [[Martial Weapons|martial weapon]] of his choice.<br />
<br />
====Spells per Day====<br />
<br />
At 2nd and 3rd level, a human paragon gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus metamagic or item creation feats, bard or assassin abilities, and so on). This essentially means that he adds the level of human paragon to the level in the spellcasting class, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly.<br />
<br />
If a character had more than one spellcasting class before he became a human paragon, he must decide to which class he adds each level of human paragon. If a human paragon has no levels in a spellcasting class, this class feature has no effect. <br />
<br />
====Adaptive Learning ([[Ex]])====<br />
<br />
At 1st level, a human paragon can designate any one of his human paragon class skills as an adaptive skill. This skill is treated as a [[class skill]] in all respects for all classes that character has levels in, both current and future. For example, if a human paragon chooses [[Spot]] as an adaptive skill, he treats Spot as a class skill for all future class levels he gains, even if it is not normally a class skill for the class in question.<br />
<br />
====Bonus Feat ([[Ex]])====<br />
<br />
At 2nd level, a human paragon gains a bonus [[feat]]. Due to the varied talents and adaptable nature of humans, this feat can be any feat for which the human paragon is qualified (he is not restricted to a special list of bonus feats). The character must meet the prerequisites for the bonus feat normally.<br />
<br />
A human paragon in the [[#Variable Progression|Skilled]] progression may select +1d6 [[Rogue#Sneak Attack|sneak attack]] in lieu of the 2nd level bonus skill.<br />
<br />
====Ability Boost ([[Ex]])====<br />
<br />
At 3rd level, a human paragon increases one ability score of his choice by 2 points.<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
[[Dungeons and Dragons]]->[[DnD Classes]]<br />
<br />
{{OGL Bottom|1=a variation/extension of the [[Human Paragon]] class from [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/881560000 Unearthed Arcana]|2=UA}}</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=OGC_Racial_Paragon_Classes&diff=115219OGC Racial Paragon Classes2007-07-02T19:51:07Z<p>Cuthalion: exclude user classes</p>
<hr />
<div>Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]]->[[DnD Classes]]<br />
----<br />
<br />
<br />
These are all of the Racial Paragon Classes that are OGC from sourcebooks on D&D Wiki.<br />
<br />
<br />
To add your own Racial Paragon Class to D&D Wiki, click '''[[Add New DnD Class|here.]]'''<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
<DPL><br />
category=OGL<br />
category=Class<br />
category=Racial Paragon Class<br />
notcategory=User<br />
order=ascending<br />
mode=category<br />
redirects=include<br />
</DPL></div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Wood_Elf_Paragon_(3.5e_Racial_Paragon_Class)&diff=115208Wood Elf Paragon (3.5e Racial Paragon Class)2007-07-02T18:28:30Z<p>Cuthalion: Finished</p>
<hr />
<div>{{OGL Top}}<br />
<br />
<dplc><br />
|{{Racial Paragon Class Description<br />
|Wood Elf Paragon<br />
|NR<br />
|Combat-Focused, Stealthy<br />
|Sylvan warriors, the embodiment of wood elf virtues.}}</dplc><br />
{{Balance}}<br />
<br />
{{author<br />
|author_name=Cuthalion<br />
|date_created=July 02, 2007<br />
|status=Finished, except for a couple of gaps<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Wood Elf Paragon ==<br />
<br />
Accomplished with both spell and blade, elves move through the world at a pace removed from that of shorter-lived races. The elf race is storied beyond telling and peopled by heroes beyond counting. With their long life spans and many talents, elves excel in numerous areas and classes, but a few exemplify to an even greater degree the complex and powerful nature of their race.<br />
<br />
Less drawn to the [[arcane]] arts than other subraces, wood elf paragons excel in the skills of warfare and stealth, serving as the paramount defenders of the woodlands. Since this often puts them in conflict with other "civilized" races, wood elf paragons are more likely than their cousins to stray from the path of pure [[good]].<br />
<br />
===== Adventures =====<br />
<br />
<!-- typical motivation for paragon adventurers --><br />
<br />
===== Characteristics =====<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons are typically suspicious of outsiders, and when roused to action, deadly. They are swift and stealthy and have amazingly acute senses, allowing them to react far faster than opponents might expect. Their aptitude in both stealth and weapons makes them excellent at attacking from ambush, and their propensity to take [[ranger]] and [[rogue]] levels in addition to their paragon levels accentuates these strengths.<br />
<br />
===== Alignment =====<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons can be of any [[alignment]], but most are [[chaotic good]]. They see the world as a place of harmony, a place that can provide bounty to all those willing to live in peace so long as the strong are not permitted to oppress the weak.<br />
<br />
===== Religion =====<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons typically serve the gods of the forest. Those that pursue [[divine]] magic are more likely to become [[druid]]s than [[cleric]]s.<br />
<br />
===== Background =====<br />
<br />
<!-- where the paragon comes from --><br />
<br />
===== Races =====<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons are, for the most part, moderately suspicious of other [[race]]s. However, they are not overtly antagonistic unless threatened, and may even form close bonds with others of like mind.<br />
<br />
===== Other Classes =====<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons relate best to characters who revere nature and seek to live in harmony with the world around them, particularly [[ranger]]s and [[druid]]s. They often mistrust [[cleric]]s' reliance on alien gods, and heavily armored warriors have an approach to combat that wood elf paragons have a hard time appreciating.<br />
<br />
=== Game Rule Information ===<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons have the following game statistics.<br />
<br />
===== Abilities =====<br />
<br />
Agility and physical grace are hallmarks of the elf race, and a high [[Dexterity]] score helps a wood elf paragon avoid blows in combat and make more accurate ranged attacks. Dexterity can even (after the selection of the [[Weapon Finesse]] feat) aid in melee combat. A high [[Intelligence]] score allows a wood elf paragon to access a broader selection of skills, and a high [[Wisdom]] is important for some of the class's most important class skills.<br />
<br />
===== Alignment =====<br />
<br />
Most often CG, but can also be NG, N, or CN.<br />
<br />
===== Starting Age =====<br />
<br />
Moderate.<br />
<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" id="Table: The Wood Elf Paragon"<br />
|-<br />
|+ style="text-align: right;" | <div style="float: left;">Table: The Wood Elf Paragon</div> Hit Die: d8.<br />
|-<br />
! Level !! Base<br />Attack Bonus !! Fort<br />Save !! Ref<br />Save !! Will<br />Save !! style="text-align: left;" | Special<br />
|-<br />
|1st||+1||+2||+2||+0|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Elfsight (Ex)|Elfsight]], [[#Resist Enchantments (Ex)|Resist Enchantments]]<br />
|- class="even"<br />
|2nd||+2||+3||+3||+0|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Weapon Focus (Ex)|Weapon Focus]]<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||+3||+3||+3||+1|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Ability Boost (Ex)|Ability Boost]] ([[Dex]] +2)<br />
|-<br />
| class="skills" colspan="6" align="left" style="border: none" |<br />
'''Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level)'''<br/><br />
[[Climb (SRD Skill)|Climb]] [[Strength (SRD Term)|(Str)]], [[Concentration (SRD Skill)|Concentration]] [[Constitution (SRD Term)|(Con)]], [[Craft (SRD Skill)|Craft]] [[Intelligence (SRD Term)|(Int)]], [[Handle Animal (SRD Skill)|Handle Animal]] [[Charisma (SRD Term)|(Cha)]], [[Heal (SRD Skill)|Heal]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Hide (SRD Skill)|Hide]] [[Dexterity (SRD Term)|(Dex)]], [[Jump (SRD Skill)|Jump]] [[Strength (SRD Term)|(Str)]], [[Knowledge (SRD Skill)|Knowledge]] (any) ([[Intelligence (SRD Term)|Int]]), [[Listen (SRD Skill)|Listen]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Move Silently (SRD Skill)|Move Silently]] [[Dexterity (SRD Term)|(Dex)]], [[Profession (SRD Skill)|Profession]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Ride (SRD Skill)|Ride]] [[Dexterity (SRD Term)|(Dex)]], [[Search (SRD Skill)|Search]] [[Intelligence (SRD Term)|(Int)]], [[Spot (SRD Skill)|Spot]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Survival (SRD Skill)|Survival]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Swim (SRD Skill)|Swim]] [[Strength (SRD Term)|(Str)]], and [[Use Rope (SRD Skill)|Use Rope]] [[Dexterity (SRD Term)|(Dex)]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
===Class Features===<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the wood elf paragon class.<br />
<br />
===== Weapon and Armor Proficiency =====<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons are proficient with all [[Simple Weapon Proficiency (SRD Feat)|simple]] and [[Martial Weapon Proficiency (SRD Feat)|martial weapons]], and with [[Armor Proficiency (Light) (SRD Feat)|light armor]] and [[Shield Proficiency (SRD Feat)|shields]] (except [[Tower Shield Proficiency (SRD Feat)|tower shields]]).<br />
<br />
===== Elfsight ([[Ex]]) =====<br />
<br />
A wood elf paragon has exceptional visual acuity. Her racial bonus on [[Search]] and [[Spot]] checks increases to +4. In addition, a wood elf paragon's [[low-light vision]] increases in range, allowing her to see three times as far as a [[human]] in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination.<br />
<br />
===== Resist Enchantments ([[Ex]]) =====<br />
<br />
A wood elf paragon's racial bonus on saves against [[enchantment]] spells or effects increases by 2.<br />
<br />
===== Weapon Focus ([[Ex]]) =====<br />
<br />
At 2nd level, a wood elf paragon gains [[Weapon Focus]] as a bonus feat. This feat must apply to either the [[rapier]], [[longsword]], [[shortsword]], [[shortbow]], [[longbow]], [[composite shortbow]], or [[composite longbow]].<br />
<br />
===== Ability Boost ([[Ex]]) =====<br />
<br />
At 3rd level, a wood elf paragon's [[Dexterity]] score increases by 2 points. <br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes|Classes]] <br />
[[Category:W]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Racial Paragon Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]<br />
[[Category:Stealthy]]<br />
<br />
{{OGL Bottom|1=adapted from the [[Elf Paragon]] class from [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/881560000 Unearthed Arcana]|2=OGC}}</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Shortsword&diff=115207Shortsword2007-07-02T18:25:20Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#redirect [[SRD:Sword, Short (Weapon)]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=UA_talk:Half-Elf_Paragon&diff=115198UA talk:Half-Elf Paragon2007-07-02T17:52:06Z<p>Cuthalion: Elven vision</p>
<hr />
<div>== Elven vision ==<br />
<br />
The description of elven vision doesn't make sense. See [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfElfParagon d20srd]. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 11:52, 2 July 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Wood_Elf_Paragon_(3.5e_Racial_Paragon_Class)&diff=115197Wood Elf Paragon (3.5e Racial Paragon Class)2007-07-02T17:39:03Z<p>Cuthalion: working</p>
<hr />
<div><dplc><br />
|{{Racial Paragon Class Description<br />
|Wood Elf Paragon<br />
|NR<br />
|Combat-Focused, Stealthy<br />
|Sylvan warriors, the embodiment of wood elf virtues.}}</dplc><br />
{{Balance}}<br />
<br />
{{author<br />
|author_name=Cuthalion<br />
|date_created=July 02, 2007<br />
|status=Incubating<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Wood Elf Paragon ==<br />
<br />
Accomplished with both spell and blade, elves move through the world at a pace removed from that of shorter-lived races. The elf race is storied beyond telling and peopled by heroes beyond counting. With their long life spans and many talents, elves excel in numerous areas and classes, but a few exemplify to an even greater degree the complex and powerful nature of their race.<br />
<br />
In contrast to other subraces, wood elf paragons excel in the skills of warfare and stealth, serving as the paramount defenders of the woodlands. Since this often puts them in conflict with other "civilized" races, wood elf paragons are more likely than their various cousins to stray from the path of pure good.<br />
<br />
===== Adventures =====<br />
<br />
<!-- stuff about adventuring paragons --><br />
<br />
===== Characteristics =====<br />
<br />
<!-- --><br />
<br />
===== Alignment =====<br />
<br />
Most often CG, but can also be NG, N, or CN.<br />
<br />
===== Religion =====<br />
<br />
<!-- --><br />
<br />
===== Background =====<br />
<br />
<!-- from where the paragon comes --><br />
<br />
===== Races =====<br />
<br />
<!-- relationships with other races --><br />
<br />
===== Other Classes =====<br />
<br />
<!-- other classes usually partnered with racial paragon class --><br />
<br />
=== Game Rule Information ===<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons have the following game statistics.<br />
<br />
===== Abilities =====<br />
<br />
<!-- fluff about useful abilities for paragons --><br />
<br />
===== Alignment =====<br />
<br />
Most often CG, but can also be NG, N, or CN.<br />
<br />
===== Starting Age =====<br />
<br />
Moderate.<br />
<br />
<br />
{| class="d20" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" id="Table: The Wood Elf Paragon"<br />
|-<br />
|+ style="text-align: right;" | <div style="float: left;">Table: The Wood Elf Paragon</div> Hit Die: d8.<br />
|-<br />
! Level !! Base<br />Attack Bonus !! Fort<br />Save !! Ref<br />Save !! Will<br />Save !! style="text-align: left;" | Special !! style="text-align: left;" | [[#Spells per Day|Spells per Day]]<br />
|-<br />
|1st||+0||+0||+2||+0|| style="text-align: left;" | <!-- Class feature --> || style="text-align: left;" |<br />
|- class="even"<br />
|2nd||+1||+0||+3||+0|| style="text-align: left;" | <!-- Class feature --> || style="text-align: left;" |<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||+2||+1||+3||+1|| style="text-align: left;" | <!-- Class feature --> || style="text-align: left;" |<br />
|-<br />
| class="skills" colspan="7" |<br />
'''Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level)'''<br/><br />
[[Climb (SRD Skill)|Climb]] [[Strength (SRD Term)|(Str)]], [[Concentration (SRD Skill)|Concentration]] [[Constitution (SRD Term)|(Con)]], [[Craft (SRD Skill)|Craft]] [[Intelligence (SRD Term)|(Int)]], [[Handle Animal (SRD Skill)|Handle Animal]] [[Charisma (SRD Term)|(Cha)]], [[Heal (SRD Skill)|Heal]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Hide (SRD Skill)|Hide]] [[Dexterity (SRD Term)|(Dex)]], [[Jump (SRD Skill)|Jump]] [[Strength (SRD Term)|(Str)]], [[Knowledge (SRD Skill)|Knowledge]] (any) ([[Intelligence (SRD Term)|Int]]), [[Listen (SRD Skill)|Listen]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Move Silently (SRD Skill)|Move Silently]] [[Dexterity (SRD Term)|(Dex)]], [[Profession (SRD Skill)|Profession]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Ride (SRD Skill)|Ride]] [[Dexterity (SRD Term)|(Dex)]], [[Search (SRD Skill)|Search]] [[Intelligence (SRD Term)|(Int)]], [[Spot (SRD Skill)|Spot]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Survival (SRD Skill)|Survival]] [[Wisdom (SRD Term)|(Wis)]], [[Swim (SRD Skill)|Swim]] [[Strength (SRD Term)|(Str)]], and [[Use Rope (SRD Skill)|Use Rope]] [[Dexterity (SRD Term)|(Dex)]].<br />
|}<br />
<br />
===Class Features===<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the wood elf paragon class.<br />
<br />
===== Weapon and Armor Proficiency =====<br />
<br />
Wood elf paragons are proficient with all [[Simple Weapon Proficiency (SRD Feat)|simple]] and [[Martial Weapon Proficiency (SRD Feat)|martial weapons]], and with [[Armor Proficiency (Light) (SRD Feat)|light armor]] and [[Shield Proficiency (SRD Feat)|shields]] (except [[Tower Shield Proficiency (SRD Feat)|tower shields]]).<br />
<br />
===== <!-- class feature. be sure to label as (Ex), (Su), (Sp), or (Ps) if applicable --> =====<br />
<br />
<!-- game rule info about class feature --><br />
<br />
===== <!-- Another class feature. be sure to label as (Ex), (Su), (Sp), or (Ps) if applicable --> =====<br />
<br />
<!-- game rule info about class feature. Repeat as necessary --><br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] > [[DnD Classes|Classes]] <br />
[[Category:W]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Racial Paragon Class]]<br />
[[Category:Combat-Focused]]<br />
[[Category:Stealthy]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:OGC_Racial_Paragon_Classes&diff=115168Talk:OGC Racial Paragon Classes2007-07-02T15:47:38Z<p>Cuthalion: Empty</p>
<hr />
<div>== What Does OGC Stand For? ==<br />
<br />
What does OGC mean? (Nevermind: Open Gaming Content) {{Unsigned|38.113.135.197|2007-02-14 09:49:29}}<br />
<br />
: Actually it's "Open '''Game''' Content." &mdash;[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 10:39, 15 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Empty ==<br />
<br />
This page is empty, even though there are 11 [[All Racial Paragon Classes|paragon classes]] that should qualify. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 09:47, 2 July 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Bonus_Language&diff=114758Bonus Language2007-06-28T14:07:30Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[SRD:Races#RACE AND LANGUAGES]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Martial&diff=114756Martial2007-06-28T14:04:27Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[SRD:Martial Weapon Proficiency (Feat)]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Hobgoblin&diff=114755Hobgoblin2007-06-28T14:02:35Z<p>Cuthalion: redirect</p>
<hr />
<div>#REDIRECT [[SRD:Hobgoblin (Creature)]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Courier_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)&diff=114372Courier (3.5e Prestige Class)2007-06-27T14:23:46Z<p>Cuthalion: /* Prerequisites */ signature</p>
<hr />
<div><dplc>Courier (DnD Prestige Class)|{{PrC Description|Courier|9|Skilled, Separate Spellcasting|When it absolutely, positively, has to be there overnight.|10|5}}</dplc><br />
{{Balance|9}}<br />
{{author|author_name=Cuthalion|date_created=February 13, 2007|status=Completed}}<br />
<br />
=Courier=<br />
<br />
''The Couriers are an elite guild who boast that they can get a message or package to anyone, anywhere, in record time – for an appropriate fee. Requirements for admission to the guild are rigorous, but any courier can expect all reasonable help from any guild outpost, including a fresh mount, supplies, even an armed escort if warranted. In return, for each job the courier tithes 10% of all proceeds to the guild, or cost of guild expenses, whichever is higher. Any non-guild member who works a job with a guild member is also expected to tithe 10%.''<br />
<br />
''Outposts are typically found in towns about a day's ride apart in civilized country, more sparsely in border regions. Outposts are also sources of information regarding potential contracts, available freely to all guild members.''<br />
<br />
''Couriers remain steadfastly neutral in any conflict. Anyone who knowingly harms a courier, other than in self-defense, can expect at the very least a guild boycott, possibly more severe retribution.''<br />
<br />
''Because of their wide array of skills, couriers are occasionally hired for extra sensitive missions, such as spying or assassination. Moonlighters act without guild aid and protection, but they are still expected to tithe 10% of proceeds to the guild.''<br />
<br />
''Couriers come from virtually all classes, with the exception of [[paladins]], whose code of honor is incompatible with courier neutrality.''<br />
<br />
==Prerequisites==<br />
<br />
* '''Alignment:''' Any neutral.<br />
* '''Feats:''' [[Dodge]], [[Endurance]], [[Run]].<br />
* '''Skills:''' [[Gather Information]] 8 ranks, [[Hide]] 8 ranks, [[Knowledge]] (geography) 4 ranks, [[Move Silently]] 8 ranks, [[Speak Language]] any 4 languages.<br />
* '''Base Speed:''' 40 feet in any [[movement mode]]. <!-- <small>''This requirement should be reduced to 30 feet unless your campaign uses the [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick Quick] trait or has another relatively easy way to increase base land speed.''</small> I'm commenting this out because of the existence of Barbarian and Scout classes. Halflings may still find it difficult to qualify, but that's the nature of the beast. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 08:23, 27 June 2007 (MDT) --><br />
* '''Special:''' 2000 GP one-time referral fee. A character cannot take levels in both courier and [[courier mage]].<br />
<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|+ style="text-align: right;" | <div style="float: left;" id="Table: The Courier">Table: The Courier</div> Hit Die: d6<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[Base Attack Bonus (terminology)|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[Saving Throw (SRD Rules)|Saving Throws]]<br />
! rowspan="2" style="text-align: left;" | Special<br />
! colspan="4" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]<br />
! colspan="4" | [[#Spells|Spells Known]]<br />
|-<br />
! Fort !! Ref !! Will<br />
! 1<sup>st</sup> !! 2<sup>nd</sup> !! 3<sup>rd</sup> !! 4<sup>th</sup><br />
! 1<sup>st</sup> !! 2<sup>nd</sup> !! 3<sup>rd</sup> !! 4<sup>th</sup><br />
|-<br />
| 1<sup>st</sup> ||+0||+0||+2||+2|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Sense of Direction|Sense of direction]] ||0||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||2||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||&nbsp;<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 2<sup>nd</sup> ||+1||+0||+3||+3|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Fast Movement|Fast movement]] +10 ||1||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||3||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||&nbsp;<br />
|-<br />
| 3<sup>rd</sup> ||+2||+1||+3||+3|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Evasion|Evasion]] ||2||0||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||3||2||&nbsp;||&nbsp;<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 4<sup>th</sup> ||+3||+1||+4||+4|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Unbreakable Stride|Unbreakable stride]] ||3||1||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||4||3||&nbsp;||&nbsp;<br />
|-<br />
| 5<sup>th</sup> ||+3||+1||+4||+4|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Uncanny Dodge|Uncanny dodge]] ||3||2||0||&nbsp;||4||3||2||&nbsp;<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 6<sup>th</sup> ||+4||+2||+5||+5|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Fast Movement|Fast movement]] +20 ||3||3||1||&nbsp;||4||4||3||&nbsp;<br />
|-<br />
| 7<sup>th</sup> ||+5||+2||+5||+5|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Improved Evasion|Improved evasion]] ||3||3||2||0||4||4||3||2<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 8<sup>th</sup> ||+6||+2||+6||+6|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Freedom of Movement|Freedom of movement]] ||3||3||3||1||4||4||4||3<br />
|-<br />
| 9<sup>th</sup> ||+6||+3||+6||+6|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Improved Uncanny Dodge|Improved uncanny dodge]] ||3||3||3||2||4||4||4||3<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 10<sup>th</sup> ||+7||+3||+7||+7|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Fast Movement|Fast movement]] +30 ||3||3||3||3||4||4||4||4<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Class Skills (6 + Int modifier per level):'''<br />
[[Balance]] ([[Dex]]), [[Bluff]] ([[Cha]]), [[Climb]] ([[Str]]), [[Concentration]] ([[Con]]), [[Craft]] (any) ([[Int]]), [[Decipher Script]] ([[Int]]), [[Diplomacy]] ([[Cha]]), [[Disguise]] ([[Cha]]), [[Escape Artist]] ([[Dex]]), [[Forgery]] ([[Int]]), [[Gather Information]] ([[Cha]]), [[Hide]] ([[Dex]]), [[Jump]] ([[Str]]), [[Knowledge]] (any) ([[Int]]), [[Listen]] ([[Wis]]), [[Move Silently]] ([[Dex]]), [[Ride]] ([[Dex]]), [[Sense Motive]] ([[Wis]]), [[Speak Language]] (any) (n/a), [[Spot]] ([[Wis]]), [[Survival]] ([[Wis]]), [[Swim]] ([[Str]]), and [[Use Rope]] ([[Dex]]).<br />
<br />
==Class Features==<br />
<br />
''All of the following are class features of the courier:''<br />
<br />
<span id="Weapon and Armor Proficiency"></span>'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:'''<br />
A courier does not gain any proficiency with weapons or armor.<br />
<br />
<span id="Sense of Direction"></span>'''Sense of Direction ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
A courier has an uncanny knack for determining direction. The character can determine, at will, which way is north, and can infallibly retrace or backtrack any path she has taken before.<br />
<br />
<span id="Fast Movement"></span>'''Fast Movement ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
At 2<sup>nd</sup> level, a courier gains a +10 enhancement to base speed in her primary [[movement mode]], when wearing light or no [[armor]] and carrying no more than a [[Encumbrance|light load]]. This bonus increases to +20 at 6<sup>th</sup> level and +30 at 10<sup>th</sup> level. The bonus stacks with the fast movement ability of any other class.<br />
<br />
<span id="Evasion"></span>'''Evasion ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
Starting at 3<sup>rd</sup> level, if a courier makes a successful Reflex [[saving throw]] against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the courier is wearing light or no [[armor]], and is not [[helpless]], [[cowering]], or [[stunned]].<br />
<br />
If the courier already has evasion from another class, she instead gains [[#Improved Evasion|improved evasion]].<br />
<br />
<span id="Unbreakable Stride"></span>'''Unbreakable Stride ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
Starting at 4<sup>th</sup> level, a courier can move through any natural terrain, even underwater, at her normal speed. This ability does not prevent natural damage (e.g. from lava), does not counteract any magical effects, and does not impart any other special abilities (e.g. breathing underwater).<br />
<br />
Furthermore, the courier can move at full normal speed without penalty to [[Balance]], [[Hide]], [[Move Silently]], or [[Tumble]] checks, and can [[Climb]] at half normal speed without penalty.<br />
<br />
<span id="Uncanny Dodge"></span>'''Uncanny Dodge ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
Starting at 5<sup>th</sup> level, a courier retains her [[Dexterity]] bonus to [[Armor Class]] (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. She still loses any Dexterity bonus to Armor Class if immobilized.<br />
<br />
If the character gains uncanny dodge from a second class, she instead gains [[#Improved Uncanny Dodge|improved uncanny dodge]].<br />
<br />
<span id="Improved Evasion"></span>'''Improved Evasion ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
Starting at 7<sup>th</sup> level, if a courier ''fails'' a Reflex [[saving throw]] against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes half damage. Improved evasion can be used only if the courier is wearing light or no [[armor]], and is not [[helpless]], [[cowering]], or [[stunned]].<br />
<br />
Acquiring improved evasion from multiple classes provides no additional advantage.<br />
<br />
<span id="Freedom of Movement"></span>'''Freedom of Movement ([[Su]]):'''<br />
Starting at 8<sup>th</sup> level, a courier can ignore natural and magical effects that impede movement as if affected by the spell [[freedom of movement]]. This [[supernatural]] ability functions up to 10 minutes per day times the courier's [[character level]].<br />
<br />
<span id="Improved Uncanny Dodge"></span>'''Improved Uncanny Dodge ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
Starting at 9<sup>th</sup> level, a courier can no longer be [[flanked]], since she can react to opponents on opposite sides of her as easily as she can react to a single attacker. This defense denies [[rogues]] (and other classes) the ability to use flank attacks to [[sneak attack]] the courier, unless the rogue is at least four levels higher than the courier.<br />
<br />
If a character gains uncanny dodge from a second class, the levels from those classes stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.<br />
<br />
<span id="Spells"></span>'''Spells:'''<br />
A courier casts [[arcane]] spells, which are drawn from the [[#Table: Courier Spell List|Courier Spell List]]. She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a courier must have a [[Charisma]] score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The [[Difficulty Class]] for a saving throw against a courier's spell is 10 + the spell level + the courier's [[Charisma]] modifier.<br />
<br />
Like other spellcasters, a courier can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on [[#Table: The Courier|Table: The Courier]]. In addition, she receives [[bonus spells]] per day if she has a high Charisma score. When [[#Table: The Courier|Table: The Courier]] indicates that the courier gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to based on her Charisma score for that spell level.<br />
<br />
The courier's selection of spells is extremely limited, as indicated on [[#Table: The Courier|Table: The Courier]]. Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a courier knows is not affected by her Charisma score; the numbers on [[#Table: The Courier|Table: The Courier]] are fixed.<br />
<br />
At each even level, a courier can choose to learn a new spell in place of one she already knows. In effect, the courier "loses" the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell's level must be the same level or lower than that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level courier spell the courier can cast. A courier may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that she gains new spells known for the level.<br />
<br />
<span id="Table: Courier Spell List"></span><br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|+ style="text-align: left;" | Table: Courier Spell List<br />
|-<br />
! Level !! style="text-align: left;" | Spells<br />
|-<br />
| 1<sup>st</sup> || style="text-align: left;" | [[comprehend languages]], [[detect magic]], [[disguise self]], [[endure elements]], [[expeditious retreat]], [[feather fall]], [[SRD:Jump (Spell)|jump]], [[knock]], [[SRD:Light (Spell)|light]], [[longstrider]], [[message]], [[obscure object]], [[obscuring mist]], [[pass without trace]], [[sanctuary]]<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 2<sup>nd</sup> || style="text-align: left;" | [[blink]], [[blur]], [[SRD:Cat's Grace (Spell)|cat's grace]], [[color spray]], [[SRD:Darkvision (Spell)|darkvision]], [[fog cloud]], [[hypnotic pattern]], [[illusory script]], [[invisibility]], [[levitate]], [[misdirection]], [[see invisibility]], [[SRD:Shield (Spell)|shield]], [[spider climb]], [[tongues]]<br />
|-<br />
| 3<sup>rd</sup> || style="text-align: left;" | [[alter self]], [[arcane sight]], [[clairaudience/clairvoyance]], [[fly]], [[gaseous form]], [[haste]], [[hold person]], [[nondetection]], [[phantom steed]], [[protection from energy]], [[web]]<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 4<sup>th</sup> || style="text-align: left;" | [[dimension door]], [[dispel magic]], [[freedom of movement]], [[greater invisibility]], [[rainbow pattern]], [[stinking cloud]]<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==The Epic Courier==<br />
<br />
TBD<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Classes|Classes]] &rarr; [[User Prestige Classes|Prestige Classes]]<small> [[User Prestige Classes with Descriptions|with description]]</small><br />
[[Category:C]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Prestige Class]]<br />
[[Category:Skilled]]<br />
[[Category:Separate Spellcasting]]<br />
[[Category:Arcane Spellcasting]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=D%26D_Wiki:Sandbox&diff=114370D&D Wiki:Sandbox2007-06-27T14:23:05Z<p>Cuthalion: signature</p>
<hr />
<div>This is a sandbox. It will be cleaned around once every three hours. Play around in this sandbox to see how things look, however please do not edit above the line!<br />
<br />
''Last cleaned at Wed Jun 27 06:00:02 2007 by [[User:Dandwiki Helper|Dandwiki Helper]]. <sub>([http://www.dandwiki.com/cgi-bin/sandbox.cgi clean the sandbox now])</sub>''<br />
----<br />
<br />
&ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 08:23, 27 June 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Courier_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)&diff=114369Courier (3.5e Prestige Class)2007-06-27T14:22:07Z<p>Cuthalion: /* Prerequisites */ comment out comment</p>
<hr />
<div><dplc>Courier (DnD Prestige Class)|{{PrC Description|Courier|9|Skilled, Separate Spellcasting|When it absolutely, positively, has to be there overnight.|10|5}}</dplc><br />
{{Balance|9}}<br />
{{author|author_name=Cuthalion|date_created=February 13, 2007|status=Completed}}<br />
<br />
=Courier=<br />
<br />
''The Couriers are an elite guild who boast that they can get a message or package to anyone, anywhere, in record time – for an appropriate fee. Requirements for admission to the guild are rigorous, but any courier can expect all reasonable help from any guild outpost, including a fresh mount, supplies, even an armed escort if warranted. In return, for each job the courier tithes 10% of all proceeds to the guild, or cost of guild expenses, whichever is higher. Any non-guild member who works a job with a guild member is also expected to tithe 10%.''<br />
<br />
''Outposts are typically found in towns about a day's ride apart in civilized country, more sparsely in border regions. Outposts are also sources of information regarding potential contracts, available freely to all guild members.''<br />
<br />
''Couriers remain steadfastly neutral in any conflict. Anyone who knowingly harms a courier, other than in self-defense, can expect at the very least a guild boycott, possibly more severe retribution.''<br />
<br />
''Because of their wide array of skills, couriers are occasionally hired for extra sensitive missions, such as spying or assassination. Moonlighters act without guild aid and protection, but they are still expected to tithe 10% of proceeds to the guild.''<br />
<br />
''Couriers come from virtually all classes, with the exception of [[paladins]], whose code of honor is incompatible with courier neutrality.''<br />
<br />
==Prerequisites==<br />
<br />
* '''Alignment:''' Any neutral.<br />
* '''Feats:''' [[Dodge]], [[Endurance]], [[Run]].<br />
* '''Skills:''' [[Gather Information]] 8 ranks, [[Hide]] 8 ranks, [[Knowledge]] (geography) 4 ranks, [[Move Silently]] 8 ranks, [[Speak Language]] any 4 languages.<br />
* '''Base Speed:''' 40 feet in any [[movement mode]]. <!-- <small>''This requirement should be reduced to 30 feet unless your campaign uses the [http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#quick Quick] trait or has another relatively easy way to increase base land speed.''</small> I'm commenting this out because of the existence of Barbarian and Scout classes. Halflings may still find it difficult to qualify, but that's the nature of the beast. ~~~~ --><br />
* '''Special:''' 2000 GP one-time referral fee. A character cannot take levels in both courier and [[courier mage]].<br />
<br />
<br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|+ style="text-align: right;" | <div style="float: left;" id="Table: The Courier">Table: The Courier</div> Hit Die: d6<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[Base Attack Bonus (terminology)|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[Saving Throw (SRD Rules)|Saving Throws]]<br />
! rowspan="2" style="text-align: left;" | Special<br />
! colspan="4" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]<br />
! colspan="4" | [[#Spells|Spells Known]]<br />
|-<br />
! Fort !! Ref !! Will<br />
! 1<sup>st</sup> !! 2<sup>nd</sup> !! 3<sup>rd</sup> !! 4<sup>th</sup><br />
! 1<sup>st</sup> !! 2<sup>nd</sup> !! 3<sup>rd</sup> !! 4<sup>th</sup><br />
|-<br />
| 1<sup>st</sup> ||+0||+0||+2||+2|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Sense of Direction|Sense of direction]] ||0||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||2||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||&nbsp;<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 2<sup>nd</sup> ||+1||+0||+3||+3|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Fast Movement|Fast movement]] +10 ||1||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||3||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||&nbsp;<br />
|-<br />
| 3<sup>rd</sup> ||+2||+1||+3||+3|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Evasion|Evasion]] ||2||0||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||3||2||&nbsp;||&nbsp;<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 4<sup>th</sup> ||+3||+1||+4||+4|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Unbreakable Stride|Unbreakable stride]] ||3||1||&nbsp;||&nbsp;||4||3||&nbsp;||&nbsp;<br />
|-<br />
| 5<sup>th</sup> ||+3||+1||+4||+4|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Uncanny Dodge|Uncanny dodge]] ||3||2||0||&nbsp;||4||3||2||&nbsp;<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 6<sup>th</sup> ||+4||+2||+5||+5|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Fast Movement|Fast movement]] +20 ||3||3||1||&nbsp;||4||4||3||&nbsp;<br />
|-<br />
| 7<sup>th</sup> ||+5||+2||+5||+5|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Improved Evasion|Improved evasion]] ||3||3||2||0||4||4||3||2<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 8<sup>th</sup> ||+6||+2||+6||+6|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Freedom of Movement|Freedom of movement]] ||3||3||3||1||4||4||4||3<br />
|-<br />
| 9<sup>th</sup> ||+6||+3||+6||+6|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Improved Uncanny Dodge|Improved uncanny dodge]] ||3||3||3||2||4||4||4||3<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 10<sup>th</sup> ||+7||+3||+7||+7|| style="text-align: left;" | [[#Fast Movement|Fast movement]] +30 ||3||3||3||3||4||4||4||4<br />
|}<br />
<br />
'''Class Skills (6 + Int modifier per level):'''<br />
[[Balance]] ([[Dex]]), [[Bluff]] ([[Cha]]), [[Climb]] ([[Str]]), [[Concentration]] ([[Con]]), [[Craft]] (any) ([[Int]]), [[Decipher Script]] ([[Int]]), [[Diplomacy]] ([[Cha]]), [[Disguise]] ([[Cha]]), [[Escape Artist]] ([[Dex]]), [[Forgery]] ([[Int]]), [[Gather Information]] ([[Cha]]), [[Hide]] ([[Dex]]), [[Jump]] ([[Str]]), [[Knowledge]] (any) ([[Int]]), [[Listen]] ([[Wis]]), [[Move Silently]] ([[Dex]]), [[Ride]] ([[Dex]]), [[Sense Motive]] ([[Wis]]), [[Speak Language]] (any) (n/a), [[Spot]] ([[Wis]]), [[Survival]] ([[Wis]]), [[Swim]] ([[Str]]), and [[Use Rope]] ([[Dex]]).<br />
<br />
==Class Features==<br />
<br />
''All of the following are class features of the courier:''<br />
<br />
<span id="Weapon and Armor Proficiency"></span>'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:'''<br />
A courier does not gain any proficiency with weapons or armor.<br />
<br />
<span id="Sense of Direction"></span>'''Sense of Direction ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
A courier has an uncanny knack for determining direction. The character can determine, at will, which way is north, and can infallibly retrace or backtrack any path she has taken before.<br />
<br />
<span id="Fast Movement"></span>'''Fast Movement ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
At 2<sup>nd</sup> level, a courier gains a +10 enhancement to base speed in her primary [[movement mode]], when wearing light or no [[armor]] and carrying no more than a [[Encumbrance|light load]]. This bonus increases to +20 at 6<sup>th</sup> level and +30 at 10<sup>th</sup> level. The bonus stacks with the fast movement ability of any other class.<br />
<br />
<span id="Evasion"></span>'''Evasion ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
Starting at 3<sup>rd</sup> level, if a courier makes a successful Reflex [[saving throw]] against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the courier is wearing light or no [[armor]], and is not [[helpless]], [[cowering]], or [[stunned]].<br />
<br />
If the courier already has evasion from another class, she instead gains [[#Improved Evasion|improved evasion]].<br />
<br />
<span id="Unbreakable Stride"></span>'''Unbreakable Stride ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
Starting at 4<sup>th</sup> level, a courier can move through any natural terrain, even underwater, at her normal speed. This ability does not prevent natural damage (e.g. from lava), does not counteract any magical effects, and does not impart any other special abilities (e.g. breathing underwater).<br />
<br />
Furthermore, the courier can move at full normal speed without penalty to [[Balance]], [[Hide]], [[Move Silently]], or [[Tumble]] checks, and can [[Climb]] at half normal speed without penalty.<br />
<br />
<span id="Uncanny Dodge"></span>'''Uncanny Dodge ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
Starting at 5<sup>th</sup> level, a courier retains her [[Dexterity]] bonus to [[Armor Class]] (if any) regardless of being caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. She still loses any Dexterity bonus to Armor Class if immobilized.<br />
<br />
If the character gains uncanny dodge from a second class, she instead gains [[#Improved Uncanny Dodge|improved uncanny dodge]].<br />
<br />
<span id="Improved Evasion"></span>'''Improved Evasion ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
Starting at 7<sup>th</sup> level, if a courier ''fails'' a Reflex [[saving throw]] against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes half damage. Improved evasion can be used only if the courier is wearing light or no [[armor]], and is not [[helpless]], [[cowering]], or [[stunned]].<br />
<br />
Acquiring improved evasion from multiple classes provides no additional advantage.<br />
<br />
<span id="Freedom of Movement"></span>'''Freedom of Movement ([[Su]]):'''<br />
Starting at 8<sup>th</sup> level, a courier can ignore natural and magical effects that impede movement as if affected by the spell [[freedom of movement]]. This [[supernatural]] ability functions up to 10 minutes per day times the courier's [[character level]].<br />
<br />
<span id="Improved Uncanny Dodge"></span>'''Improved Uncanny Dodge ([[Ex]]):'''<br />
Starting at 9<sup>th</sup> level, a courier can no longer be [[flanked]], since she can react to opponents on opposite sides of her as easily as she can react to a single attacker. This defense denies [[rogues]] (and other classes) the ability to use flank attacks to [[sneak attack]] the courier, unless the rogue is at least four levels higher than the courier.<br />
<br />
If a character gains uncanny dodge from a second class, the levels from those classes stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.<br />
<br />
<span id="Spells"></span>'''Spells:'''<br />
A courier casts [[arcane]] spells, which are drawn from the [[#Table: Courier Spell List|Courier Spell List]]. She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, a courier must have a [[Charisma]] score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The [[Difficulty Class]] for a saving throw against a courier's spell is 10 + the spell level + the courier's [[Charisma]] modifier.<br />
<br />
Like other spellcasters, a courier can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on [[#Table: The Courier|Table: The Courier]]. In addition, she receives [[bonus spells]] per day if she has a high Charisma score. When [[#Table: The Courier|Table: The Courier]] indicates that the courier gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to based on her Charisma score for that spell level.<br />
<br />
The courier's selection of spells is extremely limited, as indicated on [[#Table: The Courier|Table: The Courier]]. Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a courier knows is not affected by her Charisma score; the numbers on [[#Table: The Courier|Table: The Courier]] are fixed.<br />
<br />
At each even level, a courier can choose to learn a new spell in place of one she already knows. In effect, the courier "loses" the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell's level must be the same level or lower than that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level courier spell the courier can cast. A courier may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that she gains new spells known for the level.<br />
<br />
<span id="Table: Courier Spell List"></span><br />
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" class="d20"<br />
|+ style="text-align: left;" | Table: Courier Spell List<br />
|-<br />
! Level !! style="text-align: left;" | Spells<br />
|-<br />
| 1<sup>st</sup> || style="text-align: left;" | [[comprehend languages]], [[detect magic]], [[disguise self]], [[endure elements]], [[expeditious retreat]], [[feather fall]], [[SRD:Jump (Spell)|jump]], [[knock]], [[SRD:Light (Spell)|light]], [[longstrider]], [[message]], [[obscure object]], [[obscuring mist]], [[pass without trace]], [[sanctuary]]<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 2<sup>nd</sup> || style="text-align: left;" | [[blink]], [[blur]], [[SRD:Cat's Grace (Spell)|cat's grace]], [[color spray]], [[SRD:Darkvision (Spell)|darkvision]], [[fog cloud]], [[hypnotic pattern]], [[illusory script]], [[invisibility]], [[levitate]], [[misdirection]], [[see invisibility]], [[SRD:Shield (Spell)|shield]], [[spider climb]], [[tongues]]<br />
|-<br />
| 3<sup>rd</sup> || style="text-align: left;" | [[alter self]], [[arcane sight]], [[clairaudience/clairvoyance]], [[fly]], [[gaseous form]], [[haste]], [[hold person]], [[nondetection]], [[phantom steed]], [[protection from energy]], [[web]]<br />
|- class="even"<br />
| 4<sup>th</sup> || style="text-align: left;" | [[dimension door]], [[dispel magic]], [[freedom of movement]], [[greater invisibility]], [[rainbow pattern]], [[stinking cloud]]<br />
|-<br />
|}<br />
<br />
==The Epic Courier==<br />
<br />
TBD<br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
Back to [[Main Page]] &rarr; [[Dungeons and Dragons]] &rarr; [[DnD Classes|Classes]] &rarr; [[User Prestige Classes|Prestige Classes]]<small> [[User Prestige Classes with Descriptions|with description]]</small><br />
[[Category:C]]<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Prestige Class]]<br />
[[Category:Skilled]]<br />
[[Category:Separate Spellcasting]]<br />
[[Category:Arcane Spellcasting]]</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Acrobatic_Attack_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=114323Acrobatic Attack (3.5e Feat)2007-06-26T23:29:58Z<p>Cuthalion: /* Acrobatic Attack [General] */ remove Dodge prereq</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author|author_name=Cuthalion|date_created=02/05/07|status=Finished}}<br />
<div class="supplement"><br />
__NOTOC__<br />
===Acrobatic Attack [General]===<br />
<br />
You can use acrobatic maneuvers to get around an opponent's defenses.<br />
<br />
=====Prerequisites=====<br />
<br />
[[Dexterity (SRD Term)|Dex]] 13, [[Acrobatic (SRD Feat)|Acrobatic]], [[Tumble (SRD Skill)|Tumble]] 8 ranks.<br />
<br />
=====Benefit=====<br />
<br />
As part of a [[Move_Actions_%28SRD_Rules%29#Move|move]] action, you may make a [[Tumble]] check [[Using_Skills_(SRD_Rules)#Opposed_Checks|opposed]] by your target's [[Tumble]] check. Your target receives its base attack bonus as a bonus to its roll, along with any other applicable modifiers. If you succeed, your target is denied its [[Defenses_(MSRD)#Dexterity_Modifier|Dexterity bonus]] to AC (if any) for the next [[Standard_Actions_%28SRD_Rules%29#Attack|melee attack]] you make against it during the same round. If you fail, you fall [[Prone_(SRD_Term)|prone]] in your destination square.<br />
<br />
=====Special=====<br />
<br />
A [[fighter]] may select Acrobatic Attack as one of his [[fighter bonus feats]].<br />
<br />
----<br />
{|<br />
| Back to [[Dungeons and Dragons]] ||->[[DnD Feats]]||-> [[DnD General Feats]]<br />
|-<br />
| &nbsp; || &nbsp; ||-> [[DnD Fighter Feats]]||-> [[DnD Melee Attack Fighter Feats]]<br />
|}<br />
[[Category:DnD]]<br />
[[Category:Feat]]<br />
[[Category:General Feat]]<br />
[[Category:Fighter Bonus Feat]]<br />
[[Category:Tumble Feat]]<br />
</div></div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Cuthalion&diff=114314User talk:Cuthalion2007-06-26T20:59:39Z<p>Cuthalion: /* MoI */ delete</p>
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<div>==MoI==<br />
<br />
{{Messages of Interest|messages=<br />
}}<br />
<br />
==Welcome to D&D Wiki== <br />
<br />
Hello {{PAGENAME}}, and welcome to D&D Wiki! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like D&D Wiki and decide to stay. I am the owner of the site, and if you have a question feel free to ask me, however when contacting anyone on D&D Wiki through talk pages please sign your name using four tildes <nowiki>(~~~~)</nowiki>; this will automatically produce your name and the date. Also, if you want to help D&D Wiki but just don't know how [http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=User_talk:Green_Dragon&action=edit&section=new drop me a note] and I'll see what I can do. However, when dropping me a note please tell me how much time you would like to spend working, how well you know the Wiki Format, and how well you know D&D. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a D&D Wikian! If you need help ask me on my talk page, or just right here. Again, welcome! --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 18:27, 4 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:Thank you. So you'll end up reading this? I'm not used to communicating by wiki.<br />
<br />
:To answer your questions:<br />
<br />
:#I'm a minimally competent wiki user, and a fast learner.<br />
:#I used to know everything there was to know about AD&D 1st & 2nd editions. I know most of what there is to read about 3.5, but have comparatively little experience in practice -- I've only really played one character in one campaign.<br />
:#I'll have to play it by ear how much time I put into it. One nice thing about wiki is you can add things whenever you feel like it. Are there particular projects you're looking for help on?<br />
:FYI, I'm quite attached to [http://www.d20srd.org/ The Hypertext d20 SRD]. It's going to be hard to switch, but the wiki advantages obviously make it worth it. ''[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 10:51, 5 February 2007 (MST)''<br />
<br />
::I will end up reading this, I am a Recent Changes patroller and I go through ''every'' edit that happens on D&D Wiki. Also. if you really want to help you can help with the [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]]. I hope you decide to help, and the [[D&D Wiki:Items to be added]] is a very good way to understand how items should be added and the correct formatting. I hope you like D&D Wiki, and I am glad your here. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:08, 5 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== NBoF ==<br />
<br />
What is your relationship with the NBoF? I am just asking because if you are part of the team, or something along those lines, I am wondering a couple things. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:36, 4 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:No, I have no affiliation with NBoF, nor any vested interest in seeing them publicized. I only found out about them a couple of days ago through this wiki. --''[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 10:56, 5 February 2007 (MST)''<br />
<br />
::Oh, ok. Thanks. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 20:08, 5 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== Colors ==<br />
<br />
Moved to: [[User talk:Cuthalion/Colors]].<br />
<br />
== Screwed up? ==<br />
<br />
Did I screw up my user talk page? I don't see either contents or messages of interest. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 11:49, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
: Okay, the contents just showed up. That's weird. --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 11:50, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:: The contents have to have at least four headers before it shows up. The messages of interest will only show up if there's at least one MoI. &mdash;[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 12:41, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
::: That explains it, thanks. Why four? How hard would it be to make this configurable? --[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] 12:43, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
:::: Don't know. I'd like to think the designers of [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki MediaWiki] produced the magic number four from the results (wish I could stop typing "resluts") of a lot of research, and extensive human factors testing, but I don't know whether or not that was actually the case. As far as determining the difficulty of making configurable, someone would have to dive into the MediaWiki code for that (or already know it). &mdash;[[User:Sledged|Sledged]] ([[User talk:Sledged|talk]]) 13:03, 12 February 2007 (MST)<br />
<br />
== WikiRPS ==<br />
<br />
Moved to: [[User talk:Cuthalion/WikiRPS]].<br />
<br />
See also: [[wikirps:|WikiRPS]].<br />
<br />
== Formatting - The Improvisor (DnD Prestige Class) ==<br />
<br />
Hello. I am wondering if you would mind doing me a favor. Recently I have not had that much time, as seen my how little I went on over the weekend. Anyway, because of this lack of going on D&D Wiki I have a lot to catch up on here. So, I am wondering if you would mind formatting [[The Improvisor (DnD Prestige Class)]]. I am asking you for a couple of reasons. One is that I am sure you know formatting rather well and will make it accessible and good looking. Anyway, if you could format it it would mean a lot to me. Is this possible? --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 16:49, 23 April 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:Sure, I can do this.<br />
:#Have the formatting standards been finalized? I presume virtually everything that applies to base classes would also apply to prestige classes. It would be annoying to have to reformat it again in two weeks.<br />
:#Do you prefer not to ask the original author?<br />
:&ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 13:04, 24 April 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::A couple things. No the formatting standards have not been finalized, however they only apply to base classes and before any PrC's get formatted the base classes will get a work over. Anyway, the real reason I am asking you is because right now this PrC is inaccessible and it would be good if it was made accessible. Also no, one does not need to ask the authors permission to format something (I know, you may not like this.... I hope I am not offending you again....) --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 22:34, 24 April 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:::No offense taken. A central part of the wiki concept is opening your work up to others for improvement. My question was whether it's better to make improvements yourself or ask the original author to make them, and I could argue either way on that.<br />
:::I should be able to get to it today. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 07:41, 25 April 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
::::Personally I think it is just better to take it into ones own hands. Anyway, thanks again it was very nice of you to fomat that. --[[User:Green Dragon|Green Dragon]] 12:58, 30 April 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalionhttps://www.dandwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Talk:Exterminator_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)&diff=114313Talk:Exterminator (3.5e Prestige Class)2007-06-26T20:59:12Z<p>Cuthalion: replies</p>
<hr />
<div>==Name==<br />
From the power level, this class looks good. I'm not convinced on the description and flavour, though. First of all, "Exterminator" is too general as a name. "Elfhunter" "Pointy Ear Exterminator", that would sound better. --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 11:43, 26 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I always end up changing the name of a new class about three times until I finally find one I like. I chose "Exterminator" because it conveys the idea that (as everyone knows) elves are just pesky vermin to be squashed. In case it's not obvious, it's specifically designed to neutralize the Darkwood Stalker. How about "Darkwood Exterminator"? &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 14:59, 26 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
==Sissy==<br />
The other thing I'm worried about, the methods of this class are too sneaky and sissy-ish for a proper orc. An orc prestige class should be more savage. He doesn't have to be a suicidal slayer that runs into the elven village screaming, hurling bloody axes and slaughtering everything in range, but you should add some more brutality. How about drinking the blood of slain elven foes to become stronger? Or the ability to create a poison that is especially effective against elves? Or cutting off elven ears to create a trophy that works as a magic item (my favorite)? --[[User:Mkill|Mkill]] 11:43, 26 June 2007 (MDT)<br />
<br />
:I should start off by saying I ascribe to a picture of an orc who is less like Tolkien and more like a later Klingon. This class specifically follows up the idea of the Swift & Silent killer from Forgotten Realms. Even so, you have a valid point. What specific changes would you suggest? Feel free to add them in if you can do so without disrupting the basic structure of the class. &ndash;[[User:Cuthalion|Cúthalion]] <small>([[User talk:Cuthalion|talk]])</small> 14:59, 26 June 2007 (MDT)</div>Cuthalion